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Bulking- Non methyl's that don't convert to estrogen?

pl8tes

New member
I'm on a high surplus bulk running halo and epiandro. I'd like to toss in another compound during the last four weeks. I'm gyno prone so I would like something that doesn't convert or cause any prolactin issues.

Seeing as how I'm already on one methyl as well, I'd like to keep the toxicity down. I was considering msten, but I'm not 100% set yet.

What do you guys suggest?
 
Hi pl8tes,

Msten Extreme Mass Builder (methylstenbolone) is a good bulker that does not convert but is methylated. Max lmg is non meth, is a bulker but does have issues with prolactin so you could take Invalid Link Removed with it to off set the prolactin. 1-Andro by IronMagLabs a decent non methylated bulker and also good for strength, but is not as effective as msten or max lmg. Theres the info, hope it helps you make the best choice.
 
Thanks for the reply. I've been leaning towards msten at 20mg for four weeks. I'll just up the liver support a bit.
 
stann123 said:
Oh thatll make everything okay then
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Never said it would make everything ok. Considering that I'm only going to be running 3 caps halo and 2 caps msten, both of which are fairly mild, toxicity levels shouldn't be anything to be concerned with as long as I up the cycle support and keep water intake high. At least I think this is true...
 
So roughly 75mgs of halo and 24-30mgs of msten?
 
You should add nothing, most likely. There is nothing wrong with your cycle the way it is.

Msten is not "fairly mild". Mg for mg it's among the strongest compounds in existence. The only orals that are more potent are m1t, methyltren, and possibly SD.

pl8tes said:
I'm under the impression that at 20mg it is. I could be wrong though.

Should I just run tr3n for the four weeks and add in an anti prolactin?
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pl8tes said:
I'm under the impression that at 20mg it is. I could be wrong though.

Should I just run tr3n for the four weeks and add in an anti prolactin?
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4 weeks is pointless if you ask me..hell why not increase hdrol to 100mgs?
 
pl8tes said:
I'm under the impression that at 20mg it is. I could be wrong though.

Should I just run tr3n for the four weeks and add in an anti prolactin?
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The only thing you could do is bridge. But idk why you would, is this your first cycle?
 
stann123 said:
The only thing you could do is bridge. But idk why you would, is this your first cycle?
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Yes, first cycle. Trying to maximize what I can now so I don't run continuous cycles in the future.

Trying to do a "one and done," just to take my physique and strength a bit further.
 
pl8tes said:
I'm on a high surplus bulk running halo and epiandro. I'd like to toss in another compound during the last four weeks. I'm gyno prone so I would like something that doesn't convert or cause any prolactin issues.

Seeing as how I'm already on one methyl as well, I'd like to keep the toxicity down. I was considering msten, but I'm not 100% set yet.

What do you guys suggest?
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How long have you been on cycle already? If you are gyno prone I wouldnt suggest running any extended cycles ...eventually your gyno will get worse;)
 
mw1 said:
How long have you been on cycle already? If you are gyno prone I would suggest running any extended cycles ...eventually your gyno will get worse;)
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A bit over a week. Trying to stay away from any prolactin or estrogen products for that very reason. Epiandro converts to dht, which is shown to shrink gyno. Halo doesn't have any direct effect on it either from my understanding. I'm also going to be running nolva for an extended period to kill it off hopefully.
 
mw1 said:
How long have you been on cycle already? If you are gyno prone I would suggest running any extended cycles ...eventually your gyno will get worse;)
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"Wouldnt"?
 
stann123 said:
Well atleast you have a good pct.

Also there is no "one and done"
More doesn't = better
And nolva wont kill your gyno
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I've seen studies that show nolva, letro, and ralox for extended periods of 2+months can shrink it. Lots of people have had positive results with this too. Figure that it can't hurt.

EDIT:
Obviously not all of them... Just sticking with one of them.
 
pl8tes said:
I've seen studies that show nolva, letro, and ralox for extended periods of 2+months can shrink it. Lots of people have had positive results with this too. Figure that it can't hurt.

EDIT:
Obviously not all of them... Just sticking with one of them.
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Links to those studies? And im going to assume you have pubertal gyno
 
stann123 said:
Links to those studies? And im going to assume you have pubertal gyno
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I don't have the links with me (on phone), but you can just google nolva gyno reduction. When taken for an extended period of time it has been shown to shrink the gyno. If it doesn't work, ralox seems to be the next best bet. I've had this for the past 15 years.

Should I just do a tr3n cycle with an anti prolactin or is that still going to flare up the gyno issue? Would I need an AI as well, or just save it for pct?
 
No haha, don't actually follow any of my advice, that is a Dom Mazetti quote that was simply added for levity.
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Sorry for the confusion, I have very limited experience with anything other than SARMs and real test. Honestly, there are several more educated (or at least experienced :p) members on this board when it comes to PHs, listen to them.
 
uprightrows said:
No haha, don't actually follow any of my advice, that is a Dom Mazetti quote that was simply added for levity.


Sorry for the confusion, I have very limited experience with anything other than SARMs and real test. Honestly, there are several more educated (or at least experienced :p) members on this board when it comes to PHs, listen to them.
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Obviously not going to follow it haha.

Trying to stay away from injections.
 
No worries bro, best of luck with your cycle.

Only advice I can give (seriously this time) is the more you run, the more you gain, the less you keep, the sooner you think about getting back on. I have never seen a single person be one and done. Unless you are significantly below your natural potential (I was the first time I did, then again I was an idiot), you won't keep >60% of your gains even with perfect PCT, and once you think you are losing size, you'll start counting the days till the next time.

Use the minimum amount of compounds to get what you actually NEED, no sense blowing up off "one" cycle just to see it fade away.
 
Eehhh, not sure how I feel about that. In my own experience and with lab work to back it up osta is kind of supressive, I know people that are a lot bigger than I am and use it for "PCT", but they are more blast and cruise people who are on year round to some degree.

I feel like if its for a first timer, especially someone who only wants to run one cycle, its just going to make the return to homeostasis a longer process.
 
Don't get me wrong, the shutdown from osta is going to be minimal, but I feel like beginners should run it as a standalone only (for which it is surprisingly adequate at ~20mg ED for 6-8wks if your diet is dialed in), in my mind its a no-no for PCT for 1st cyclers.
 
pl8tes said:
I'm the complete opposite. I'd rather sacrifice some gains to make sure I recover properly in good health.
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If you're going to gain 12 lb and lose 6 what's the point of even cycling? You could provably gain that 6 lb over 2 months natty.
 
Mystere3 said:
If you're going to gain 12 lb and lose 6 what's the point of even cycling? You could provably gain that 6 lb over 2 months natty.
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Plan on gaining a hell of a lot more than 12lbs due to being a first cycle and high calories. Don't really care if I gain some fat along with it, I can just cut later. Trying to use this as an opportunity to gain as much strength/size as I can.

Also, how would formeron be in PCT as opposed to erase?
 
You might gain more weight than that but it'll be illusory water and muscle glycogen that will go away immediately when you stop your cycle. I meant lbm when I quoted the 12 lb.

You're not going to really get more than 10-12 lb sustainable lbm in a month no matter what you're taking. I have 1% genetics for muscle gain and gained maybe 15 lb lbm on methyltren. You might gain more weight than that but it won't be muscle.

Also, if you cared so much about health you certainly wouldn't think about stacking msten with another methyl.

Formeron is fine in pct.
 
Mystere3 said:
You might gain more weight than that but it'll be illusory water and muscle glycogen that will go away immediately when you stop your cycle. I meant lbm when I quoted the 12 lb.

You're not going to really get more than 10-12 lb sustainable lbm in a month no matter what you're taking. I have 1% genetics for muscle gain and gained maybe 15 lb lbm on methyltren. You might gain more weight than that but it won't be muscle.

Also, if you cared so much about health you certainly wouldn't think about stacking msten with another methyl.

Formeron is fine in pct.
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Due to the mild nature of halo/epiandro, what else should I toss in then? I'm not set on the msten, it just seemed like the best option with the lowest estrogen related sides for bulking.

Understandable on the 12lb LBM. I'm hoping to shoot up about 20lbs total, which shouldn't be too unreasonable for me. I naturally pile on weight extremely fast. Not all good weight, but the cycle should make it better.


edit

Also, if I were to use the formeron, would I just run that alongside with nolva as opposed to the DAA+erase as well?
 
I wouldn't stack a methyl and you should really run the halo for 6 weeks. Trest would be a good bulker, or hexadrone or max LMG.

Run formeron along with daa and novla.

pl8tes said:
Due to the mild nature of halo/epiandro, what else should I toss in then? I'm not set on the msten, it just seemed like the best option with the lowest estrogen related sides for bulking.

Understandable on the 12lb LBM. I'm hoping to shoot up about 20lbs total, which shouldn't be too unreasonable for me. I naturally pile on weight extremely fast. Not all good weight, but the cycle should make it better.


edit

Also, if I were to use the formeron, would I just run that alongside with nolva as opposed to the DAA+erase as well?
Click to expand...
 
Mystere3 said:
I wouldn't stack a methyl and you should really run the halo for 6 weeks. Trest would be a good bulker, or hexadrone or max LMG.

Run formeron along with daa and novla.
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The halo is a 6 week run, I'm just introducing a new compound for the last 4 weeks. Trest can cause estro sides though, correct?
 
Mystere3 said:
Uh what? Since when does aromatase convert dht? Might want to research your enzymes a little.
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Epiandro converts to DHT. Formeron inhibts DHT formation and activity. Am I wrong with this? I'm still new, this is just what I'm understanding from reading up on the compounds.
 
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