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Is animal pak a good suplement???

Lmao ok buddy! You are the one who attacked my initial post, mentioned your product, and belittled my responses. But I'm argumentative....

My point was animal pak is a good multi. It was made with my first post. It's not very cost effective. Contains all the basics of all multis and some additional supps that you claimed are carried by all, yet your product lacks them in dose considerably compared to animal pak.

So what makes animal pak crap and your product superior?
 
The most important aspect of any multi, arguably, is its solubility. If its not even soluble, even if it were a good multi dosage wise, you wouldn't get any of it.
 
RamboStallone said:
My point was animal pak is a good multi. It was made with my first post. It's not very cost effective. Contains all the basics of all multis and some additional supps that you claimed are carried by all, yet your product lacks them in dose considerably compared to animal pak.

So what makes animal pak crap and your product superior?
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you can have your opinion that a-pak is a good multi - obviously, I do not take the same view
but you seem to miss the point - despite all your hair-splitting over support sups amounts to justify that a-pak is good and better than active multi, not once have I countered with anything remotely close to stating that our product was superior ... this is all you, trying to pigeonhole me into that position

what makes a-pak a poor choice for a multi, is not necessarily the things you bring up...rather, it is the amount of needless or useless things in it, at the pricepoint they sell it at...a-pak is a serviceable product imo, nothing more, but I would not touch it with a 10' pole at that pricepoint -- it would be a waste, plain & simple

our multi is similar in comparison (since you seem intent on making that comparison), lots of good extras despite some at lower-than-recognized-efficacious doses -- yet, the intent we have with ours is a serviceable multi, multi-faceted, in a nice competitive pricepoint segment....we have never claimed it to be the "holy grail" for all your nutritional needs, and perhaps you missed it earlier when I said if it were up to me, there were some things I personally would have done differently with the design..



despite my trying to leave the conversation, you continue to come back to me..hopefully I've laid any further arguments you have to rest, and clarified my position a bit better for your edification, because this is really becoming redundant and monotonous
 
You claim all multis have what apak has, yet you say now it has "needless" and "useless" things....what are these "things" you speak of?

You attack the apak doses, yet it out does your own multi which has milk thistle and Hawthorne berry at doses that would not do justice for a rat....

Ok then lets compare essentials.

Folic acid: apak 400mcgs, your multi 50mcgs
Magnesium: apak 400mg, yours 150mg
Copper: apak 600mcg, yours 50mcg

And I can go on, it beats yours in vitamins c, d, and e.

Calcium 2g versus your 250mgs.....

Cmon, if apak is a bad multi yours is hot garbage!!

Ever consider the dose to price difference? I for one compare mg per dollar, gram per dollar, etc, when purchasing a supplement.

The cost difference can be seen when looking at the doses. If one needs higher doses, its obvious the choice would be apak.

Shall I post the two supplement facts side by side for you?

So what exactly makes apak a bad multi? It out performs yours, so the cost difference can be justified with just that.
 
Lol so you neg me, ok I'm soo hurt.

You have yet to prove why apak is a bad multi or a poor choice as you have worded it?

Price can be justified for the convenience one can argue. Doses of the contents also play a big price role which I have outlined for you above.
 
I like OT and Anavite :D

oh and NOW ADAM
 
Driven2lift said:
Bam-bam Flinstone vitamins are laced with SD
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That sounds like a bullshít vitamin as well. You know the gummy ones are top notch right?
 
RamboStallone said:
It has niacin, biotin, vitamins a, b, c, d, copper, magnesium, zinc, milk thistle, folic acid, Hawthorne berry, coq10 (though very low), grape seed extract, etc.

Lots of these are essential for heart, liver, and general health.

I take many of these most at higher doses because I am slightly anemic, have some deficiencies, and use AAS.

It also contains some eaa's, other support vitamins and minerals. Yes it may not be enough of them in a serving for everything, that's why it's a supplement. It doesn't replace all the vit and minerals you get from food. You're not supposed to get a 100% of something from a supplement, unless its for support.
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This is you seemingly sticking up for AP ^^

RamboStallone said:
Most multi vitamins do not have these products in them. Not from what I've seen at least.If they did I would use one but I don't and I don't use animal pak either. I buy and use whatever vitamins I feel I need at my own tailored doses to me.
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RamboStallone said:
Where did you jump to that conclusion from? Did you even read my post before you blabbered bull**** down?

I wouldn't go to a multivitamin for these period, that's my point about the b12 as well.

I don't use animal pak or give a care to. It has the basic bull**** all the other multivitamins have, so yes in the multi game it competes just fine but there are cheaper options.
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That's how I came to that conclusion. :)
 
xhrr said:
This is you seemingly sticking up for AP ^^





That's how I came to that conclusion. :)
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First, I defended my comment.

Second, it has hawthorne berry and milk thistle in amounts comparable to a cycle support. It carries the essential vitamins in a higher dose then the the example of the "good" multi mentioned in this thread. So your comment about it having miniscule amounts was incorrect in the first place, that's why your conclusion did not and still does not make sense....
 
RamboStallone said:
First, I defended my comment. Second, it has hawthorne berry and milk thistle in amounts comparable to a cycle support. It carries the essential vitamins in a higher dose then the the example of the "good" multi mentioned in this thread. So your comment about it having miniscule amounts was incorrect in the first place, that's why your conclusion did not and still does not make sense....
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I was talking about active multi not ap so.....

Ps: Milk thistle and hawthorn are hardly "essential" for good health. Do you know the proper dosages required/studied or do you just base them off of other cycle support supplements and say yeah that looks good. Just because they are comparable does not make them adequate. Not speaking about any product in particular more of a generalization.
 
xhrr said:
I was talking about active multi not ap so.....
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What? Lol, your comment was in response to me mentioning that animal pak was a good multi, I had never mentioned active multi at that point and when I did I surely did not defend it or say I would use it. You're confusing me, maybe you confused my comment with another?

It's funny because the nutraplanet site let's you adjust the serving, so when I did for active multi to even get it to comparable doses to animal pak it cost a bit over a dollar per serving. Basically you'd be better off buying animal pak at that point as it becomes more economical since the active multi still lacked in a number of areas even at the higher dosed serving!
 
RamboStallone said:
What? Lol, your comment was in response to me mentioning that animal pak was a good multi, I had never mentioned active multi at that point and when I did I surely did not defend it or say I would use it. You're confusing me, maybe you confused my comment with another? It's funny because the nutraplanet site let's you adjust the serving, so when I did for active multi to even get it to comparable doses to animal pak it cost a bit over a dollar per serving. Basically you'd be better off buying animal pak at that point as it becomes more economical since the active multi still lacked in a number of areas even at the higher dosed serving!
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Idk dude I've been up all night studying for exams just ignore me
 
I like my multi better than yours. Let's step outside and "discuss" it.

At some point, we are majoring in minors here, and this happens a lot with protein, but I didn't know it could go that far with vitamins. Does anyone REALLY notice any major difference in ANYTHING when taking AP, OT, Flinstones, or any multi-vitamin?

Maybe some of the educated people on this site who love their scientific research have some research that would help decide if a multi is even worth taking if you are eating a reasonable diet?
 
HIT4ME said:
I like my multi better than yours. Let's step outside and "discuss" it.

At some point, we are majoring in minors here, and this happens a lot with protein, but I didn't know it could go that far with vitamins. Does anyone REALLY notice any major difference in ANYTHING when taking AP, OT, Flinstones, or any multi-vitamin?

Maybe some of the educated people on this site who love their scientific research have some research that would help decide if a multi is even worth taking if you are eating a reasonable diet?
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Nice post.
 
HIT4ME said:
I like my multi better than yours. Let's step outside and "discuss" it.

At some point, we are majoring in minors here, and this happens a lot with protein, but I didn't know it could go that far with vitamins. Does anyone REALLY notice any major difference in ANYTHING when taking AP, OT, Flinstones, or any multi-vitamin?

Maybe some of the educated people on this site who love their scientific research have some research that would help decide if a multi is even worth taking if you are eating a reasonable diet?
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even the "experts" in the field of nutrition, with degrees (as you like to say - educated), will have disparate and conflicting stances on whether you should take a multi....there is no firm line drawn in the sand, thus this is and will forever be a "personal judgment" call
 
My bloodwork shows I need certain vitamins....no expert needed.

Whether it's from a multi or not is a personal choice. I choose to buy each and every vitamin separately.

My feeling is in today's world of processed, preserved, hormone fed, factory spawned food; we are not getting all the essential vitamins we need.

I've experimented over the years, dropping stuff like vitamin C and immediately getting sick and catching colds and I'm someone who rarely gets sick. Dropping essential vitamins and bloodwork showing deficiencies in things like iron after months of eating **** tons of red meat!

For me I feel that they are essential. My skin, nails, and hair are even different.
 
RamboStallone said:
Dropping essential vitamins and bloodwork showing deficiencies in things like iron after months of eating **** tons of red meat!
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that's indicative of a metabolic dysfunction, not lack of vitamins...are you iron deficient anemic?
for the majority of men, if they use a multi, it should not be with iron included - and this is why you see many (if not most) mens vitamins with no iron
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
that's indicative of a metabolic dysfunction, not lack of vitamins...are you iron deficient anemic?
for the majority of men, if they use a multi, it should not be with iron included - and this is why you see many (if not most) mens vitamins with no iron
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Yes that is the consensus after multiple bloodwork results over the past year. A deficiency in one area can lead to a deficiency in another as the body begins to use more of what is available in simple terms. So it's hard to pinpoint down the actual reason.

My T4 was low and T3 uptake was high, but my TSH was normal. There is definitely a metabolic issue.
 
RamboStallone said:
Yes that is the consensus after multiple bloodwork results over the past year. A deficiency in one area can lead to a deficiency in another as the body begins to use more of what is available in simple terms. So it's hard to pinpoint down the actual reason.

My T4 was low and T3 uptake was high, but my TSH was normal. There is definitely a metabolic issue.
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Do you get your tests done during periods of intense activity? Have you ever heard of sports anemia?
 
Spaniard said:
Do you get your tests done during periods of intense activity? Have you ever heard of sports anemia?
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This.

When do you get blood tests done? After working out? I find it rather remarkable that your Iron count does not increase with continual and regular red meat consumption. Maybe you should get this looked into. Do you drink coffee around the time you eat meat? If so, stop that and drink orange juice or something with Vit C instead.

I know Mr.Cooper has done a lot of research into Iron and his input would be valuable here
 
RamboStallone said:
My bloodwork shows I need certain vitamins....no expert needed.

Whether it's from a multi or not is a personal choice. I choose to buy each and every vitamin separately.

My feeling is in today's world of processed, preserved, hormone fed, factory spawned food; we are not getting all the essential vitamins we need.

I've experimented over the years, dropping stuff like vitamin C and immediately getting sick and catching colds and I'm someone who rarely gets sick. Dropping essential vitamins and bloodwork showing deficiencies in things like iron after months of eating **** tons of red meat!

For me I feel that they are essential. My skin, nails, and hair are even different.
Click to expand...

I highly doubt you are iron deficient unless you have a medical condition or GI bleeding. You likely had blood iron tested and not ferritin
 
its decent if your new to supps i would rec ti while you learn your supps over the next year and go solo for what you need and make up your own "daily packs"
 
Spaniard said:
Do you get your tests done during periods of intense activity? Have you ever heard of sports anemia?
Click to expand...


Jiigzz said:
This.

When do you get blood tests done? After working out? I find it rather remarkable that your Iron count does not increase with continual and regular red meat consumption. Maybe you should get this looked into. Do you drink coffee around the time you eat meat? If so, stop that and drink orange juice or something with Vit C instead.

I know Mr.Cooper has done a lot of research into Iron and his input would be valuable here
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mr.cooper69 said:
I highly doubt you are iron deficient unless you have a medical condition or GI bleeding. You likely had blood iron tested and not ferritin
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My blood tests are taken at a fasted state Saturday morning but I do workout the afternoon before. I haven't gotten an actual iron panel yet. What lead to the anemia theory, iron deficiency was my mcv and mch being low and rdw being high multiple tests in a row. Further research is required to reallys see whats going on. I appreciate the input.

No I have not heard of sports anemia? Please fill me in more. This last blood test I was taking 65mgs of iron and 2 to 8 mgs of vitamin C a day. And my mcv and mch levels were still low and my rdw was still high. Also my thyroid panel was off like I mentioned before. To not clutter this thread I can post my bloodwork in another thread for further discussion if anyone would like to chime in?
 
mr.cooper69 said:
I highly doubt you are iron deficient unless you have a medical condition or GI bleeding. You likely had blood iron tested and not ferritin
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That's a good point. You wouldn't want high blood iron levels as that would be toxic. In case you're unaware (not you Coop) iron that is not being used in hemoglobin is kept bound to a transport protein such as ferritin because high levels of free iron is toxic.
 
RamboStallone said:
My blood tests are taken at a fasted state Saturday morning but I do workout the afternoon before. I haven't gotten an actual iron panel yet. What lead to the anemia theory, iron deficiency was my mcv and mch being low and rdw being high multiple tests in a row. Further research is required to reallys see whats going on. I appreciate the input.

No I have not heard of sports anemia? Please fill me in more. This last blood test I was taking 65mgs of iron and 2 to 8 mgs of vitamin C a day. And my mcv and mch levels were still low and my rdw was still high. Also my thyroid panel was off like I mentioned before. To not clutter this thread I can post my bloodwork in another thread for further discussion if anyone would like to chime in?
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Nah, no worries this thread is fine...

Sports related anemia or "athletes anemia" occurs when you exercise vigorously, which causes an expansion of blood volume. This ultimately dilutes the blood components, which results in a seemingly iron deficient environment, where no actual deficiency exists. It's completely normal and returns to baseline once blood volume returns to normal

Think of it like adding an additional fluid to a solution. It would essentially water down that solution to show a lesser amount of the original solution but in this case the solution would eventually return to its pre-diluted state.
 
Spaniard said:
Nah, no worries this thread is fine...

Sports related anemia or "athletes anemia" occurs when you exercise vigorously, which causes an expansion of blood volume. This ultimately dilutes the blood components, which results in a seemingly iron deficient environment, where no actual deficiency exists. It's completely normal and returns to baseline once blood volume returns to normal

Think of it like adding an additional fluid to a solution. It would essentially water down that solution to show a lesser amount of the original solution but in this case the solution would eventually return to its pre-diluted state.
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Interesting concept, but woukd it affect my blood mcv and mch values? Remember I haven't directly gotten an iron panel yet.
 
Looking at them now, they got worse over time. Could it be sports related anemia since the first blood test I have dropped 30lbs of fat and gained back some nice weight in muscle. I went from 200lbs size 38 waist to 175lbs size 33 waist and now at 190lbs size 33 waist.
 
koi1214 said:
Your levels are this high from a natty supp?

Serum test 1474 348-1197 reference range
Estradiol 144 7.6-42.6 reference range
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No, he's likely on TRT or a cycle. His LH and FSH numbers are floored, which you likely wouldn't see with such high testosterone levels.
 
Spaniard said:
No, he's likely on TRT or a cycle. His LH and FSH numbers are floored, which you likely wouldn't see with such high testosterone levels.
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Yes, the ageless male comment was a joke I thought the initial comment was a joke lol

I only posted my bloodwork to see if anyone had any idea why the thyroid panel and platelet panel values were out of range. I know why all the other ones are.

My guess was an anemia which is causing several deficiencies. The sports anemia sounds interesting but I am thinking that would only show in the actual iron panel not on the blood platelet levels?
 
RamboStallone said:
Yes, the ageless male comment was a joke I thought the initial comment was a joke lol

I only posted my bloodwork to see if anyone had any idea why the thyroid panel and platelet panel values were out of range. I know why all the other ones are.

My guess was an anemia which is causing several deficiencies. The sports anemia sounds interesting but I am thinking that would only show in the actual iron panel not on the blood platelet levels?
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Invalid Link Removed
 
lol koi..
yeah he said earlier he uses aas, I was clowning on the ageless male bit too
those panels are very indicative of aas use
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
even the "experts" in the field of nutrition, with degrees (as you like to say - educated), will have disparate and conflicting stances on whether you should take a multi....there is no firm line drawn in the sand, thus this is and will forever be a "personal judgment" call
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This is not against my point. We agree here - I'm saying, maybe there are some people on this site that are aware of research on the pros and cons. I'm not, so I can only give personal experience, reasoning, etc.

I think this is why you've been asking the questions - what is the thinking of certain people behind their use or non-use of certain products. It is a good question. Seeing different viewpoints will give someone a chance to decide which view they believe most.

The issue is, even experts have conflicting stances, so it's hard to call someone out too harshly as being wrong, and it's hard to say that Animal Pak is complete junk. On one side, all vitamins are worthless, on the other they have some value. I think they may have some very minor, difficult to perceive value, but if the options are no value or very little value, splitting hairs over the best vitamin out there becomes inefficient - you are spending time on something that even at 100% will be unnoticeable....so why spend time for an extra 20%?
 
The best thing about Animal Paks is saving the container and then using it to store stuff....

Great for putting protein in smaller and easily accessible containers, any home made flours (ie ground oats), misc stuff like stationary.
 
Akagami said:
The best thing about Animal Paks is saving the container and then using it to store stuff....

Great for putting protein in smaller and easily accessible containers, any home made flours (ie ground oats), misc stuff like stationary.
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Best post in the thread ;) I have one in my locker at the station to keep my pens, knife and the misc in lol
 
RamboStallone said:
Looking at them now, they got worse over time. Could it be sports related anemia since the first blood test I have dropped 30lbs of fat and gained back some nice weight in muscle. I went from 200lbs size 38 waist to 175lbs size 33 waist and now at 190lbs size 33 waist.
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It's not even anemia, it looks more like something sideroblastic given the high RDW
 
RamboStallone said:
High rdw is associated with iron, folate, or b12 anemia.

Sideroblastic is an anemia isn't it? Dealing with bone marrow.
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High RDW is associated with a million things my dude, including ANY anemia. Isolated high RDW in a male on AAS is likely sideroblastic, which doesn't have to be anemia but rather an erythroblast anomaly, which can be seen with AAS use
 
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