Push for FDA ban if Caffeine Powder

jrkarp said:
The happy medium is allowing people the opportunity to be responsible for themselves and their children.
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Clearly not.

Funny thing is, most of the people in this thread have probably never even bought powder caffeine or measured something by milligram, and wouldn't miss its availability whatsoever.

It would increase cost by <$1/lb to just make people cut their bulk caffeine with rice flour until an included small serving scoop results in a safe dose.
 
De__eB said:
It would increase cost by <$1/lb to just make people cut their bulk caffeine with rice flour until an included small serving scoop results in a safe dose.
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My question was actually going to be if a scoop was being included. Some bulk companies add in a nice little 1/32 or 1/16 scoop.
 
De__eB said:
Clearly not.

Funny thing is, most of the people in this thread have probably never even bought powder caffeine or measured something by milligram, and wouldn't miss its availability whatsoever.

It would increase cost by <$1/lb to just make people cut their bulk caffeine with rice flour until an included small serving scoop results in a safe dose.
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regardless, implementing regulations are costly, ideally it would be regulated. Realistically there are more important things to handle.

Energy drinks are a far greater issue and we may see them/all of caffeine being regulated in the future.
 
kisaj said:
My question was actually going to be if a scoop was being included. Some bulk companies add in a nice little 1/32 or 1/16 scoop.
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Some do, a lot don't, is it unreasonable to expect them to? I don't really think so.

Do they include scoops small enough to matter?

A 1/16 teaspoon pinch scoop is around 200mg.

If they're including even a small standard sized scoop, that could be worse than no scoop at all if it's giving people a multi-gram plus dose of caffeine.

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People say they don't want govt involved, but why are companies that sell bulk powder caffeine not stepping up, saying 'okay, we've more clearly labeled our product, included an appropriate tiny scoop, and attempted to reduce the risk of accidental overdose.

As long as the entire industry tries to shirk responsibility for every single issue that comes its away and just tote the party line of 'TELL THE GOVERNMENT NOT TO TOUCH YOUR SUPPLEMENTS' then these issues will keep turning into bigger deals than should be, and the end result is going to be a more restricted supp market, not less.
 
De__eB said:
Some do, a lot don't, is it unreasonable to expect them to? I don't really think so.

Do they include scoops small enough to matter?

A 1/16 teaspoon pinch scoop is around 200mg.

If they're including even a small standard sized scoop, that could be worse than no scoop at all if it's giving people a multi-gram plus dose of caffeine.
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I don't understand what you are asking regarding if the scoops are small enough to matter. If you have a 1/16 scoop, you know what you are getting. I buy bulk all the time and they break down how much scoops are on the packaging. I'm not sure what a "standard" scoop size is as I have received a 1/64, 1/32, 1/16, and 1/8th with my bulk purchases depending on how much is needed.
 
thebigt said:
geez...didn't they ban dmaa? bet i can still get it!!!!


so i wonder if the dea will be the enforcement arm for this, i mean they have done such a terrific job with the war on drugs that nixon started in 1971...
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bump...

is the dea actually going to use appropriation money set aside for street drugs that represent a large proportion of crime in this country to fight a 'war' on anabolic's, lol.

geez, the politicians in this country get more corrupt everyday....follow the money trail!!!!

i bet they also pass a HUGE appropriations bill to fund this 'war' on anabolic's!!!
 
kisaj said:
I don't understand what you are asking regarding if the scoops are small enough to matter. If you have a 1/16 scoop, you know what you are getting. I buy bulk all the time and they break down how much scoops are on the packaging. I'm not sure what a "standard" scoop size is as I have received a 1/64, 1/32, 1/16, and 1/8th with my bulk purchases depending on how much is needed.
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I got bulk caffeine from a bulk powder seller I won't name, that had a scoop almost a tablespoon in size. :p Ended up being almost 4g of caffeine.

That was a couple years ago though, and I just buy tubs of 500 tabs from our own line now, so I'm mainly just curious what sort of scoop is being included by most of the powder caffeine suppliers.
 
De__eB said:
I got bulk caffeine from a bulk powder seller I won't name, that had a scoop almost a tablespoon in size. :p Ended up being almost 4g of caffeine.

That was a couple years ago though, and I just buy tubs of 500 tabs from our own line now, so I'm mainly just curious what sort of scoop is being included by most of the powder caffeine suppliers.
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Oh, I see. It seems that companies are getting better as I have a pile of scoops that equate to the suggested doses the bulk manufacturers put on their labels.
 
Lol yeah right! Then starbucks and coffee shops are the biggest dealers. They have some crazy concentrated coffees
 
caffeine, bath salts, huffing... kids will always find something. Not sure if taking it out of their hands will really matter.
 
kisaj said:
Oh, I see. It seems that companies are getting better as I have a pile of scoops that equate to the suggested doses the bulk manufacturers put on their labels.
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If they've gotten better since then, that's laudable.

If the package has a 1/32 or 1/16 scoop in it, and is labeled with a warning, and directions, then whatever company was the product used when these kids died needs to get on their PR and confront the issue.
 
De__eB said:
If they've gotten better since then, that's laudable.

If the package has a 1/32 or 1/16 scoop in it, and is labeled with a warning, and directions, then whatever company was the product used when these kids died needs to get on their PR and confront the issue.
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exactly!
 
De__eB said:
If they've gotten better since then, that's laudable.

If the package has a 1/32 or 1/16 scoop in it, and is labeled with a warning, and directions, then whatever company was the product used when these kids died needs to get on their PR and confront the issue.
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Couldn't agree more.
 
braskibra said:
regardless, implementing regulations are costly, ideally it would be regulated. Realistically there are more important things to handle.

Energy drinks are a far greater issue and we may see them/all of caffeine being regulated in the future.
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There are actually very few incidents reported with energy drinks vs caffeine in general.

Not sure what max dose the US has, but here there is no more than 160mg in a large energy drink
 
kisaj said:
Couldn't agree more.
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I read that some guy consumed like 2 dozen no doze and the parents found that the box said something to the effect of "its as safe as a coffee".

Who consumes 2 dozen?!?! Lol
 
Contaygious said:
Lol yeah right! Then starbucks and coffee shops are the biggest dealers. They have some crazy concentrated coffees
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Coffee is harder to cause problems because there is liquid to offset the diuretic effect, whereas powder doesn't. Yes you can have problems with both, the coffee threshold is just higher. It's something like 8 cups of coffee or whatever the equivalent of 2000mg is.
 
Jiigzz said:
There are actually very few incidents reported with energy drinks vs caffeine in general.

Not sure what max dose the US has, but here there is no more than 160mg in a large energy drink
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Actually that's incorrect, 20 000 ER visits a year atttributed to energy drinks, 5 of the 13 deathsr report in 13 were contributed to monster alone
 
braskibra said:
Actually that's incorrect, 20 000 ER visits a year atttributed to energy drinks, 5 of the 13 deathsr report in 13 were contributed to monster alone
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were they just energy drinks...or were they mixed with alcohol?
 
Jiigzz said:
why is it, do you think, that aspirin isnt sold in powder form? Pills require a more concious effort to OD on, but if you had powdered aspirin, I bet there would be a call for its removal.

5g of caffeine would be around a teaspoon depending on its density; that alone would be enough to cause serious discomfort. Many people fail to fathom that a typical dose is so small.

They are not banning caffeine, just powder.

Its really not a big deal
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You don't see it in powder form because it is pharmaceutical product. If I could buy it in bulk and measure it or cap it myself, I MAY do that, depending on the cost savings. But it's not available because the drug companies choose not to sell it as such. There is also a financial benefit to selling pills like this to the masses. Most people don't understand that (50) 100 mg pills is less than (30) 200 mg pills in overall amount, and I can market a number of different potencies/pill counts to get people to spend money. The general public doesn't view powders as being convenient either.

xhrr said:
Do you see Tylenol in powder form? No. Your point is irrelevant.
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You don't see Tylenol in powder form, it is in pill form, and the ER visits from Tylenol pill ingestion STILL far out weight the ER visits from bulk caffeine powder consumers. I understand that FAR more people use Tylenol than Bulk Caffeine...but you can adjust and I bet it would still be a much larger number. Acetaminophen is dangerous and most people use it as if it has no side effects and can't harm you - which is the SAME problem we face with bulk caffeine. Lack of understanding of the consequences.

As others have said, you can't legislate intelligent use of a product though.

Finally, as De_eb pointed out...not many people have scales. I do weigh many bulk powders and have dealt with mg doses, and it can be tricky. But I think most people are overlooking - even a teaspoon dose of this shouldn't kill the average WOMAN. It may cause some uncomfortable side effects...but you don't have to be measuring mg on a scale. A scoop and/or rice powder as De_eb suggested would easily be a happy medium.

In the end, if they ban it, it won't be the end of the world. I have 500 grams of caffeine powder and it will go bad before I use it probably. And when it does, I can use tablets just fine....but that doesn't make this new law any less unnecessary.
 
ddfox said:
Probably more like idiots who can't do math and had no idea how much they were taking. Or don't understand g versus mg.
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Aren't those the same thing? 600g of caffeine and 5 mg of creatine for the win
 
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