I'm on Phosphatidic acid Ya'll

[Pec.Major]

When should you take PA? 1hour preworkout?

 

[Grayson]

When should you take PA? 1hour preworkout?

Affirmative.

 

[mase1]

Do all soy lecithin contain pa? And at a high dose? Not all labels have pa content on them, wondering if I can pick up any company and give it a try.

 

[thescience]

Do all soy lecithin contain pa? And at a high dose? Not all labels have pa content on them, wondering if I can pick up any company and give it a try.

maybe better to just get one that lists it so you have something to judge by. the one's that claim 97% phosphatides are better.

 

[Ca2pa]

So if one would purchase soy lecithin, just drink more milk throughout the day to counteract the high phosphorous?

 

[Pec.Major]

Affirmative.

Roger that.

 

[kissdadookie]

Just saw the PA product that is currently exclusive to GNC that fightnews mentioned. HOLY CHIT it's expensive. Even the member price still has it at $80 for 30 days. It does at least tell you how much PA is in it (full 750 mg's, PA enriched lecithin @ 50% PA).

I do however like that they've included an efficacious dose of tart cherry fruit concentrate in each serving.

 

[Touey]

go ask your local GNC sales associate why you should pay that over their price for soy lecithin, then report back in this thread the nature of their response

 

[kissdadookie]

go ask your local GNC sales associate why you should pay that over their price for soy lecithin, then report back in this thread the nature of their response

Better question yet, why has no-one noticed the PA effects from high dosed soy lecithin? It would only make sense that people would have gotten the same effect and noted them if regular soy lecithin works just the same (remember, PA is really just soy lecithin concentrated for higher PA content, typically 60+% PA).

Not that I don't think soy lecithin might not work, but rather why the effects reported on for PA hasn't been noted previously for high dosed soy lecithin, it would appear that people have been using high dosed lecithin for a very long time now going by what TheScience has posted.

So the question is, is there a difference in peak levels of PA when taking PA concentrated/enriched lecithin vs. regular lecithin.

 

[Touey]

Better question yet, why has no-one noticed the PA effects from high dosed soy lecithin? It would only make sense that people would have gotten the same effect and noted them if regular soy lecithin works just the same (remember, PA is really just soy lecithin concentrated for higher PA content, typically 60+% PA).

Not that I don't think soy lecithin might not work, but rather why the effects reported on for PA hasn't been noted previously for high dosed soy lecithin, it would appear that people have been using high dosed lecithin for a very long time now going by what TheScience has posted.

So the question is, is there a difference in peak levels of PA when taking PA concentrated/enriched lecithin vs. regular lecithin.

generally speaking one likes to make more noise about that which they pay big bucks

 

[kissdadookie]

generally speaking one likes to make more noise about that which they pay big bucks

Nah, if the stuff didn't do anything for me, I would just basically not have ever mentioned it (the $60 for 20 days PA at the time). I liked it so much that I bought like 8 bottles of it and then later 4 bottles of King.

However, you never see people posting about regular lecithin like they have for PA so that leads me to think either 1) dosing of the regular lecithin wasn't correct in dosage and/or timing or 2) PA enriched/concentrated lecithin does something that regular lecithin doesn't (which likely if there is a difference, it's probably the peak levels of PA you end up with after ingestion).

Somebody go buy some lecithin and test it out

 

[Touey]

Nah, if the stuff didn't do anything for me, I would just basically not have ever mentioned it (the $60 for 20 days PA at the time). I liked it so much that I bought like 8 bottles of it and then later 4 bottles of King.

However, you never see people posting about regular lecithin like they have for PA so that leads me to think either 1) dosing of the regular lecithin wasn't correct in dosage and/or timing or 2) PA enriched/concentrated lecithin does something that regular lecithin doesn't (which likely if there is a difference, it's probably the peak levels of PA you end up with after ingestion).

Somebody go buy some lecithin and test it out

I've not seen more than a handful posting about it here; not to imply I don't assume perhaps you feel it helps personally

 

[kissdadookie]

I've not seen more than a handful posting about it here; not to imply I don't assume perhaps you feel it helps personally

Because the PA product that was out was only available from one company. That company doesn't sell most of their products at other supplement stores. Boards like this are filled with customers from largely the stores and brands that sponsors this site (as it should be). It's the circle of life my friend.

 

[Touey]

Because the PA product that was out was only available from one company. That company doesn't sell most of their products at other supplement stores. Boards like this are filled with customers from largely the stores and brands that sponsors this site (as it should be). It's the circle of life my friend.

I don't get the sense here that members are uninformed, singularly when it comes to compositions which display the kind of results you're finding. Whether it be sold here or elsewhere sussing out would be certain.

 

[Spaniard]

What current supps are you on? What's your training like?

I'd post your findings in this thread after your first workout, and then every week, if you can that is

Also it would be interesting to stack this with PS.

Stack it with VITAL1TY - 5 g Creapure,
2.5 g TMG, 400 mg PS, enjoy

Don't forget that the mTOR activation and stress attenuation effects all decreased at higher doses with PS. 400 mg seems to be the most successful dose

 

[thescience]

Better question yet, why has no-one noticed the PA effects from high dosed soy lecithin? It would only make sense that people would have gotten the same effect and noted them if regular soy lecithin works just the same (remember, PA is really just soy lecithin concentrated for higher PA content, typically 60+% PA).

Not that I don't think soy lecithin might not work, but rather why the effects reported on for PA hasn't been noted previously for high dosed soy lecithin, it would appear that people have been using high dosed lecithin for a very long time now going by what TheScience has posted.

So the question is, is there a difference in peak levels of PA when taking PA concentrated/enriched lecithin vs. regular lecithin.

well, i havent kept up with this thread as much as i should, but last i knew nobody really had that many astounding effects to report. did that change? i mean, is this the mtor thread where i asked about strength gains people reported and nobody had any idea how many lbs they added to their bench? maybe not. anyway, i recollect someone feeling more muscle fullness and maybe stronger though they only notice it once theyre off. as far as im concerned, one could report all that by eating wonder bread. please inform me if anyone has noticed some awesome specific benefits since i started slacking at keeping up with this

 

[Contaygious]

If soy lecithin worked as well wouldn't we all be paying less? Its way cheaper. Now has it for 7 bucks for 200 caps of 1200mg

 

[thescience]

If soy lecithin worked as well wouldn't we all be paying less? Its way cheaper. Now has it for 7 bucks for 200 caps of 1200mg

what specific benefits did you notice from pa?

 

[fightnews]

Just saw the PA product that is currently exclusive to GNC that fightnews mentioned. HOLY CHIT it's expensive. Even the member price still has it at $80 for 30 days. It does at least tell you how much PA is in it (full 750 mg's, PA enriched lecithin @ 50% PA).

I do however like that they've included an efficacious dose of tart cherry fruit concentrate in each serving.

i knew it would be a rape off

 

[fightnews]

I've not seen more than a handful posting about it here; not to imply I don't assume perhaps you feel it helps personally

its better then placebodrone

 

[Touey]

you like the PA FN what have you noted you're on the lecithin or..

 

[Spaniard]

If soy lecithin worked as well wouldn't we all be paying less? Its way cheaper. Now has it for 7 bucks for 200 caps of 1200mg

That's not necessarily the case. I saw the link someone posted earlier and if you opt for bulk lecithin you're likely going to have to build it into your fat intake. The one that was posted IIRC came out to 140 kcals of fat per serving. Granted it's pretty minute but it's still worth considering.

Also, one would think why not just opt for bulk lecithin over PA but think of it like a compound extracted from an herb. For example Forskolin and the Indian Coleus plant. Why not just eat a ton of Indian coleus plant? Because we know Forskolin is the bioactive extract of that plant.

Don't misinterpret my post, my only intent is to make the point that it's not that far fetched to have main active phospholipids in lecithin, while lecithin fails to elicit the same effects.

At this point we don't know and until someone does a comparison study, which I doubt will ever happen, it's all left up to speculation.

 

[fightnews]

you like the PA FN what have you noted you're on the lecithin or..

i started the thread brah, im the pa og, i been on it since january, its gets you jacked brah, gives you da gainzzzz srs

i use biotest right now but i might switch to the new king cuz i can only afford 4 caps a day of biotest

hopefully bioturd will lower their price soon to be competitive

 

[kissdadookie]

well, i havent kept up with this thread as much as i should, but last i knew nobody really had that many astounding effects to report. did that change? i mean, is this the mtor thread where i asked about strength gains people reported and nobody had any idea how many lbs they added to their bench? maybe not. anyway, i recollect someone feeling more muscle fullness and maybe stronger though they only notice it once theyre off. as far as im concerned, one could report all that by eating wonder bread. please inform me if anyone has noticed some awesome specific benefits since i started slacking at keeping up with this

I did. Spoken about it plenty. The bulk of feedback for PA is unfortunately located on another board and there's not much crossover in terms of membership/customers between here and on that board.

Thus unless you are a customer of that other company already OR you frequent that board, it's unlikely PA even crossed your path in the first place as you would most likely not have heard of it. It was discussed on this board (PA) over a year ago. Perhaps 2 years ago? Then the talk died off as there was no product at the time out using PA until late last year. People whom frequent boards like this one would most likely not have bothered trying the product out due to bias towards the company in question. That is, until recently when BPI decided to put out a product highlighting the ingredient at a very affordable price (relative to competing products).

So, it's no fault of your own for not have heard much buzz around PA until recently but that stuff has been on the market for almost a full year now? I've been using it for at least 6 months straight if not more at this point?

Also, as Spaniard pointed out, really would need a comparison study. Perhaps people whom have been using big doses of lecithin in the past didn't time it properly or the dosing wasn't correct to illicit the PA effects. I don't know but I really haven't seen anybody point out PA supplementation-type effects by dosing high amounts of lecithin.

 

[Touey]

i started the thread brah, im the pa og, i been on it since january, its gets you jacked brah, gives you da gainzzzz srs

lol I guess I've been a bit remiss in following your progress, it sounds like you and dook are quite sold upon this

 

[kissdadookie]

lol I guess I've been a bit remiss in following your progress, it sounds like you and dook are quite sold upon this

6+ months roughly straight of using PA. IMO when the price comes down eventually and stabilizes, it could be up there with creatine and beta alanine as staples.

I would be recommending C3G as well, but that chit is way too expensive to seriously recommend. Way out of reach for most (but TBH, it actually works, lol).

 

[fightnews]

Here's some pics of my latest gainzzz Im up to almost 215

 

[fightnews]

6+ months roughly straight of using PA. IMO when the price comes down eventually and stabilizes, it could be up there with creatine and beta alanine as staples.

I would be recommending C3G as well, but that chit is way too expensive to seriously recommend. Way out of reach for most (but TBH, it actually works, lol).

Ya I think once it becomes affordable enough to double dose everyone will be using it. You tried the c3g stuff huh? you think it works good?

 

[fightnews]

lol I guess I've been a bit remiss in following your progress, it sounds like you and dook are quite sold upon this

It's not your fault brah, its not your fault, I don't really post my progress formally in any logs or anything like that. I just wing it

 

[kissdadookie]

Ya I think once it becomes affordable enough to double dose everyone will be using it. You tried the c3g stuff huh? you think it works good?

Well, I wouldn't have believed that the C3G worked but if I cut my calories down to maintenance or slightly below and lower my carbs a bit, pounds shed off me really quick (water mostly). I end up losing a lot of carb bloat as well. Like it's kind of scary so I basically have to constantly keep feeding to keep my weight up. Then there's the blood test I had a few weeks back. My glucose level was at 92 I think, which is in the fasting glucose range, except I was in a fed state (roughly 300 or so calories <2 hours of having the blood drawn, then 500+ calories from earlier before that). So if my glucose levels are pretty good right now even though I've been shoveling whatever the heck I can down my pie hole (not clean eating either) for months now, I think that would suggest that the C3G is playing a role in keeping my insulin sensitive at least.

 

[fightnews]

Well, I wouldn't have believed that the C3G worked but if I cut my calories down to maintenance or slightly below and lower my carbs a bit, pounds shed off me really quick (water mostly). I end up losing a lot of carb bloat as well. Like it's kind of scary so I basically have to constantly keep feeding to keep my weight up. Then there's the blood test I had a few weeks back. My glucose level was at 92 I think, which is in the fasting glucose range, except I was in a fed state (roughly 300 or so calories <2 hours of having the blood drawn, then 500+ calories from earlier before that). So if my glucose levels are pretty good right now even though I've been shoveling whatever the heck I can down my pie hole (not clean eating either) for months now, I think that would suggest that the C3G is playing a role in keeping my insulin sensitive at least.

I admire how accurately you track everything, i dont count calories or anything, i have no clue whats going on inside

 

[kissdadookie]

I admire how accurately you track everything, i dont count calories or anything, i have no clue whats going on inside

LoL. I track things a few times and then when I find the right mix, I just do and eat the same thing day in day out week to week pretty much, until that doesn't work anymore, then I reassess and adjust.

 

[ELROCK]

I've not seen more than a handful posting about it here; not to imply I don't assume perhaps you feel it helps personally

I have been on the OG King (pa) for 3 weeks now and I am enjoying this run. I have noticed muscle fullness and a slight boost in strength. I am also stacking it with PS, but that is definitely not necessary. I just was already taking the PS for the mental boost.

 

[fightnews]

LoL. I track things a few times and then when I find the right mix, I just do and eat the same thing day in day out week to week pretty much, until that doesn't work anymore, then I reassess and adjust.

me to i eat the same thing every freakin day pretty much

 

[NewAgeMayan]

dook, you getting this c3g from same place as micropa? what is cost per month supply (do they reccomend to cycle?)

 

[kissdadookie]

dook, you getting this c3g from same place as micropa? what is cost per month supply (do they reccomend to cycle?)

Yeah, because ChromaDex's C3G was ever only used in one product

I don't recommend buying it on it's own unless I guess if you have nice disposable income and are combating carbs tolerance issues or perhaps you've become quite insulin resistant.

You're looking at a hundy here for 30 days. I don't buy it as a single item and wouldn't buy it as a single item. It ends up costing me half that.

Maybe Antaeus Labs' Talos might have similar effects? It has black rice derived anthocyanins (C3G is a anthocyanin) at a nice hefty dose. There's other good stuff in Talos as well going by the label (it's a support supp, so covers organ and cardio-vascular health). It's kind of pricey as well though, $40 on NP but I can't speak on it being effective as a "nutrient partitioner" or insulin sensitivity "fixer."

 

[thescience]

I did. Spoken about it plenty. The bulk of feedback for PA is unfortunately located on another board and there's not much crossover in terms of membership/customers between here and on that board.

Thus unless you are a customer of that other company already OR you frequent that board, it's unlikely PA even crossed your path in the first place as you would most likely not have heard of it. It was discussed on this board (PA) over a year ago. Perhaps 2 years ago? Then the talk died off as there was no product at the time out using PA until late last year. People whom frequent boards like this one would most likely not have bothered trying the product out due to bias towards the company in question. That is, until recently when BPI decided to put out a product highlighting the ingredient at a very affordable price (relative to competing products).

So, it's no fault of your own for not have heard much buzz around PA until recently but that stuff has been on the market for almost a full year now? I've been using it for at least 6 months straight if not more at this point?

Also, as Spaniard pointed out, really would need a comparison study. Perhaps people whom have been using big doses of lecithin in the past didn't time it properly or the dosing wasn't correct to illicit the PA effects. I don't know but I really haven't seen anybody point out PA supplementation-type effects by dosing high amounts of lecithin.

well, what pa supplementation type effects are you referring to exactly? not that i hadnt heard about pa, i said i wanted to know if anybody in this thread has listed any benefits besides increased muscle fullness and a slight increase in strength with no specified weight added to sets; i could literrally report just as much to you all after eating white bread. you telling me you bought eight bottles because of that? ive taken lecithin and i cant say theres anything mindblowingly extraordinary about it, but i cant say that about the pa benefits ive heard enumerated here

 

[kissdadookie]

well, what pa supplementation type effects are you referring to exactly? not that i hadnt heard about pa, i said i wanted to know if anybody in this thread has listed any benefits besides increased muscle fullness and a slight increase in strength with no specified weight added to sets; i could literrally report just as much to you all after eating white bread. you telling me you bought eight bottles because of that? ive taken lecithin and i cant say theres anything mindblowingly extraordinary about it, but i cant say that about the pa benefits ive heard enumerated here

What part of eating at maintenance and/or slightly below maintenance was not made explicitly clear? If I say this any more times, people are going to start complaining that I am repeating myself again

Scale weight shot up 3 lbs within the first 20 days on a diet that should not have seen weight gain.

I bought 7 or so more bottles of Micro-PA and then later 4 bottles of OG King because of that. Technically I bought I think 6 additional Micro-PA bottles and then later 4 bottles of OG King. I initially bought 2 bottles of Micro-PA just to give it a try after hearing it on Prohormone Podcast as well as seeing the PA thread on here. Pretty much one of the very few members on this board and on the other big bb board to have actually used Micro-PA. The Micro-PA company is obviously not very well liked in these parts of the woods

 

[Touey]

What part of eating at maintenance and/or slightly below maintenance was not made explicitly clear? If I say this any more times, people are going to start complaining that I am repeating myself again

Scale weight shot up 3 lbs within the first 20 days on a diet that should not have seen weight gain.

I bought 7 or so more bottles of Micro-PA and then later 4 bottles of OG King because of that. Technically I bought I think 6 additional Micro-PA bottles and then later 4 bottles of OG King. I initially bought 2 bottles of Micro-PA just to give it a try after hearing it on Prohormone Podcast as well as seeing the PA thread on here. Pretty much one of the very few members on this board and on the other big bb board to have actually used Micro-PA. The Micro-PA company is obviously not very well liked in these parts of the woods

weren't you taking clear muscle too

 

[kissdadookie]

weren't you taking clear muscle too

Ok, this may also probably be the 3rd time I'm going to say it again, so here goes at risk of sounding like a broken record:

I did not introduce HMB-FA/CM until about the start of the 3rd bottle of Micro-PA. That means I was on PA for about 40 days straight prior. It would have made NO SENSE to take out the PA when logging HMB-FA/CM because if I did that, it would not give a good representation of what HMB-FA/CM may bring to the table since taking out the PA would have been introducing a major secondary variable (with the first major variable being the HMB-FA/CM itself).

When you want to gauge if something new you introduce is doing something or not, you should not start removing stuff you have been on for a while already as that tosses major variables into the equation. If you are going to take stuff out, IMO you should take stuff out AND give yourself 30 days or so being off of whatever you have taken out as a wash out period.

 

[koi1214]

Ok, this may also probably be the 3rd time I'm going to say it again, so here goes at risk of sounding like a broken record:

I did not introduce HMB-FA/CM until about the start of the 3rd bottle of Micro-PA. That means I was on PA for about 40 days straight prior. It would have made NO SENSE to take out the PA when logging HMB-FA/CM because if I did that, it would not give a good representation of what HMB-FA/CM may bring to the table since taking out the PA would have been introducing a major secondary variable (with the first major variable being the HMB-FA/CM itself).
.

Maybe you should make that your signature:dunno: j/k!

 

[ELROCK]

Ok, this may also probably be the 3rd time I'm going to say it again, so here goes at risk of sounding like a broken record:

I did not introduce HMB-FA/CM until about the start of the 3rd bottle of Micro-PA. That means I was on PA for about 40 days straight prior. It would have made NO SENSE to take out the PA when logging HMB-FA/CM because if I did that, it would not give a good representation of what HMB-FA/CM may bring to the table since taking out the PA would have been introducing a major secondary variable (with the first major variable being the HMB-FA/CM itself).

When you want to gauge if something new you introduce is doing something or not, you should not start removing stuff you have been on for a while already as that tosses major variables into the equation. If you are going to take stuff out, IMO you should take stuff out AND give yourself 30 days or so being off of whatever you have taken out as a wash out period.

^This has to be at least the 5th time I have heard this from you... LOL

 

[Touey]

Ok, this may also probably be the 3rd time I'm going to say it again, so here goes at risk of sounding like a broken record:

I did not introduce HMB-FA/CM until about the start of the 3rd bottle of Micro-PA. That means I was on PA for about 40 days straight prior. It would have made NO SENSE to take out the PA when logging HMB-FA/CM because if I did that, it would not give a good representation of what HMB-FA/CM may bring to the table since taking out the PA would have been introducing a major secondary variable (with the first major variable being the HMB-FA/CM itself).

When you want to gauge if something new you introduce is doing something or not, you should not start removing stuff you have been on for a while already as that tosses major variables into the equation. If you are going to take stuff out, IMO you should take stuff out AND give yourself 30 days or so being off of whatever you have taken out as a wash out period.

ok GOSH!

so you gained 3 pounds in the first twenty days and you've been on it through several bottles amounting to what kind of results / lean mass gains

 

[kissdadookie]

ok GOSH!

so you gained 3 pounds in the first twenty days and you've been on it through several bottles amounting to what kind of results / lean mass gains

Reps went up steady quicker than what I was experiencing for long while prior. I switched to a good surplus on the second bottle and was able to not gain much bodyfat whilst getting new stretch marks. I measured when I saw the new stretch marks, arms grew close to .5"

Legs got thicker as well. Waist pretty much held steady. Lats also saw some growth as well as chest (modest chest gains though, my chest is a bitch to grow). Yes I measured with measuring tape

There's also better muscle fullness and density if that makes any sense. Things really went bananas when I added the HMB-FA in. Not that the HMB was anabolic but the recovery on that stuff is pretty astounding, though that stuff might not be suitable for all since to have it work the way we want it to, you really have to bang it out in the gym with frequency and volume (had about a week off HMB, felt the fatigue/drain from training really quick a few days after being off).

 

[Touey]

Reps went up steady quicker than what I was experiencing for long while prior. I switched to a good surplus on the second bottle and was able to not gain much bodyfat whilst getting new stretch marks. I measured when I saw the new stretch marks, arms grew close to .5"

Legs got thicker as well. Waist pretty much held steady. Lats also saw some growth as well as chest (modest chest gains though, my chest is a bitch to grow). Yes I measured with measuring tape

you'll have give the lecithin a go and if it works properly go to GNC and ask them to explain why they're thieving the dook of natty

 

[kissdadookie]

you'll have give the lecithin a go and if it works properly go to GNC and ask them to explain why they're thieving the dook of natty

I didn't get mine from gnc

By the time I run out of the supply I have at hand, I'm sure someone would have tried the regular lecithin route

 

[thescience]

What part of eating at maintenance and/or slightly below maintenance was not made explicitly clear? If I say this any more times, people are going to start complaining that I am repeating myself again

Scale weight shot up 3 lbs within the first 20 days on a diet that should not have seen weight gain.

I bought 7 or so more bottles of Micro-PA and then later 4 bottles of OG King because of that. Technically I bought I think 6 additional Micro-PA bottles and then later 4 bottles of OG King. I initially bought 2 bottles of Micro-PA just to give it a try after hearing it on Prohormone Podcast as well as seeing the PA thread on here. Pretty much one of the very few members on this board and on the other big bb board to have actually used Micro-PA. The Micro-PA company is obviously not very well liked in these parts of the woods

thanks for the info about the weight gain in the first 20 days. i remember you mentioning additional hunger when starting PA; am i correct in understanding you didnt eat more during that time then? i dont recall reading anything about your maintenence/below so you mustve said it during a period where i had tuned out of the thread. anyway, thanks for repeating yourself

 

[muscleupcrohn]

thanks for the info about the weight gain in the first 20 days. i remember you mentioning additional hunger when starting PA; am i correct in understanding you didnt eat more during that time then? i dont recall reading anything about your maintenence/below so you mustve said it during a period where i had tuned out of the thread. anyway, thanks for repeating yourself

I also experienced weight gain in the first few weeks of supplementing with PA. Here's my weight gain since starting it (total weight increase since starting PA, of course):

3 Weeks: +2.0lbs
4 Weeks: +5.0lbs
5 Weeks: +5.8lbs
7 Weeks: +5.0lbs

My diet has been essentially the same throughout the past 7 weeks; a bit over maintenance. Like kdd, I'm also running PA with HMB-FA.

At the 7 week point, chest and leg measurements are up 1/4" each, waist is down 1/4", and calves are up 1/2", although they're still a weak point of mine. I've made some good strength gains as well.

 

[SwolenONE]

^^^ Damn, those are impressive gains!

 

[paula]

Kis are you suggesting to stack PA with hmb-fa? If so, 2bottles of CM and 2 of PA worth a shot? Since CM are designnto run for 12weeks. I plan to runnit for 8weeks. I cant afford to do it for 12weeks lol. Is that ok for starter? Plan to bulk up this season.