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Best muscle perserving supps to date

Kickstart7

Kickstart7

Well-known member
Well it's self explanatory, I'd like to hear some opinions.
 
goodvibes said:
This is a timely thread, about to hit my cutting season and I fear muscle loss more than anything.
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If your worried then why cut? You'll be dreading it most likely obviously. You could cut slow down calories to 200-400 below maintenance then slowly bulk to increase 50-80 calories each weeks mostly from carbs. Anyways no matter what you do, DO NOT JUST CUT OUT ALOT OF CALORIES RIGHT AWAY, it's a slow process and is minimal fat gain. Or include carb cycling and that will help too. Is not hard tbh, it's just putting the diet principles the work 105% and making the best of it.
 
baxtecal said:
If your worried then why cut? You'll be dreading it most likely obviously. You could cut slow down calories to 200-400 below maintenance then slowly bulk to increase 50-80 calories each weeks mostly from carbs. Anyways no matter what you do, DO NOT JUST CUT OUT ALOT OF CALORIES RIGHT AWAY, it's a slow process and is minimal fat gain. Or include carb cycling and that will help too. Is not hard tbh, it's just putting the diet principles the work 105% and making the best of it.
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I'm familiar of how to recomp and cut properly. Thanks for the concern
 
Lol instead of pimping some bro-supps I'm just gonna tell you the best is your diet, stay consistent with it and you will not lose anything
 
High protein diet
No senseless long LISS while cutting
HICA
Leucine

My single supplement recommendation is hands down Ergonine though. Its most of the best proven ingredients to both build and hold onto muscle packed into one supplement.

On top of creatine, betaine, and Ferulic acid being myogenic, HICA is a potent stimulus of muscle growth or while in a deficit retention (this is studied), and many other ingredients work to give energy to working muscles resulting in less breakdown, such as LCLT, which also helps shuttle glutamine to muscle as fuel instead of your muscle tissue
 
Thanks guys!
 
I am going to go with proper diet and good old hica like said above. Diet first though, and maybe throw Bcaas in there
 
Op is asking Best supps,

So glutamine, hica, bcaas intra workout and even throughout the day.

I personally like the good old desicated liver pills, there cheap and effective, but some people dont wanna take it back to the old school or have to take a bunch of horse pills lol
 
In my experience: hydrolized whey. Not only am I preserving muscle but also having very little appetite from going from all whole food protein to incorporating some hydro whey. I have never had the same results from regular protein or bcaa/eaa or a combo of both. But it could be just me.
 
machinehead said:
In my experience: hydrolized whey. Not only am I preserving muscle but also having very little appetite from going from all whole food protein to incorporating some hydro whey. I have never had the same results from regular protein or bcaa/eaa or a combo of both. But it could be just me.
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The data shows hydro whey is actually the poorest choice you can make for muscle preservation as far as protein powders are concerned. This is because it is rapidly metabolized and converted to glucose rather then used for anabolism/anti-catabolism

Human data for preserving muscle in a deficit:

HICA
Forskolin
HMB-FA
 
I'll stick with ergonine and look into some of these other suggestions. Always love hearing what you guys have to say
 
I think Ergonine + Forskolin is in my cuts from now on
 
mr.cooper69 said:
The data shows hydro whey is actually the poorest choice you can make for muscle preservation as far as protein powders are concerned. This is because it is rapidly metabolized and converted to glucose rather then used for anabolism/anti-catabolism
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Sure, and this is why I find my experience so baffling.
 
Keep protein high. Keep fat within range and manipulate carbs to suit the deficit.
 
huxley309 said:
This along with some PA. Ostarine for me at 15mg was very good for a bit of recomp.
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Gonna order soy lecithin granules. I have some osta. The unsure unique effects of osta scare me off since I just completed pct or that'd be choice #1 with E9
 
I'm not an Evomuse rep but between MyoSynergy and Strafe, you can't go wrong with what you're looking for.
 
baxtecal said:
Then your shouldn't be so worried about losing muscle if you know what your doing.
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I'm doing a team conditioning , workouts are gruesome and changed all the time. There's no way to tell how much I'm burning one day to the next. It's very hard to figure out how many calories I'll need everyday. That's why I'm relying on the extra aid or supplement
 
HMB (Ca or FA probably doesn't matter too much, though anecdotally, Ca you would probably dose it @ 6 grams a day rather than 3 grams).
 
Kickstart7 said:
Gonna order soy lecithin granules. I have some osta. The unsure unique effects of osta scare me off since I just completed pct or that'd be choice #1 with E9
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We have the same goals and almost the same situation there bro. I came from pct 6 weeks ago and not ready for another cycle yet so for myself my choice is set:

Recompadrol, E9, PA, Ara, leucine and f95/anabeta elite. Second half to push for single digit I'm hitting some sarms with eca.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
The data shows hydro whey is actually the poorest choice you can make for muscle preservation as far as protein powders are concerned. This is because it is rapidly metabolized and converted to glucose rather then used for anabolism/anti-catabolism

Human data for preserving muscle in a deficit:

HICA
Forskolin
HMB-FA
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Even if used intra-workout with hi-tech carbs?
 
amarula said:
Even if used intra-workout with hi-tech carbs?
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Its utilization isn't the concern, typically when it comes to muscle preservation what you want is a positive nitrogen balance long term through the day.

Its not bad, and sure it is quick digesting if you want it pre workout, or intra, but over your 24 hour day the data leans to blends including casein as being more effective.

Also as was mentioned, BCAAs or HICA/HMB can be used in fasted periods to help as well.
 
Driven2lift said:
Its utilization isn't the concern, typically when it comes to muscle preservation what you want is a positive nitrogen balance long term through the day.

Its not bad, and sure it is quick digesting if you want it pre workout, or intra, but over your 24 hour day the data leans to blends including casein as being more effective.

Also as was mentioned, BCAAs or HICA/HMB can be used in fasted periods to help as well.
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The reason for my question is that many use eaa's intra exactly with preserving muscle in mind. Hydro would be a good source of eaa's
 
amarula said:
The reason for my question is that many use eaa's intra exactly with preserving muscle in mind. Hydro would be a good source of eaa's
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Yes that helps, absolutely.

Not a bad idea, But recovery and growth from a workout is 24-48 hours or more, using a protein that digests in a very short time-frame is not my preference when trying to hold onto my lean mass on a cut where I am in a negative energy balance constantly, and want to optimize nitrogen retention.

If you are getting plenty of protein before/after your workout its fine
 
Driven2lift said:
Yes that helps, absolutely.

Not a bad idea, But recovery and growth from a workout is 24-48 hours or more, using a protein that digests in a very short time-frame is not my preference when trying to hold onto my lean mass on a cut where I am in a negative energy balance constantly, and want to optimize nitrogen retention.

If you are getting plenty of protein before/after your workout its fine
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Yeah, I know that. I use whole foods of course and blend protein powders as my sources
 
goodvibes said:
We have the same goals and almost the same situation there bro. I came from pct 6 weeks ago and not ready for another cycle yet so for myself my choice is set: Recompadrol, E9, PA, Ara, leucine and f95/anabeta elite. Second half to push for single digit I'm hitting some sarms with eca.
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ARA and E9 have been great to me but my ARA is ending soon :(


So thank you for the suggestions man !
 
Driven2lift said:
Its utilization isn't the concern, typically when it comes to muscle preservation what you want is a positive nitrogen balance long term through the day.

Its not bad, and sure it is quick digesting if you want it pre workout, or intra, but over your 24 hour day the data leans to blends including casein as being more effective.
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Not the same for everyone, though. In my case, with a significant casein intake I'd lose muscle so fast that my gym undershirts would wreak of ammonia and take a dozen washes to get the stink out. So it must be a matter of utilization for some like me because the hydro stuff lets me get stronger while dieting. It is rarely a matter of speed of delivery. It is almost invariably a matter of availability to muscle tissue and that's where some differ, regardless of what the studies indicate.
 
Kickstart7 said:
Gonna order soy lecithin granules. I have some osta. The unsure unique effects of osta scare me off since I just completed pct or that'd be choice #1 with E9
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Once you hit the dose of lecithin that works your appetite would be through the roof. You'd hit a buffet or two and you'd spare all muscle :)

Seriously, that is what PA does once it kicks in.
 
machinehead said:
Not the same for everyone, though. In my case, with a significant casein intake I'd lose muscle so fast that my gym undershirts would wreak of ammonia and take a dozen washes to get the stink out. So it must be a matter of utilization for some like me because the hydro stuff lets me get stronger while dieting. It is rarely a matter of speed of delivery. It is almost invariably a matter of availability to muscle tissue and that's where some differ, regardless of what the studies indicate.
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I don't think it is any more "available to muscle tissue" but if it works for you go for it everyone is different.

That is a very odd effect to attribute to casein.
I don't see how that would happen at all but maybe I will hand your original question back over to mr.cooper69
 
Driven2lift said:
Its utilization isn't the concern, typically when it comes to muscle preservation what you want is a positive nitrogen balance long term through the day.

Its not bad, and sure it is quick digesting if you want it pre workout, or intra, but over your 24 hour day the data leans to blends including casein as being more effective.

Also as was mentioned, BCAAs or HICA/HMB can be used in fasted periods to help as well.
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None of those protein studies used subjects on a bodybuilder crunch time cutting diets and training though, so would be interesting if things change under those conditions.
 
Driven2lift said:
I don't think it is any more "available to muscle tissue" but if it works for you go for it everyone is different.

That is a very odd effect to attribute to casein.
I don't see how that would happen at all but maybe I will hand your original question back over to mr.cooper69
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It is more available but it also processes out quicker as well so hydro whey and hydro casein are better utilized in pre/intra/post. Other times, they are a waste.
 
kissdadookie said:
None of those protein studies used subjects on a bodybuilder crunch time cutting diets and training though, so would be interesting if things change under those conditions.
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I wish every study was done in training individuals to make my life easier lol.

Most weight loss studies use obese subjects.

Most myogenic ingredients are tested in the elderly.

We get the shaft because we don't "need" it.
If I ever win the lotto I'm funding studies lol
 
Driven2lift said:
I wish every study was done in training individuals to make my life easier lol. Most weight loss studies use obese subjects. Most myogenic ingredients are tested in the elderly. We get the shaft because we don't "need" it. If I ever win the lotto I'm funding studies lol
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Oh what a perfect world that would be.
 
kissdadookie said:
None of those protein studies used subjects on a bodybuilder crunch time cutting diets and training though, so would be interesting if things change under those conditions.
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I mean, they used athletes instead. No study is perfect but that's a pretty good approximation. If anything, as one diets, the preponderance for AAs to be used for gluconeogenesis would increase
 
goodvibes said:
Cause if you did your hw then you would know muscle loss is inevitable when on a deficit.
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exactly what I'm talking about. I know I'll be in a deficit with this hard conditioning + weight training after it. It's get tricky to gauge how much I'll need no matter what:
 
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