I'm on Phosphatidic acid Ya'll

Spaniard said:
It's likely going to be PA free due to Chemi-Nutra losing the patent
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Hopefully not. I just ran two bottles and really like this stuff but I'm not paying whatever Biotest is getting for their PA product. You can still find King on eBay btw. I ordered a bottle a few days ago.
 
Spaniard said:
It's likely going to be PA free due to Chemi-Nutra losing the patent
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Doesn't make any sense because the other PA product is available in abundance and those are selling pretty well ASFAIK. Even if Chemi loses the patent, it doesn't mean they can't sell it I don't think, because it would make it an ingredient that doesn't belong to anyone. Thus all Chemi ends up with is a fancy trade name for an ingredient.

Doesn't matter. I have two more bottles of King with the Mediator in it. If they truly end up taking it out, guess I'mma just go back to the other PA product.
 
Just picked up 4 bottles of king before any re formulated bottles come out. I two will go back to micro pa if I have to.
 
Spaniard said:
It's likely going to be PA free due to Chemi-Nutra losing the patent
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What does this mean for us? More companies will come out with it? please explain?
 
fightnews said:
What does this mean for us? More companies will come out with it? please explain?
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Possibly but maybe not. Let's get De__eB in here. It sounds like there quite possibly may not be an influx of PA products like one would think due to the costly nature of the extraction process from soy lecithin
 
Spaniard said:
Possibly but maybe not. Let's get @Invalid Link Removed in here. It sounds like there quite possibly may not be an influx of PA products like one would think due to the costly nature of the extraction process from soy lecithin
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will chemi nutra still sell it you think?
 
fightnews said:
will chemi nutra still sell it you think?
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It would appear that they still make it since the other PA product is still fully stocked and that's a very popular product. My guess is maybe BPI is possibly waiting it out to see if any other raw provider has soy derived PA to sell since it's technically a open source ingredient (nobody currently holds a patent on it ASFAIK).
 
This just in, new formulation of King:

Prop blend 1 gram of:

Activator which consists of the following in the following order: PA, PS, phospho choline, phosphatidylethanolamine, phosphotidylinositiol
Niagen

That’s for a full 2 caps serving per day. Personally, I don’t like it. Smells like probably a lower dose of PA overall. Obviously they went with this to most likely save on cost (I’m sure ChemiNutra is selling their Mediator for a good amount of $$$).
 
kissdadookie said:
This just in, new formulation of King:

Prop blend 1 gram of:

Activator which consists of the following in the following order: PA, PS, phospho choline, phosphatidylethanolamine, phosphotidylinositiol
Niagen

That's for a full 2 caps serving per day. Personally, I don't like it. Smells like probably a lower dose of PA overall. Obviously they went with this to most likely save on cost (I'm sure ChemiNutra is selling their Mediator for a good amount of $$$).
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I really enjoyed the original king.
So why the new formulation ?
And 1 gram of prop blend ? Looks like really underdosed. The PA by itself is need to be 700 mg.
 
kissdadookie said:
This just in, new formulation of King:

Prop blend 1 gram of:

Activator which consists of the following in the following order: PA, PS, phospho choline, phosphatidylethanolamine, phosphotidylinositiol
Niagen

That's for a full 2 caps serving per day. Personally, I don't like it. Smells like probably a lower dose of PA overall. Obviously they went with this to most likely save on cost (I'm sure ChemiNutra is selling their Mediator for a good amount of $$$).
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I like the addition of PS and the fact that it still has PA in it. But, the PA will be most likely underdosed now. Any change in the price?
 
abudabu said:
I really enjoyed the original king.
So why the new formulation ?
And 1 gram of prop blend ? Looks like really underdosed. The PA by itself is need to be 700 mg.
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If you're a smaller guy, 450 mg's should suffice preworkout for PA. 750 mg's is the studied dose though, preworkout.

As for why the new formulation, most likely cost. ChemiNutra doesn't have the patent for PA anymore so that means anybody that can produce PA can put out the raw for it. So BPI most likely went with the cheaper alternative. What’s more worrying is that we don’t know the standardization for PA. ChemiNutra’s Mediator I think was standardized for a very high percentage of PA so you are guaranteed a certain amount of PA per gram.

ELROCK said:
I like the addition of PS and the fact that it still has PA in it. But, the PA will be most likely underdosed now. Any change in the price?
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Same price I believe. If you want PS though, might as well just get PS on it's own, probably at a higher dose and cheaper ultimately. The PA is really what one would have bought King for in the first place.

I just wish that I bought more OG King. LoL. Have 2 sealed King bottles left and 5 bottles of the other PA product ;)
 
alvin1 said:
Or they keep the pa at 750 and cut on the niagenwich is equally bad
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We don't know if there's still 750 mg's of PA in the product. My guess is... no there isn't.

Niagen is supposedly (as BPI has hinted at on a thread on another board) @ around 200mgs. So with the current formula, the total blend is 1 gram. That leaves 800 mg’sor so for PA IF they didn’t change the Niagen dose and if the Niagen dose wasoriginally around 200 mgs or so to begin with. ChemiNutra’s Mediator PA is likestandardized for 40% or so PA content (maybe lower, not sure, I would have tolook this up). Clearly 800 mgs or so does not leave a lot of room for PA. If we’relucky, we might get around 450 mgs of actual PA which would still make itefficacious (dosed preworkout) though 750 mgs would be preferable. Ultimatelythough, I find it highly unlikely that there’s anywhere near a comparableamount of PA in the new formula.
 
koi1214 said:
Stock up if you can!!
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I have so much PA in the closet as it is though, lol.

So, going back looking at Chemi's patent on PA, apparently you can get the lecithin up to 98% PA content. So I guess in theory the Activator in the new King could have that full dose of 750 mg's of PA...
 
Wonder why it doesn't say 750 anymore though...

They say it is cheaper which is good, buy I just got og bottles for 32 so I doubt its less than that.
 
Good to hear that PA is still 750.

I'm not huge but still my weight is 200 so not sure how much PA is enough for me.
For the new ingredients, I didn't checked on them but I think I read somewhere that the combo is good for myostatin/folystatin ratio.
Not sure what the required dose...
 
kissdadookie said:
This just in, new formulation of King:

Prop blend 1 gram of:

Activator which consists of the following in the following order: PA, PS, phospho choline, phosphatidylethanolamine, phosphotidylinositiol
Niagen

That’s for a full 2 caps serving per day. Personally, I don’t like it. Smells like probably a lower dose of PA overall. Obviously they went with this to most likely save on cost (I’m sure ChemiNutra is selling their Mediator for a good amount of $$$).
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lol def a lower dose going on there, i think the right dose is 750mg leaving only 250mg for 5 other ingredients. prob hardly any pa in there at all?
 
kissdadookie said:
If you're a smaller guy, 450 mg's should suffice preworkout for PA. 750 mg's is the studied dose though, preworkout.

As for why the new formulation, most likely cost. ChemiNutra doesn't have the patent for PA anymore so that means anybody that can produce PA can put out the raw for it. So BPI most likely went with the cheaper alternative. What’s more worrying is that we don’t know the standardization for PA. ChemiNutra’s Mediator I think was standardized for a very high percentage of PA so you are guaranteed a certain amount of PA per gram.



Same price I believe. If you want PS though, might as well just get PS on it's own, probably at a higher dose and cheaper ultimately. The PA is really what one would have bought King for in the first place.

I just wish that I bought more OG King. LoL. Have 2 sealed King bottles left and 5 bottles of the other PA product ;)
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you think the og king even has the right dose? seems like a shady company, u get what you pay for sometimes
 
kissdadookie said:
Just an update on the King, their rep just stated that the amount of PA is the same in the new stuff.
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prob lying, why not put it on the label then?
 
It is likely that this will be underdosed. The timing of the reformulation is what jumps out to me. Also that they are using prop blend on this product makes me feel uneasy. Cutler nutrition is affiliated with BPI. They have been known to do this once a product starts to take off. Hell the cutler like was reformulated right off the get go. King is a really interesting product and I have heard pretty good things about it let's hope the new version is just as good
 
fightnews said:
you think the og king even has the right dose? seems like a shady company, u get what you pay for sometimes
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I think the OG King had the efficacious dose of PA in it as per label. It was also a 2+ gram blend total daily serving. Highly doubt they put a lot of herbal extracts in it and just had it on the label as label dressing. With the new formula, theoretically they could have the right dose of PA in it. Going by the ChemiNutra denied patent on PA, lecithin could be concentrated for up to 98% PA content. Plus phosphatidylserine is most likely more expensive than PA to produce. So likely on the new label they show those things in Activator to again, make it appear like you are getting a lot of whiz bang for your buck but probably those things are in trace amounts if they truly standardized for high PA content.

Why did they go with this? Well, it’s the equivalent of going for the generic brand of drugs vs. the name brand drugs. The generic is basically the same thing but a lot cheaper. ChemiNutra probably charges a lot more for Mediator PA than one going out and sourcing a generic PA raw.
 
kissdadookie said:
I think the OG King had the efficacious dose of PA in it as per label. It was also a 2+ gram blend total daily serving. Highly doubt they put a lot of herbal extracts in it and just had it on the label as label dressing. With the new formula, theoretically they could have the right dose of PA in it. Going by the ChemiNutra denied patent on PA, lecithin could be concentrated for up to 98% PA content. Plus phosphatidylserine is most likely more expensive than PA to produce. So likely on the new label they show those things in Activator to again, make it appear like you are getting a lot of whiz bang for your buck but probably those things are in trace amounts if they truly standardized for high PA content.

Why did they go with this? Well, it’s the equivalent of going for the generic brand of drugs vs. the name brand drugs. The generic is basically the same thing but a lot cheaper. ChemiNutra probably charges a lot more for Mediator PA than one going out and sourcing a generic PA raw.
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well i was reading on ergolog that there is only 1 kind of pa that even works, soy derived si i hope they use the right stuff, im still going to stick with micro pa until something better comes along affordable enough to double dose. as it stands now i only take 4 caps a day because of cost
 
fightnews said:
well i was reading on ergolog that there is only 1 kind of pa that even works, soy derived si i hope they use the right stuff, im still going to stick with micro pa until something better comes along affordable enough to double dose. as it stands now i only take 4 caps a day because of cost
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Yup. The key here however is that PRODUCING PA right now is a free for all. ChemiNutra no longer has a patent on PA so that opens up the market for others to produce it, thus the price on the raw will naturally get driven down. When ChemiNutra had a patent pending on PA, they essentially of a monopoly of sorts on PA, they also get to set the price at whatever they feel like they can sell it for without fear of anybody else undercutting them on price.

So it's really like a generic vs. name brand type of situation now. That's not to say that King might be underdosed, but it certainly doesn't mean that it's definitively not efficaciously dosed either.

4 caps of Micro-PA is efficacious though. That brings the PA content to around 500 mgs. It could totally be the case that King has 450-500 mgs at least of PA in it. That would still make the new King effective. Or it could be the case that they still have 750 mgs of PA in there.
 
The Amount of PA is the same as the OG version. Using our own source allows us to offer King at a much lower price. Kiss will be the first member to receive a bottle to review and post his thoughts.
 
TheFugitive said:
The Amount of PA is the same as the OG version. Using our own source allows us to offer King at a much lower price. Kiss will be the first member to receive a bottle to review and post his thoughts.
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^ Yah heard the guy folks ;)

Generic vs brand name of a raw would usually resulted in pricing advantage going towards the generic.
 
koi1214 said:
You going to log it?
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No more logging anything for me for a good long while. LoL. Not having to log everything during workouts saves me about 15 minutes in the gym :P

Just to note to folks and get it across that I haven't been posting positive feedback for King (OG formula at least) due to getting freebies, I've been using King purchased out of my own pocket ;) Bought a total of 4 bottles, almost done with the second bottle.
 
I thought KDD didn't like getting free supplements? ;)
 
bdcc said:
I thought KDD didn't like getting free supplements? ;)
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Well, I am in the hole already for 4 bottles of the OG formula. So what giving this free new formula a go will just illicit my feedback on if the stuff appears to work or not :P

As you can tell on the earlier posts above, I have stated that things could go either way, maybe it's underdosed, maybe it's efficaciously dosed. What we do know is that instead of using the name brand PA (Mediator), they are now using generic PA (or the equivalent of what one would think of as generic).

But I know you're just messing with me Sir Ben, cover boy of all PES adverts with a model appearing in them :D
 
kissdadookie said:
Well, I am in the hole already for 4 bottles of the OG formula. So what giving this free new formula a go will just illicit my feedback on if the stuff appears to work or not :P

As you can tell on the earlier posts above, I have stated that things could go either way, maybe it's underdosed, maybe it's efficaciously dosed. What we do know is that instead of using the name brand PA (Mediator), they are now using generic PA (or the equivalent of what one would think of as generic).

But I know you're just messing with me Sir Ben, cover boy of all PES adverts with a model appearing in them :D
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I knew someone would make the joke so thought it may as well be me lol. :)
 
Perfect timing...placed an order two bottles, then was told they are out of stock and waiting on reformulated version...now waiting on the new version.

I guess only two bottles so if it doesn't work I won't buy again ;-)
 
Shin Sprints said:
Perfect timing...placed an order two bottles, then was told they are out of stock and waiting on reformulated version...now waiting on the new version.

I guess only two bottles so if it doesn't work I won't buy again ;-)
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Hope you only got charged for the lower pricing. It should cost no more than $30 a bottle now.
 
Is the old king legit? Or the new one is more properly dosed in PA? And they elimnate some herbs?
 
TheFugitive said:
The Amount of PA is the same as the OG version. Using our own source allows us to offer King at a much lower price. Kiss will be the first member to receive a bottle to review and post his thoughts.
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Yeah but is it soy derived PA?
 
kissdadookie said:
Yup. The key here however is that PRODUCING PA right now is a free for all. ChemiNutra no longer has a patent on PA so that opens up the market for others to produce it, thus the price on the raw will naturally get driven down. When ChemiNutra had a patent pending on PA, they essentially of a monopoly of sorts on PA, they also get to set the price at whatever they feel like they can sell it for without fear of anybody else undercutting them on price.

So it's really like a generic vs. name brand type of situation now. That's not to say that King might be underdosed, but it certainly doesn't mean that it's definitively not efficaciously dosed either.

4 caps of Micro-PA is efficacious though. That brings the PA content to around 500 mgs. It could totally be the case that King has 450-500 mgs at least of PA in it. That would still make the new King effective. Or it could be the case that they still have 750 mgs of PA in there.
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How do we know its the soy derived phosphatidic acid though? I need more then just a trust us it is type thing
 
then just don't buy it lol

if two bottles this = 1 bottle micro PA i don't see the debate lol, and I have zero affiliation with either company
 
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