KLEEN Cut's back on the supplements but not the progress!

Going to try to schedule for Saturday.
 
Man, if it's not one thing it's another. Dang elbow. Heal up quick!
 
Yah Chris has had a rough run, don't see any quit in him though. If you're not prepared to fail you will never be successful.
 
Fall down seven times, get up eight - Samurai
 
Hyde said:
Hope you feel better - make the time to go get your ART done!
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So ready for this, I am going to make my appointment today.
eddieaz said:
Man, if it's not one thing it's another. Dang elbow. Heal up quick!
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Yeah, but I brought this one on myself with a bit of stupidity. Went to the gym angry and added 30 lbs to all my lifts to get the aggression out. I knew better but the animal was already loose in the gym.
DreamWeaver said:
Yah Chris has had a rough run, don't see any quit in him though. If you're not prepared to fail you will never be successful.
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This past 2 years has been pretty brutal for me. Between injuries and some heavy situations going on in my life the lifestyle took a back seat longer than I remember it doing so since probably 2006. As a matter of fact this is the only time I have fallen off like this but I refuse to stay down.
kenpoengineer said:
Fall down seven times, get up eight - Samurai
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Exactly, it is taking a bit more to get back up and get back into the fight but I am up and blinking the haze out. Trying to count the refs fingers and assure them that I am not done yet! I can handle more!

Had an unexpected attend to the daughter night last night. The wife's stomach was not being nice to her and last night was a busy night at dance. So I had to take Trinity to dance class and stick around for them to try on their costumes for recital. Then afterwords Trinity had a private lesson for her Featured Partner dance for the recital. I did not make it back home until after 9:00. So no chance to lift unfortunately, heck I was passing out by 9:30. At least I did some walking at lunch.

Tonight will be a nice leg workout. I will more than likely concentrate on front squats, back squats and lunges. I am going to try to avoid doing anything I have to grip heavily for right now. Saturday I will do my Pull work even if I have to get creative to keep the elbow out of it. I have some bands I can use by putting around the elbows and doing the movements. I may have to video some of whatever I come up with.
 
You are one strong fella and in every way! Always love your attitude!
 
Trinity is in dance as well as martial arts, right? That samurai proverb should be changed to something CTFletcher would say "Fall down? Get up!!!!!!!!!!"
 
DreamWeaver said:
I know Chris is a fighter, most very honorable men are...
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Thanks Doug, feeling is mutual!
kenpoengineer said:
Trinity is in dance as well as martial arts, right? That samurai proverb should be changed to something CTFletcher would say "Fall down? Get up!!!!!!!!!!"
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Yes she is and just got moved to the competition class in Gymnastics too. She is a real go getter.

I have been extremely busy, took on some new responsibilities for work. I have still been lifting though. Been doing a modified program where I do one set to near exhaustion with 20% of my max then wait 30 seconds and start my "normal" work sets. Something I read off of Ergo-log.com on how it increased both strength and growth. So far it has been a saviing grace for my elbows because there is so much blood in the muscles joints and tendons after that first set I am far more than just warmed up when I start picking up anything that could hurt me. Also my working weights are definitely much lower after that set.

Have been doing kind of full body type stuff with 3-4 work sets after the initial pre-exhaustion set.

Workout from Tuesday.

Incline Bench 65 lbs x about 65-70 reps I lost count, "rest" 30 seconds aka add weight then 155xform failure, rest 30-45 seconds and 155x form failure, rest 1 minute and hit 155x form failure

Supine Grip BB Bent over rows - same weights and patterns

ATG Squats - 85 x 60-65 reps - "rest" 30 seconds aka add weight then 175x form failure, rest 30-45 seconds and 175x form failure, rest 1 minute and hit 175x form failure

Thursdays lift

Standing Military Press 45 lbs x 60ish "rest" 30 seconds aka add weight then 95xform failure, rest 30-45 seconds and 95x form failure, rest 1 minute and hit 95x form failure

Resistance Band Straight Arm Lat Pull Downs - light bands x 60-70 "rest" 30 seconds green bands x form failure, rest 30-45 seconds and green bands x form failure, rest 1 minute and hit green bands x form failure

Resistance band Rear Delt Flies - light bands x 50ish "rest" 30 seconds green bands x form failure, rest 30-45 seconds and green bands x form failure, rest 1 minute and hit green bands x form failure then did partials to failure

Body weight Bulgarian Split Squats - 3 sets to failure each side with no rest between alternating - "rest" 30 seconds then do Barbell Lunges 45 x form failure, rest 30-45 seconds and 45 x form failure, rest 1 minute and 45 x form failure

Barbell Curls - 45 x AMRAP for 2 sets with 1 minute rest

Triceps Push Ups 2 sets AMRAP with 1 minute rest between

These have honestly been some of the most exhausting workouts I have done in a long time! I end with a MASSIVE PUMP, covered in sweat, and typically holding back puking. You would think with the working weights being low that I would be doing high reps on the to failure sets but typically they end up starting somewhere between 10-12 reps and drop off with each successive set. Exhausting the slow twitch fibers forces the body to recruit the fast twitch muscles from the beginning of those successive work sets and also creates a metabolic situation in the muscle that spurs anabolism, not too mention the EPOC from these workouts is very high.

I am going to hit up a workout here in an hour or so. I might go to the gym and try this method with Neutral Grip Lat Pull Downs, HS Decline Bench, Leg Press, machine side raises, preacher curls and OH Rope Triceps ext...
 
Hyde said:
That sounds SO brutal.....you trying to lean out? Cuz that's a good way to do it, no doubt
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kenpoengineer said:
This x2!
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Yes, I am trying to lean up a bit, and get my conditioning in order. I have leaned up a little bit and increased my muscle mass with the muscle memory so I am starting to look better and feel better about my situation. Right now I am 5'8" 216, my 34's are snug but fit, and my 36's are loose in the waist and tight on the butt and thighs. I want to get back down into a 32 waist.

I think I found that during my recovery I have a 2 time per week limit on lifting per body part, regardless of what type of workout I do. Well at least with the stuff that taxes the elbow in any way. My elbow inflamed a bit after my workout Saturday but the workout felt so good. I made the mistake of not icing the elbow directly after the workout so that is probably a large part of it. So I am sitting here today with my wearable cold pack on it.

I am really enjoying incorporating the banded exercises too. They really bring a new feel and also just being creative makes it more fun.

My workout this Saturday was a nice one though.

Decline Bench - 75 x 70ish reps 30 seconds rest then 175x 3 sets to failure with 30-60 seconds rest between sets

Orange Band Neutral Grip Pull Downs - 70-ish reps, 30 seconds rest then chin ups x 5, x3.5, x 3.5, x2,x1, x1, x1 x1, I wanted to ensure I got a little volume on the actual chins, so when I couldn't get more than 1 I just rested say 15 or so seconds and then did 1 rep, and repeated until I failed to get 1 full ROM rep. I kept my hands in close so not to mess with the lateral side of my elbow however these could also have been part of what lit my elbow back up a bit.

Borje Presses - 25 plates x about 30 reps, rest 30 seconds, 45 plates x failure for three sets

Rear Delt Band Flyes - thin orange band x max reps - rest 30 seconds, green bands x failure x 3 sets 30 seconds rest between.

Super Set with thick orange bands 3 rotations 30 seconds rest between rotations - bands attached to chin bar on power rack
Kneeling band curls - AMRAP
Overhead Band Triceps Extension - AMRAP

Squats - 85x Max Reps = 60-ish, - 185 x 3 sets to failure

I have to tell you my back and pecs are still sore. My legs are okay, I can tell I worked them but they are not sore like my pecs and back. It is funny if you look at my power rack right now you see a ton of bands hanging off of it.
 
Yeah, lots of reps!

Here is the link to the study regarding the high rep exhaustive set prior to your workout sets.
Invalid Link Removed

Now one could easily argue that the increase in volume was the mechanism at play here. However that does not justify the commensurate increase in strength that accompanied the growth. That has more to do with the perceived effort by the fast twitch fibers that they are having to fire from the onset of the first true work set. Muscle fibers only know tension and this causes an increased tension because the slow twitch muscle fibers are toast and offering no assistance. Plus there are metabolic factors including the lactic acid build up that spur the anabolic reaction in the muscle.

So far it is a love hate relationship with the workout because it is pretty brutal and in all honesty I am not getting to 75% of my max with my work sets. I do not have a spotter and feel that would be a bad idea. I can only imagine 75% of my 1RM would have me hitting maybe 5 reps that first set, kind of like what you saw with the chin ups.
 
Interesting. I saw an article here on AM about it the other day as well. I have implemented a few days of pre-exhaustive work, mostly on legs. I didn't like it the first time I did it, felt shaky trying to squat with tired legs!!
 
Absolutely, it is definitely not conducive to lifting moderately heavy weight afterwards. I think it would be great for the leg press or maybe hack squat, something guided, where questionable stability due to exhaustion would not be as much of a factor.
 
Yah but the amount of weight in a situation like this is all relative. You can only grit your teeth and work you reps with good form and go for the tension.
 
I wear a 34 with a belt. 32's fit in the waist but the thighs are like putting on skinny jeans. Your legs are bigger than mine so I don't know how you'll get into 32's...lol
 
turff49 said:
I wear a 34 with a belt. 32's fit in the waist but the thighs are like putting on skinny jeans. Your legs are bigger than mine so I don't know how you'll get into 32's...lol
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I always have to find relaxed fit... due to thighs too
 
That is definitely a torture type workout but whatever it takes for the gainz!!
 
Workouts definitely look/sound intense but you really never do "easy" workout either! Lol

I always joke about how tight my pants are on my calves/quads but loose in the waist! No chicken legs for sure. Lol
 
I am revisiting pre-exhaust type work with a friend of mine but not to this extent ...interesting though
 
DreamWeaver said:
Yah but the amount of weight in a situation like this is all relative. You can only grit your teeth and work you reps with good form and go for the tension.
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Yes definitely, I did really concentrate on the mind muscle connection especially in the work sets.
turff49 said:
I wear a 34 with a belt. 32's fit in the waist but the thighs are like putting on skinny jeans. Your legs are bigger than mine so I don't know how you'll get into 32's...lol
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Yeah my 36 work pants are tight on my legs, falling off in the waist. Legs aren't ridiculous but tighter than work slacks/pants typically are. I put my phone and my wallet in my pocket and they pretty much stick to the hamstrings and hig the quads with every step. Kinda of cool actually to see the quads bounce and separate with every step under my pants and then the fabric releases and hugs the other side of my thighs. LOL

In 32's I typically have to have pants tailored to fit. Honestly in 34's it is almost a requirement in order not to look ridiculous. That or spend a lot of time shopping for the wider legs pants. Tailored looks much better obviously!

wasme said:
I always have to find relaxed fit... due to thighs too
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Yes In jeans I need the relaxed fit which hug my thighs about like skinny jeans do.

Hyde said:
Don't we all
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At least in this thread!!! Nobody skipping leg day here!
BigRed1974 said:
That is definitely a torture type workout but whatever it takes for the gainz!!
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I like the torturous workouts. I love to push myself.
love2liftkat said:
Workouts definitely look/sound intense but you really never do "easy" workout either! Lol

I always joke about how tight my pants are on my calves/quads but loose in the waist! No chicken legs for sure. Lol
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Nope not at all! Time to get them taken in. Go to someone who does it for a living though, not the alterations person at the dry cleaners. Well unless you have a skilled person at your local dry cleaners. They always made my pants bunch up over my butt because they didn't taper into the waist correctly for the size of my butt. Once they mess it up like that you can't really get them fixed.


DreamWeaver said:
I am revisiting pre-exhaust type work with a friend of mine but not to this extent ...interesting though
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Yeah, I can say it works, and has generated some DOMS.

Have a full body lift planned for tonight. I haven't decided what all I am going to do but it should be fun!
 
Crushed my workout the other day, now time for another beast of one tonight. I am going to manage to find some more time n my recently crazy schedule to add in some cardio. Have a scheduled Daddy Daughter dance in my daughters recital at the end of June and I want to look my best for her. Haven't had too much of a reason to really push leaning up recently and been relatively comfortable with my progress as of late. However I don't want to look like the typical ex athletic father that will more than likely be up on stage. I know what my daughter prefers, I have conditioned her to years of me being "buff". So I might as well get my lean on for that. At least drop down a few lbs anyway.

I have an appointment Monday and next Saturday for my ART guy. He is going to work on both elbows. Should be good to go in about 2-3 visits since I didn't let it sit too long. Once he gets the fibers lined back out I will be good to go. Not being able to take NSAID's sucks because most of this I could have handled and probably corrected with the use of some good anti-inflammatory action. Rubs and what not are okay but they really don't do the same thing. I may hit up a run of healing peptides too.
 
Daddy Daughter dance man that's got to be magic. Had a great day with my daughter at the Ottawa Senators last hockey game. What a game.
 
Yeah, it will be nice and of course kept on professional quality video for all time! It is great to get to spend time with our girls. The boys are awesome too but there is something about how your little girl looks at you. It is just different. It melts your heart. Boy's are more a loving sense of pride, with a few moments of heart melting thrown in there.
 
Keep killing it brother! Daddy Daughter dance = priceless!
 
Thanks Kenpo!

I went to my ART guy Monday and he dug in deep on both elbows. He gave me some training parameters to meet / avoid while in recovery. I have 3 appointments set up over the next 2 weeks which should have me squared away. I got the call yesterday morning that I needed to drive to Louisiana again to pack up the trial site. We won and it was a huge case so that is great! Unfortunately yesterday ended up being a 15 hour work day so no chance of hitting the gym. Tonight on the other hand I WILL be lifting! It is probably better I didn't get to lift yesterday though as my elbows were still sore from the prodding. He told me a day or so off would be a good idea so it worked out nicely.

He also told me to split up my routine so I am not hitting the arm stuff more than twice a week. So I may go with a DC style chest, back width, shoulders, bach thickness, & triceps on one day and then the leg, calf, biceps and forearms type split. If not that then it will be a traditional Pull, Legs, Push type of workout. That puts multiple days between each upper body workout. Should allow for me to recover better.

He told me for now, no grip work, and use a false grip when I can, so I will be pulling the versa gripps back out. Once healed up I will start doing a little bit of grip work to strengthen the area but right now he said that would be detrimental. Said since I keep my wrists locked on all of my movements I am gripping everything much harder than I need to. That I need to allow some movement and let the wrists break a bit with some of the exercises.

I will post up what I plan to do in here. Hell I am actually going to post up my exact plan once I get it written out. I haven't done that in quite some time but now is the time to get myself working on a plan instead of merely just working.
 
Yeah, the Versa Gripps have helped me tremendously. I only use them on pulling routines like rows and heavy shrugs. Elbows have thanked me!
 
turff49 said:
Yeah, the Versa Gripps have helped me tremendously. I only use them on pulling routines like rows and heavy shrugs. Elbows have thanked me!
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Amen to Versa Gripps! Takes the strain out of the elbows and forearms. Kleen is still kicking arse in here! Nice job!
 
Bpak states that his elbow problems occurred because he did not use a full grip and by using a full grip (not tight like a handshake) his problems went away as you need to work the interior forearm muscle to support the elbow. This worked for me but my elbows weren't so far gone as it turns out. No more elbow problems now though. A couple other things also helped. I also am careful how and where I grip the bar. On bb curl for instance the elbow has a natural way it wants to move, grip the bar too close or far apart you can twist the elbow. Another thing is to press down on the bar so the angle of the elbow corrects itself, neat trick. This works with a lot of exercises.
 
turff49 said:
Yeah, the Versa Gripps have helped me tremendously. I only use them on pulling routines like rows and heavy shrugs. Elbows have thanked me!
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I used mine for 2 years and had pretty good luck, then read some conflicting information and went against that for a bit. That is when things slowly started to get bad again.
kenpoengineer said:
Amen to Versa Gripps! Takes the strain out of the elbows and forearms. Kleen is still kicking arse in here! Nice job!
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Thanks and yes giving it some hell.
DreamWeaver said:
Bpak states that his elbow problems occurred because he did not use a full grip and by using a full grip (not tight like a handshake) his problems went away as you need to work the interior forearm muscle to support the elbow. This worked for me but my elbows weren't so far gone as it turns out. No more elbow problems now though. A couple other things also helped. I also am careful how and where I grip the bar. On bb curl for instance the elbow has a natural way it wants to move, grip the bar too close or far apart you can twist the elbow. Another thing is to press down on the bar so the angle of the elbow corrects itself, neat trick. This works with a lot of exercises.
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It was actually BPak's mention that swayed me to stop using the Versa-Grips. However I think I have already done too much damage to my elbows to go too long without them. I also keep my forearms relatively tight even when doing a hook grip so it activates my arms through the elbows. So I don't think the problems are from a lack of activation in the elbow that he mentions. I just tend to recruit my forearm extensors heavily on any pulling movement.

wasme said:
I have never tried versa grips.. would they work for kroc rows going for all out failure?
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They would be great forkroc rows or any work where grip could be the limiting factor.

Hyde said:
Perfectly - they're just a brand name/style of straps, but any straps would let you do your worst on kroc rows
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This, but magic in the Versa Gripps is the way you use them. A quick tuck of the flap over the bar then grip over it give a twist like throttling a motorcycle and it is locked in tight. None of that pain in the butt wrapping the straps around the bar and trying to get it tucked in and that both hands are even... All that mess. Makes it so much easier, and releasing in a hurry is better too nothing like trying to drop a weight and have the strap get tangled, that is how I tore my labrum the last time.
 
Yah Chris I can see where the damage would be too far gone for these methods. Once you recover some then I highly recommend them though. Only you know when and where to use them.
 
I got so wrapped up in the convo I forgot to update my workout from yesterday. I kept it simple did a push workout with main focus on chest and front delts. Rest periods were short in the 30 second range.

Incline Bench Speed Work - 135x10, 155x5, 165x5, 175x3 x 4 sets, 185x3 x4 sets - I kept rest down to 30 seconds and pushed until my press was no longer explosive.

Trap Bar Shoulder Press - 95 x failure x 5 sets - The neutral grip seems to keep things feeling pretty good here.

Red Band Side Raise - 5 sets to failure including partials / pulses - my shoulders were so pumped it was crazy. I started out farther away and came in closer to extend the set.

Thin Orange Band Rear Delt Flies - 4 sets to failure including partial and pulses - by the time these were done I was looking huge!

Thick Orange Band Overhead Triceps Extension - 3 sets to failure

Thick Orange Band Triceps Extension - 3 sets to failure.
 
DreamWeaver said:
Yah Chris I can see where the damage would be too far gone for these methods. Once you recover some then I highly recommend them though. Only you know when and where to use them.
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True, I can go without them in earlier sets but once I really start pulling then I need to go ahead and use the gripps. So in doing something like MI40 that would entail starting to use them around the 2nd or 3rd work set.

Dma378 said:
Trap Bar Shoulder Press?
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I just curled it up and put it over my head.

[video=youtube;MKzLZhzx7uM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKzLZhzx7uM[/video]
 
MrKleen73 said:
True, I can go without them in earlier sets but once I really start pulling then I need to go ahead and use the gripps. So in doing something like MI40 that would entail starting to use them around the 2nd or 3rd work set.



I just curled it up and put it over my head.

[video=youtube;MKzLZhzx7uM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKzLZhzx7uM[/video]
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Nice.
 
Love how you're incorporating the bands into your workouts!!
 
love2liftkat said:
Love how you're incorporating the bands into your workouts!!
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They are great, I have been enjoying using them.
DreamWeaver said:
Bands work magic ...
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I agree they are pretty great, I do need to be careful using them on triceps, having maximal tension close to lock out is probably not doing my tendon any favors. Contemplating replacing some of that with push ups or dips for triceps. The more I play with the bands the more ways I come up with to use them.

I just bought 10 sturdy hanging hooks and am going to screw them into the framing in the garage and set up a kind of band station to be used similarly to a cable cross over station. I figure 5 hooks per side will give me plenty different angles to work from. Then I could do just about anything I could do in a cable station using the bands. :)

Have leg work today, should be fun, not sure if I am going to go into the gym or lift at home. I have been trying to do more and more at home lately.
 
bands are triceps killers with the 2 second ******* but I get you about the tendon risk
 
Bands will make her Dance!!!

Great work on using them in different ways
 
DreamWeaver said:
bands are triceps killers with the 2 second ******* but I get you about the tendon risk
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Yeah gonna see what I can do to make it work. I am a bit sore there now but nothing intolerable. Seems to be getting better.

BigRed1974 said:
Bands will make her Dance!!!

Great work on using them in different ways
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LOL, yeah they are a great tool. Once playing with them a little bit you just get more and more ideas on ways to use them.
 
I got the Cross Symmetry bands that you hook to a fence for our summer softball team so I can have them do some training at the field.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I just bought 10 sturdy hanging hooks and am going to screw them into the framing in the garage and set up a kind of band station to be used similarly to a cable cross over station. I figure 5 hooks per side will give me plenty different angles to work from. Then I could do just about anything I could do in a cable station using the bands. :)
.
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Killer idea here!
 
BigRed1974 said:
I got the Cross Symmetry bands that you hook to a fence for our summer softball team so I can have them do some training at the field.
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Cool I will have to look those up.
turff49 said:
Killer idea here!
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Thanks, I was in the middle of doing my other stuff and thought I could so make this into an entire station with about 10 hooks and a couple 2x4's to make a frame. I was at Home Depot grabbing something and saw the hooks and was like hell yeah $10 in hooks and a few 2x4's and I am good to go. Once I set it up I will take a picture of what I came up with.
 
MrKleen73 said:
T
I just bought 10 sturdy hanging hooks and am going to screw them into the framing in the garage and set up a kind of band station to be used similarly to a cable cross over station. I figure 5 hooks per side will give me plenty different angles to work from. Then I could do just about anything I could do in a cable station using the bands. :)
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Fantastic idea..
 
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