Recommendations for recovery and fatigue

Kurono

Member
So, I'm pretty fatigued from dieting down and I spend a good portion of the day lying down instead of doing anything important. Fun things like video games, movies also are a drag. I feel it in my chest where the heart tends to pump harder or just general malaise.

I really have low energy and the gym is kicking my azz instead of going in like King Kong.

I need something that's good on the adrenals! What do you recommend? Those guys from Mind and Muscle recommended GHenerate, which seems pretty interesting.

btw, I'm on a LOW CARB diet, so I can't be taking in carb recovery formulas, though those work pretty good.
 
Your low carb diet could very well be a culprit. What made you choose low carb? And what is low carb to you?
 
Def agree. I don't mine lowering my carbs here and there. But the low carb diet just isn't my style. I am not saying it doesn't work though. Just got to be very careful when you cut them to low. Make sure your one some kinda multi's. As far as recovery throw some BCAA's in your mix. Nothing fancy but a solid one post workout and at night helps me. Invalid Link Removed
 
1558 is BMR. I'm ending up eating around 1400 calories, but aiming around 1500. I tried higher calories but I didn't lose fat for a few weeks. My basal temp isn't very high so I have to eat the lower end of the spectrum.

Anyways, I've used Metabolic/Anabolic diet in the past with phenomenal results. Even Charles Poliquin will vouch for it. I lost 55 lbs from 200 to 145 on it 3 years ago and maintained 90% of the results for 3 straight years on a slightly higher carb diet. It only took me 2.5 months and the first 19 lbs went down in 21 days. My energy was never much of a problem. I tried every moderate carb, high carb diet for months on end to the T and didn't get any results until I fixed insulin resistance? (I read many have hidden forms) with low carb cyclic diet.

It is only recently that I feel winded.

PACKERS6211
I think BCAAS should help! I actually don't have a protein powder atm, and with my past success I did use protein powder once a day and didn't have recovery issues. I think this is where I should start
 
Yeah bro check out Pes Select protein. It's solid and doesn't clean your bank account out. Invalid Link Removed Hope you get to feeling more energy back.
 
Ok bro. Btw, why the heck is Whey protein so expensive these days? It's like liquid gold. Only 3 yrs ago 5 lbs goes for $40.
 
I don't know either bc there's so many of it. It's not like it's hard to make. But also a lot of proteins have added ammino's and even some with digestive enzeymes. I remember the old days bro. The good days when eph was legal. Man Ultimate Orange was the shizzzzz.
 
LOL, I remember Ultimate Orange! I got a sample and that one time I used it, I felt like I could bench press the whole gym lol.

Ephedra isn't totally illegal. You can still get it in UK mail order supplement stores, Bronkaid online, pharmacies or for the black market they sell it at places that carry Clen. I could get a nice ECA stack but It's not the right time for me to use it.
 
another good one that helps with better overall sleep, which helped me with fatigue and recovery is SNS' Growth Factor XT: Invalid Link Removed

or a good amino acid formula intra workout can help too, like PES' Amino IV: Invalid Link Removed

I've used both in my arsenal and I love and recommend both!

Use the code in my sig for 8% off too buddy if you decide to check it out. But ultimately these can aid recovery, diet is the most important factor
 
packers6211 said:
I don't know either bc there's so many of it. It's not like it's hard to make. But also a lot of proteins have added ammino's and even some with digestive enzeymes. I remember the old days bro. The good days when eph was legal. Man Ultimate Orange was the shizzzzz.
Click to expand...

Cost of Raw Materials is why, if companies are still selling for under 10$/lb it may be fishy, and make sure you get a 3rd party test to verify your not getting a protein that is spiking with low grade BCAA's or fillers (why companies can still sell at a lower price) you get what you pay for. All raw materials have increased hence why supplement prices have increased.
 
Op, i would say to you. workout out your macros, do not eat poverty macros for no reason. 1500 calories sounds retarded, but i don't know your stats or background. so i can't provide feedback without guessing. you say you "couldn't lose fat on higher calories" well if your not tracking, every single macro you put down your throat, your in the dark in terms of knowing if your actually losing weight, or in a deficit each day.

so first, workout your macros. then i say opt for lower fats, moderate carbs and higher protein. carbs will spare more muscle, and keep you more metabolically healthy, to continue to drop fat. so keep them in as long as you can, but unless your tracking once again, you have no control over or know if you can or can't drop/increase carbs. and don't think your on low fats forever, its only short term and won't make any difference as long as your fiber, micros, sleep and water are in check, along with controlling stress and manipulating your diet with wholefoods, and 10-20% (treats) or something that you would like to fit into your macros to enjoy food a bit, and keep you more mentally healthy in the long run to avoid binge eating after the diets over.

as for speeding up fat loss even further, add in MISS, and HIIT Cardio sessions. start with x3 MISS sessions per week (roughly 30-45mins, burning 300 calories). then as fat loss stalls, simply increase it to, 400, 450, 500. and add in x1 HIIT session (sprints, 30 all out / 90 seconds rest) for 5-8 intervals.

now, supplement wise.

for adrenal issues i would try this. im using it now, lower your stims and it will work like magic, improving your sleep and response to stims. best used while on a break, but if that's not an option, just lower them right down.

Invalid Link Removed

Then i would go for some serbian ginseng, (AnaBeta Elite) would work perfect.

and then CistaMax should speed up your endurance and recovery allot if you have been over doing it.
Invalid Link Removed
 
Don't eat under your BMR. BMR is what your burn doing nothing, so once you add in lifting, you are in one hell of a deficit. You're metabolism is slowed and you will be holding onto most of the food you eat.

Increase your calories, I would refeed asap. You must be very flat as well.
 
EatMoar said:
Don't eat under your BMR. BMR is what your burn doing nothing, so once you add in lifting, you are in one hell of a deficit. You're metabolism is slowed and you will be holding onto most of the food you eat. Increase your calories, I would refeed asap. You must be very flat as well.
Click to expand...

This 100%

OP has either miscalculated BMR or us doing something very wrong
 
Driven2lift said:
This 100%

OP has either miscalculated BMR or us doing something very wrong
Click to expand...

No he calculated it correctly, he just went off the wrong numbers TDEE and BMR are quite different. I can't imagine eating under 2200 calories let alone 1400 lol, I'd shrivel up.
 
OP whats your age height and weight? maybe we can help you adjust a bit.. BMR is exactly what chef bob said.. my BMR was roughly 3400@235lbs so Op has to be fairly light... even if he is in the"sedentary category".
 
Hi, yea I'm fairly light. I weighed in this morning at 145 lbs, 5'7" and 13.7% bf 125lbm/19.5 fat
My diet is working, I lost 2% body fat during the week . Previous stats were 146 15.7% bf 123lbm and 22lb fat and the week before I was 145, 16.6%bf 121lbm/24lb fat.
When i restarted the program In June, I was 18% bf and 153.

I think it would be pretty immature to change my macros if I'm gaining LBM and losing bf weekly very consistently. However, at the end chapters for Metabolic/Anabolic diet, it does say that you must add calories typically on this diet, as one can eat more calories on high fat /low carb compared to a moderate carb dieter. Why not just trust the diet? Charles Poliquin and Mauro are veteran experts in their field.

So what I believe is that I'm having user error. Its more safe to assume that myself, the user is making errors, rather than the diet.
But as you guys put, I'm eating below threshold and probably incorrectly accounting for Protein grams in my chicken thighs or something. Right now I'm looking at it more carefully. It's kinda hard since the meat has bone in it.

My diet macro is 50% fat/30% pro and 20% or less carbs, but I think my carbs on most days are 5%. The program also states that individuals may need to adjust from 30 carbs a day to 60 a day or 90 even depending on progress and how you feel. So its possible i could add a few more carbs and still be on terms with the diet and definitely get in 30 grams or more of protein. My blood tests show that I've doubled my HDL and reduced my LDL since 6 months ago, so I don't need to be preached that high fat diets are bad.

But no, if I were to mass bulk gain, i'd gain 90% fat. So i need to cut down first. I'm not losing, but GAINING mass during the week, so the only culprit is a bit of exhaustion. I am say about 20% better than last week though. I was pretty much winded.

How do you guys calculate TDEE? I find those numbers very general. It says 6x a week activity, but how long? A person working out intensely vs a person working out 1 minute vs a person working out 200 minutes. How can you go by that? Most of my training is bodyweight programs and I don't think I'm burning nearly as much calories as you guys--plus you guys are 3x the size of me in just MUSCLE. You guys look pretty swole! I really don't want to go into my whole life story to why I'm using a calisthenics body weight program... The first calculator on google is just too general.

How about eating 1800? If i stall on progress, I could always cut back again. Physicalgreatness on YT says he eats 1800 calories and he's 180 lbs, swole as hell during his cut cycles.
 
Tell ya what man^^ imma get you a carb cycling article you can read up on, its worked wonders for me bulking and cutting, it helps you calculate your TDEE and BMR. helped me lean bulk and slowly cut without feeling like death on low carbs ok? If you can do a little bit of reading and math this will help quite a bit, at least it did for me!

EDIT:Invalid Link Removed here ya go, scrolling down to the bottom gets you a good estimate on how to go about it and figure everything out
 
Hey thanks Ithrow. Well, I'm definitely up for it. I've been reading a lot, so my brain is also gaining Lbm ;)
 
Kurono said:
Hey thanks Ithrow. Well, I'm definitely up for it. I've been reading a lot, so my brain is also gaining Lbm ;)
Click to expand...

not a problem, pm me if youd like help so we dont keep posting in here since its getting off topic. Im no dietitian/PT but ive been at the game for a while and can help a bit! not as much as most of these other guys but I do what I can.
 
iThrow said:
Tell ya what man^^ imma get you a carb cycling article you can read up on, its worked wonders for me bulking and cutting, it helps you calculate your TDEE and BMR. helped me lean bulk and slowly cut without feeling like death on low carbs ok? If you can do a little bit of reading and math this will help quite a bit, at least it did for me!

EDIT:Invalid Link Removed here ya go, scrolling down to the bottom gets you a good estimate on how to go about it and figure everything out
Click to expand...

This method is very very good. Most effective way to gain mass while minimizing fat gain.
 
Auslifter said:
Op, i would say to you. workout out your macros, do not eat poverty macros for no reason. 1500 calories sounds retarded, but i don't know your stats or background. so i can't provide feedback without guessing. you say you "couldn't lose fat on higher calories" well if your not tracking, every single macro you put down your throat, your in the dark in terms of knowing if your actually losing weight, or in a deficit each day.

so first, workout your macros. then i say opt for lower fats, moderate carbs and higher protein. carbs will spare more muscle, and keep you more metabolically healthy, to continue to drop fat. so keep them in as long as you can, but unless your tracking once again, you have no control over or know if you can or can't drop/increase carbs. and don't think your on low fats forever, its only short term and won't make any difference as long as your fiber, micros, sleep and water are in check, along with controlling stress and manipulating your diet with wholefoods, and 10-20% (treats) or something that you would like to fit into your macros to enjoy food a bit, and keep you more mentally healthy in the long run to avoid binge eating after the diets over.

as for speeding up fat loss even further, add in MISS, and HIIT Cardio sessions. start with x3 MISS sessions per week (roughly 30-45mins, burning 300 calories). then as fat loss stalls, simply increase it to, 400, 450, 500. and add in x1 HIIT session (sprints, 30 all out / 90 seconds rest) for 5-8 intervals.

now, supplement wise.

for adrenal issues i would try this. im using it now, lower your stims and it will work like magic, improving your sleep and response to stims. best used while on a break, but if that's not an option, just lower them right down.

Invalid Link Removed

Then i would go for some serbian ginseng, (AnaBeta Elite) would work perfect.

and then CistaMax should speed up your endurance and recovery allot if you have been over doing it.
Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

thanks for the adrenosurge recommendation, it is exactly what i was going to recommend!!!
 
You are not eating nearly enough. I would slowly raise the calories to maintenance level and take a diet break for a couple of weeks to a month until you are feeling better. The way you are going you are on a road to hormonal hell, don't go down this path my friend you don't need to starve yourself to lose body fat.
 
Auslifter said:
been working well for me. perfect for anyone in a deficit.
Click to expand...

another thing i have noticed is that adrenosurge makes everything i take more effective, including test boosters, but particularly stimulants.
 
Kurono said:
So, I'm pretty fatigued from dieting down and I spend a good portion of the day lying down instead of doing anything important. Fun things like video games, movies also are a drag. I feel it in my chest where the heart tends to pump harder or just general malaise.

I really have low energy and the gym is kicking my azz instead of going in like King Kong.

I need something that's good on the adrenals! What do you recommend? Those guys from Mind and Muscle recommended GHenerate, which seems pretty interesting.

btw, I'm on a LOW CARB diet, so I can't be taking in carb recovery formulas, though those work pretty good.
Click to expand...
how many rest days do you take a week? when was the last time you deloaded?
 
What is Deloaded? I know what reloading carbs is, but deloaded? huh

Rest, what's that? No , JK. I take Sunday off and Saturday. But I walk everyday 2.5 miles every single day.

As I said before, if I make 10 threads, I'll be prescribed 10 diets x each user. I also did not ask for a diet, so no one should take it personally if I did not take their suggestion.
I'll go ahead and take supplement suggestions, bump the calories up. I may try other carb cycling methods listed here when I'm done with this program. Once the diet stops working, and i'm 100% sure that is no longer users error, then that will be the time.It is because that is already very effective in manipulating body composition. A modification here and there is fine, but then just changing to a whole new diet after you haven't finished one program yet? ... Why not change the diet every few days someone makes a suggestion? I really don't think anyone was listening anyways.

The point is, I can only be on one diet at a time.

Unfortunately, I have a bodytype of an Ectomorph (6" wrists) but have high body fat around the waist and chest. My hormone and bf% levels are not optimized to mass gain.

Things to be doing now:
TDEE is marked around 2300 calories. Minus 500 =1800. So bump it to 1800 in Protein.
No additional carbs need to be added.


Optional, some or all of the above to be used at once. They all look very good!
Whey powder?
Adrenosurge
Growth factor XT

Thanks guys for taking the time!

fightnews said:
how many rest days do you take a week? when was the last time you deloaded?
Click to expand...
 
Kurono said:
1558 is BMR. I'm ending up eating around 1400 calories, but aiming around 1500. I tried higher calories but I didn't lose fat for a few weeks. My basal temp isn't very high so I have to eat the lower end of the spectrum.

Anyways, I've used Metabolic/Anabolic diet in the past with phenomenal results. Even Charles Poliquin will vouch for it. I lost 55 lbs from 200 to 145 on it 3 years ago and maintained 90% of the results for 3 straight years on a slightly higher carb diet. It only took me 2.5 months and the first 19 lbs went down in 21 days. My energy was never much of a problem. I tried every moderate carb, high carb diet for months on end to the T and didn't get any results until I fixed insulin resistance? (I read many have hidden forms) with low carb cyclic diet.

It is only recently that I feel winded.

PACKERS6211
I think BCAAS should help! I actually don't have a protein powder atm, and with my past success I did use protein powder once a day and didn't have recovery issues. I think this is where I should start
Click to expand...

You go by TDEE not BMR. BMR neglects activity which comprises a huge portion of.your TDEE.

Your kcals are likely too low coupled with low carb, you are going to feel like crap.

Add in refeeds weekly as well
 
Kurono said:
So, I'm pretty fatigued from dieting down and I spend a good portion of the day lying down instead of doing anything important. Fun things like video games, movies also are a drag. I feel it in my chest where the heart tends to pump harder or just general malaise.

I really have low energy and the gym is kicking my azz instead of going in like King Kong.

I need something that's good on the adrenals! What do you recommend? Those guys from Mind and Muscle recommended GHenerate, which seems pretty interesting.

btw, I'm on a LOW CARB diet, so I can't be taking in carb recovery formulas, though those work pretty good.
Click to expand...

Look in to epicatechin ; EP1C has been helping people in a recomp style diet scenario and helping with cardiovascular support, recovery, and giving people ample amounts of energy in the gym.
 
Olympus Labs said:
Look in to epicatechin ; EP1C has been helping people in a recomp style diet scenario and helping with cardiovascular support, recovery, and giving people ample amounts of energy in the gym.
Click to expand...

Anecdotally working as a thermogenic of some kind. Increases body temperature and seems to decrease the needed to catch breath between sets.
 
Epi is going to be your go to in this arena. Follidrone is the original and highest concentration and there are numerous other clones coming out, so it is worth looking into. Outside of that, it sounds boring, but rhodiola is very much worth looking into.
 
kisaj said:
Epi is going to be your go to in this arena. Follidrone is the original and highest concentration and there are numerous other clones coming out, so it is worth looking into. Outside of that, it sounds boring, but rhodiola is very much worth looking into.
Click to expand...
highest concentration? So you are saying follidrone has more then the 300mg epi per cap that ep1c has now? Pretty sure i read a brundell post on bb.com that said it was only a little over 100mg epi per cap
 
Follidrone loggers and most current posters are finding pre workout without food seems to be the most favorable. I'd imagine it is going to be the same for other (-)-epi products.
 
Olympus Labs said:
Look in to epicatechin ; EP1C has been helping people in a recomp style diet scenario and helping with cardiovascular support, recovery, and giving people ample amounts of energy in the gym.
Click to expand...

Been taking two caps a day. The bottle just says 1-3. Is 2 what you would recommend ?
 
Kurono said:
What is Deloaded? I know what reloading carbs is, but deloaded? huh

Rest, what's that? No , JK. I take Sunday off and Saturday. But I walk everyday 2.5 miles every single day.

As I said before, if I make 10 threads, I'll be prescribed 10 diets x each user. I also did not ask for a diet, so no one should take it personally if I did not take their suggestion.
I'll go ahead and take supplement suggestions, bump the calories up. I may try other carb cycling methods listed here when I'm done with this program. Once the diet stops working, and i'm 100% sure that is no longer users error, then that will be the time.It is because that is already very effective in manipulating body composition. A modification here and there is fine, but then just changing to a whole new diet after you haven't finished one program yet? ... Why not change the diet every few days someone makes a suggestion? I really don't think anyone was listening anyways.

The point is, I can only be on one diet at a time.

Unfortunately, I have a bodytype of an Ectomorph (6" wrists) but have high body fat around the waist and chest. My hormone and bf% levels are not optimized to mass gain.

Things to be doing now:
TDEE is marked around 2300 calories. Minus 500 =1800. So bump it to 1800 in Protein.
No additional carbs need to be added.


Optional, some or all of the above to be used at once. They all look very good!
Whey powder?
Adrenosurge
Growth factor XT

Thanks guys for taking the time!
Click to expand...
deloading is when you lift light for week to facilitate recovery, its recomended like every 4th week. it works if you're lifting heavy all the time. also i think you should have at least 1 full day off from everything
 
fightnews said:
highest concentration? So you are saying follidrone has more then the 300mg epi per cap that ep1c has now? Pretty sure i read a brundell post on bb.com that said it was only a little over 100mg epi per cap
Click to expand...

I understand you are here to stir up an argument as usual, but the epi battles are old news.
 
Ya ok a simple yes or no answer would be good? I guess thats to much to ask?
 
fightnews said:
Ya ok a simple yes or no answer would be good? I guess thats to much to ask?
Click to expand...

They have addressed this several times now actually, based on the label alone we know it is over 250mg/cap.
Brundel will not be disclosing an exact amount
 
Kurono said:
Catechin as in Green tea? Why not just drink green tea, or is the extract still better?
Click to expand...

Youd have to drink a lot of green tea
 
I cloud drink green tea all day....especially citrus flavor...nom nom
 
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