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Natty product to run with 4-AD Chrome

pjunior33

New member
Natty product to stack with 4-AD Chrome?

So I have a bottle of 1-Andro and a bottle of 4-AD.

I've never ran a PH cycle (i've run Ostarine) and was planning to run the 1-Andro and 4-Andro together.

However I dont want to have to run a SERM for PCT and i've been told you need a SERM for 1-Andro even if its only a 4-6 week cycle.

I figured I would use the bottle of 4-AD and stack it with something natty so that i can use Rev Black PCT after and not worry about anything.

What are some recommendations?
 
4-ad converts to testosterone which is even more suppressive than 1-andro (1-test) so if I were you I'd hold off on that as well
 
hmm ok -- I mean would Rev Black PCT work well enough for a cycle of 1-andro/4-ad? or should I look into a natty stack?
 
pjunior33 said:
hmm ok -- I mean would Rev Black PCT work well enough for a cycle of 1-andro/4-ad? or should I look into a natty stack?
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Natty stack. If you can't/won't get a serm or at least a better pct then go with the natty.

Frankly, you can prob get near comparable gains for a well planned 8weeker of magnitropin+Abe+Xgels with quality diet and training time since those are pretty weak compounds, especially not stacked.
 
booneman77 said:
Natty stack. If you can't/won't get a serm or at least a better pct then go with the natty.

Frankly, you can prob get near comparable gains for a well planned 8weeker of magnitropin+Abe+Xgels with quality diet and training time since those are pretty weak compounds, especially not stacked.
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I don't know I gained 22lbs off of Andromass. Many people were giving the DHEA isomers crap but it was some of the best stuff I've ever taken. What Boone mentioned is probably one of the better natty stacks out there. If you don't go with the Magnitropin pick up some Conquer and Vitality to take with the Xgels. Phenomenal a stack.
 
I would also recommend ABE and x gels for sure and then throw in something else as well. X gels are probably one of my favorite products.
 
booneman77 said:
Natty stack. If you can't/won't get a serm or at least a better pct then go with the natty.

Frankly, you can prob get near comparable gains for a well planned 8weeker of magnitropin+Abe+Xgels with quality diet and training time since those are pretty weak compounds, especially not stacked.
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I don't know about that. The West Texas A&M study was done with only 1-Andro and for 4 weeks:

The 1-Andro cycle lead to significant increases in lean body mass 6.3±1.2%, decreased the total body fat mass by 24.6±7.1%, and increased the back squat 1-RM and average strength by 14.3±1.5% and 12.8±1.1%,
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Taking a 250lb ATG squat, and adding 15% = a 37.5lb increase. No way roots and leaves will do that, IMO. But yeah, if getting a true SERM won't occur (why? Easy as getting supps) then I agree with not running it at all.
 
Since all companies that sell DHEA based PH's usually put low doses and short (30 day) cycles on their label - along with selling OTC PCT products to take along side (I'm looking at it from a product liability standpoint) - would you *most likely* be ok running an OTC "SERM" after such a mfg recommended (label) cycle? Probably.

Would I trust an OTC "SERM" after an 8 week, 2x label dosage cycle? Absolutely friggen not! :)

But it's your HPTA. Just in case everybody doesn't know this: Getting a true SERM for your animals is just as easy as ordering protein. There are even two board sponsors. What is the deal with SERM avoidance? Yeah, I know all the args about shadyness, bunk, etc... but Clomid and Nolva are practically like Creatine = everywhere for cheap. Not a lot of reason to counterfeit. Get 1 bottle each from two diff companies if you want to play it safe.
 
Take the whole cycle and get Clomid/Nolva. If your gonna "cycle" dont half a$$ it. Your not going to get much from 4-DHEA solo, anyways. Add the 1-DHEA.
 
fightbackhxc said:
I don't know I gained 22lbs off of Andromass. Many people were giving the DHEA isomers crap but it was some of the best stuff I've ever taken. What Boone mentioned is probably one of the better natty stacks out there. If you don't go with the Magnitropin pick up some Conquer and Vitality to take with the Xgels. Phenomenal a stack.
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damn thats crazy.... never heard of 22lb before ha. How much did you end up keeping post?

Frankly, I think The_Old_Guy is right on in that it's not so much taht the compounds are weak as much as its that most products are so under dosed that you'd have to double or even triple to suggested dose to see the "true" effects. And following label recommendations just wont get you there and makes an effective cycle crazy expensive.
 
The closest thing likely to really enhanced gains I've heard of and experienced comes from ARA - I use http: //orbitnutrition.com/cart/sports-supplements/molecular-nutrition-x-factor-100-softgels.html
 
MultiVitamin said:
I've seen plenty of people bounce back from 1 and 4 andro perfectly fine without a SERM
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I've heard of people bouncing back from tren without a serm too, but that doesn't make it a good idea.
 
booneman77 said:
I've heard of people bouncing back from tren without a serm too, but that doesn't make it a good idea.
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I never said it was a good idea, or even advised OP to do so. Just stating facts

OP is an adult and very able to make his own decisions. He knows the answer to his question, but has made it pretty apparent he's not interested in using a SERM. Does that mean not using a SERM is a good idea? No, but either is stacking multiple orals, not running proper supports, drinking on cycle, etc but people still do it.

If it ****s him up, he'll learn and run a SERM next time. If not, he got away with it. Either way I can tell you his mind is already made up lol
 
What is wrong with SERM Rebirth though? I thought it was legit, didn't someone cycle trest and a bunch of other stuff and rebounded fine with it?
 
i guess i just want to run something that doesn't require a SERM , i wan't to be able to enjoy drinks this summer, you shouldn't drink while on a SERM right? also, SERM's themselves have sides?
 
pjunior33 said:
i guess i just want to run something that doesn't require a SERM , i wan't to be able to enjoy drinks this summer, you shouldn't drink while on a SERM right? also, SERM's themselves have sides?
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SERMs are not technically OTC and do have potential side effects. They are however effective at what they are designed to do. If you want to avoid sides then check out some of the natty products others have mentioned. Personally, I like the idea of running ABE+Ep1c Unleashed+Forskolin 95
 
pjunior33 said:
i guess i just want to run something that doesn't require a SERM , i wan't to be able to enjoy drinks this summer, you shouldn't drink while on a SERM right? also, SERM's themselves have sides?
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You shouldn't drink while running any oral... they get processed in your liver and thus stress it... Serms too but the cycle is an even bigger issue.

As for rebirth, the only bloodwork I've seen was (as you stated) after a crazy long and harsh cycle, but after 1 month the results were eh at best... test was only at like 157 or something like that...
 
booneman77 said:
As for rebirth, the only bloodwork I've seen was (as you stated) after a crazy long and harsh cycle, but after 1 month the results were eh at best... test was only at like 157 or something like that...
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...and, if you search out posts from Fit1967, he had bloodwork done multiple times while on Clomid and showed Test in the (IIRC) 1200's. I'll take Clomid :)
 
booneman77 said:
damn thats crazy.... never heard of 22lb before ha. How much did you end up keeping post?

Frankly, I think The_Old_Guy is right on in that it's not so much taht the compounds are weak as much as its that most products are so under dosed that you'd have to double or even triple to suggested dose to see the "true" effects. And following label recommendations just wont get you there and makes an effective cycle crazy expensive.
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Quite a bit actually...since its a DHEA isomer I ran it 8 weeks.
 
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