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New DMZ cycle

Yodambomb

Yodambomb

Banned
I am about to start a DMZ cycle (demonize) . It's dosed at 16mg per capsule and it's recommended to do 3 per day . I haven't read anything that negative about DMZ and I did the original one (DMZ-1) back in 2012 and saw serious size after 1 week but the lethargy kicked in as well but I wasn't on cycle supports that time . Anyways just recently I did a cycle of the new Spawn and had plenty of supps like fish oil , saw palmetto , red yeast rice and TuDca but I still had the blood pressure at around 150+ when I checked it like once or twice a week and pharmacists were telling me that wasn't dangerously high even though I didn't believe it . Basically what I'm asking on here is if the blood pressure is worth stressing over this time since it's only a single compound although it's strong and should I eat super healthy to avoid the BP problems ? That and is 48mg a day way too high ?
 
Yes blood pressure should be a concern. 150 is too high. Cialis isn't a bad way to reduce BP... you could try mild blood thinner too. Antaeus labs makes a good product called Talos that contains compounds to control blood pressure.
 
BigBlackGuy said:
Yes blood pressure should be a concern. 150 is too high. Cialis isn't a bad way to reduce BP... you could try mild blood thinner too. Antaeus labs makes a good product called Talos that contains compounds to control blood pressure.
Click to expand...
You think that the Talos is the best way to go with all the other supps that I already have like the red yeast and Hawthorn berry , etc or do you think that Cialis instead of the Talos would be a better idea ?
 
Yodambomb said:
You think that the Talos is the best way to go with all the other supps that I already have like the red yeast and Hawthorn berry , etc or do you think that Cialis instead of the Talos would be a better idea ?
Click to expand...
and what do you think of 48mg a day on the DMZ ?
 
stann123 said:
start at 2 caps for the first week
Click to expand...
Yeah and I'm not gonna start until I have that Talos , it looked legit with plenty of compounds and good dosages of it too . I saw massive size off the DMZ-1 when I did the 30mgs a day like it recommended and I barely worked out on it . But should I use clomid or just go with the strongest OTC pct which is from AnabolicAndrogenicReasearch (wickedpct or GorillaPharm) has the NMDA and 5ahydroxylagien in it . But at the same time idk if I kept my size because of that or the Nolva when I did the Spawn last time because everyone was dissing on Nolva when I told people that's what I was posting ...
 
I used to rep for Antaeus Labs, I might be a bit biased, but the formulator Jake is a damn good guy and knows his stuff. He also works very closely with Henryv (well known around the forums, probably the most knowledgeable poster on any forum I know of).

Start at 1 cap a day on the talos to see if the BP drops just from the lower dose. Up the dose accordingly.

48mg DMZ is a crapton btw... DMZ is right up there with methylsten and superdrol.
 
BigBlackGuy said:
I used to rep for Antaeus Labs, I might be a bit biased, but the formulator Jake is a damn good guy and knows his stuff. He also works very closely with Henryv (well known around the forums, probably the most knowledgeable poster on any forum I know of). Start at 1 cap a day on the talos to see if the BP drops just from the lower dose. Up the dose accordingly. 48mg DMZ is a crapton btw... DMZ is right up there with methylsten and superdrol.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm only gonna do the 32 and day of DMZ , it's like the 2nd strongest PH out there from what I've read up . So basically don't take the Talos until I've built up some DMZ in my system or wait and see if my BP is high ? Because I figured that it's gonna be high once it starts kicking in ...
 
Yodambomb said:
Yeah I'm only gonna do the 32 and day of DMZ , it's like the 2nd strongest PH out there from what I've read up . So basically don't take the Talos until I've built up some DMZ in my system or wait and see if my BP is high ? Because I figured that it's gonna be high once it starts kicking in ...
Click to expand...

Yep that's your best bet.
 
mw1 said:
If you are gonna run DMZ I would recommend a complete cycle support product like CEL's Cycle Assist
Click to expand...

Talos IS a complete cycle support. Includes liver/kidney and heart... plus he's taking a good bit of other stuff.
 
BigBlackGuy said:
Talos IS a complete cycle support. Includes liver/kidney and heart... plus he's taking a good bit of other stuff.
Click to expand...

A little article written by Synapsin:

Competitive Edge Lab’s (CEL) Cycle Assist
Cycle Assist is designed to be an all-in-one support solution for basic on cycle and post cycle therapy needs. Cycle Assist contains a combination of specifically dosed ingredients designed to help provide liver, blood pressure, cholesterol, prostate, and acne support (1-35).

Also, unlike many other products in its class, every herb in Cycle Assist is a standardized extract and the standardization amount is clearly identified on the label. This is extremely important because it is the amount of active ingredient that an herb is standardized for that determines the level of benefits received from it. Example: A product can be dosed very high in mg of herb powder, but standardized poorly and therefore offer very little if anything in terms of effectiveness.
This article will serve as a comprehensive guide to the most important ingredients in Cycle Assist.
N-Acetyl-l-Cysteine (NAC) is used in the management of drug overdose (such as acetaminophen), and acts as a mucolytic agent. The inclusion of NAC in Cycle Assist is due to its protective effects on the liver and kidney. It is possibly one of the most effective over the counter products available on the market for protecting your liver from damage (1-13).
Milk Thistle is perhaps one of the most famous herbs in the world, widely known for its liver protective effects. Research on milk thistle has suggested that it is both capable of preventing liver damage AND repairing liver damage (14-18).
Pantothenic Acid has been shown to lower free cholesterol, triglyceride counts, and total cholesterol in the liver (19).
Hawthorn Berry Extract has been shown to potentially help with chronic heart failure, fatigue, palpitations, and dyspnea (20-21).
Vitamin B-6 (Pyridoxine HCl) can protect individuals from cardiovascular disease by lowering homocysteine levels in the blood (22-23).
Saw Palmetto Extract is a popular men’s health herbal product, most commonly used for benign prostatic hyperplasia. Users often take it while on cycle for prostate health benefits. It has also been suggested to help with male pattern baldness (24-28).
Celery Seed Extract has been suggested to lower blood sugar, decrease blood pressure, promote relaxation, and protect the liver from damage (29-30).
Grape Seed Extract can potentially improve symptoms of hypertension, lower high levels of blood cholesterol, inflammation, and improve liver function (31-33).
Policosanol can potentially improve your cholesterol levels by lowering levels of LDL (bad cholesterol) while simultaneously improving levels of HDL (good cholesterol) (34-35).
Antaeus Labs Talos
Since the release of CEL’s Cycle Assist, many companies have tried to release their own version of Cycle Assist, but they all pale in comparison to Cycle Assist, the best on cycle product on the market. One such product is Antaeus Labs’ product “Talos”. A comprehensive review of the literature has revealed that this product is nothing more than pixie dust, filled with many ingredients at either meaningless doses, lacking any extract information, or ingredients that have zero applications in humans (with little to no animal research either).
The only overlapping ingredients in Talos that overlaps with Cycle Assist is Vitamin B6. Cycle Assist not only states what form of Vitamin B6 we use (this actually matters), but also has a higher dosage of B6.
The main ingredients in Talos are the following:
Prunus Cerasus (Sour Cherry)
Matrine
Trans-Resveratrol
Dunaliella salina extract (10% 9-Cis-Beta Carotene)
Salicin
Astaxanthin
Prunus Cerasus (Sour Cherry) only has one real study on it. The study has no data on its usage in humans, its only data conducted on cell cultures, and it’s only suggested function is that it may act as an antioxidant. It is virtually useless for usage as an on cycle product (36).
Matrine has been suggested to act as an analgesic and an anti-cancer agent, but again, that is irrelevant to an individual running a cycle. Its anti-cancer properties (specifically breast cancer) would be more relevant for usage during PCT rather than on cycle, and it has no human data to confirm such a conclusion that is indeed effective for that usage (37-38).
Trans-Resveratrol is a very popular buzz product (and it has been the last few year), but nobody is quite sure what it actually does yet. It suffers from huge bio-availability issues (oral resveratrol bio-availability is nearly zero), and the dose in Talos (50 mg), is worthless in humans (39).
Dunaliella salina extract (10% 9-Cis-Beta Carotene) is a head scratcher. It has one study on the effects of cancer of proventriculus in mice, and a few studies evaluating its efficacy as a potential antimicrobial. This ingredient has no place in an on cycle product, and truly shows how much of a filler in is (40-41).
Salicin is the one ingredient in this product has that any real benefit, but the dosage in this product is far too low for users to feel any benefit.
Astaxanthin is similar to Dunaliella salina extract in that it is an antioxidant that neutralizes free radicals in the eye and nervous system. Its inclusion in an on cycle product, however, is meaningless because it is primarily used by individuals to promote ocular health, which is not a real concern for those on cycle.

And there you have it, a comprehensive review of the best on cycle product on the market (Cycle Assist) versus the latest pretender (Talos). Not only does Cycle Assist include a variety of standardized herbal extracts with clinical trials in humans, but it also includes them at physiologically relevant dosages
 
References:
References:
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2. Dilger, R. N.; Baker, D. H. (2007). "Oral N-acetyl-L-cysteine is a safe and effective precursor of cysteine". Journal of Animal Science 85 (7): 1712–8. doi:10.2527/jas.2006-835. PMID 17371789.
3. Kanter, M. Z. (2006). "Comparison of oral and i.v. Acetylcysteine in the treatment of acetaminophen poisoning". American Journal of Health-System Pharmacy 63 (19): 1821–7. doi:10.2146/ajhp060050. PMID 16990628.
4. Dawson, AH; Henry, DA; McEwen, J (1989). "Adverse reactions to N-acetylcysteine during treatment for paracetamol poisoning". The Medical journal of Australia 150 (6): 329–31. PMID 2716644.
5. Bailey, B; McGuigan, M (1998). "Management of Anaphylactoid Reactions to Intravenous -Acetylcysteine". Annals of Emergency Medicine 31 (6): 710–5. doi:10.1016/S0196-0644(98)70229-X. PMID 9624310.
6. Schmidt, L. E.; Dalhoff, K (2008). "Risk factors in the development of adverse reactions to N-acetylcysteine in patients with paracetamol poisoning". British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology 51 (1): 87–91. doi:10.1046/j.1365-2125.2001.01305.x. PMC 2014432. PMID 11167669.
7. Lynch, R; Robertson, R (2004). "Anaphylactoid reactions to intravenous N-acetylcysteine: a prospective case controlled study". Accident and Emergency Nursing 12 (1): 10–5. doi:10.1016/j.aaen.2003.07.001. PMID 14700565
8. Tepel, Martin; Van Der Giet, Marcus; Schwarzfeld, Carola; Laufer, Ulf; Liermann, Dieter; Zidek, Walter (2000). "Prevention of Radiographic-Contrast-Agent–Induced Reductions in Renal Function by Acetylcysteine". New England Journal of Medicine 343 (3): 180–4. doi:10.1056/NEJM200007203430304. PMID 10900277.
9. Hoffmann, U.; Fischereder, M; Krüger, B; Drobnik, W; Krämer, BK (2004). "The Value of N-Acetylcysteine in the Prevention of Radiocontrast Agent-Induced Nephropathy Seems Questionable". Journal of the American Society of Nephrology 15 (2): 407–10. doi:10.1097/01.ASN.0000106780.14856.55. PMID 14747387.
10. Miner, S; Dzavik, V; Nguyen-Ho, P; Richardson, R; Mitchell, J; Atchison, D; Seidelin, P; Daly, P; Ross, J et al. (2004). "N-acetylcysteine reduces contrast-associated nephropathy but not clinical events during long-term follow-up". American Heart Journal 148 (4): 690–5. doi:10.1016/j.ahj.2004.05.015. PMID 15459602.
11. Marenzi, Giancarlo; Assanelli, Emilio; Marana, Ivana; Lauri, Gianfranco; Campodonico, Jeness; Grazi, Marco; De Metrio, Monica; Galli, Stefano; Fabbiocchi, Franco et al. (2006). "N-Acetylcysteine and Contrast-Induced Nephropathy in Primary Angioplasty". New England Journal of Medicine 354 (26): 2773–82. doi:10.1056/NEJMoa054209. PMID 16807414.
12. Kay, J.; Chow, WH; Chan, TM; Lo, SK; Kwok, OH; Yip, A; Fan, K; Lee, CH; Lam, WF (2003). "Acetylcysteine for Prevention of Acute Deterioration of Renal Function Following Elective Coronary Angiography and Intervention: A Randomized Controlled Trial". JAMA 289 (5): 553–8. doi:10.1001/jama.289.5.553. PMID 12578487.
13. Act, Investigators (September 2011). "Acetylcysteine for prevention of renal outcomes in patients undergoing coronary and peripheral vascular angiography: main results from the randomized Acetylcysteine for Contrast-induced nephropathy Trial (ACT)". Circulation 124 (11): 1250–9.
14. Szilárd, S; Szentgyörgyi, D; Demeter, I (1988). "Protective effect of Legalon in workers exposed to organic solvents". Acta medica Hungarica 45 (2): 249–56. PMID 3073356.
15. Palasciano, Giuseppe; Portincasa, Piero; Palmieri, Vincenzo; Ciani, Daniela; Vendemiale, Gianluigi; Altomare, Emanuele (1994). "The effect of silymarin on plasma levels of malon-dialdehyde in patients receiving long-term treatment with psychotropic drugs". Current Therapeutic Research 55 (5): 537–45. doi:10.1016/S0011-393X(05)80184-5.
16. Angulo, P; Patel, T; Jorgensen, RA; Therneau, TM; Lindor, KD (2000). "Silymarin in the Treatment of Patients with Primary Biliary Cirrhosis with a Suboptimal Response to Ursodeoxycholic Acid". Hepatology 32 (5): 897–900. doi:10.1053/jhep.2000.18663. PMID 11050036.
17. Lieber, Charles S.; Leo, Maria A.; Cao, Qi; Ren, Chaoling; Decarli, Leonore M. (2003). "Silymarin Retards the Progression of Alcohol-Induced Hepatic Fibrosis in Baboons". Journal of Clinical Gastroenterology 37 (4): 336–9. doi:10.1097/00004836-200310000-00013. PMID 14506392.
18. Ladas, Elena J.; Kroll, David J.; Oberlies, Nicholas H.; Cheng, Bin; Ndao, Deborah H.; Rheingold, Susan R.; Kelly, Kara M. (2010). "A randomized, controlled, double-blind, pilot study of milk thistle for the treatment of hepatotoxicity in childhood acute lymphoblastic leukemia (ALL)". Cancer 116 (2): 506–13. doi:10.1002/cncr.24723. PMC 3542639. PMID 20014183.
19. Naruta, E.; Buko, V. (2001). "Hypolipidemic effect of pantothenic acid derivatives in mice with hypothalamic obesity induced by aurothioglucose". Experimental and Toxologic Pathology 53 (5): 393–398. doi:10.1078/0940-2993-00205. PMID 11817109.
20. Harry Fong & Jerry Bauman 2002. Alternative Medicines for Cardiovascular Diseases--Hawthorn, Journal of Cardiovascular Nursing 16(4):1-8.
21. Sweet JMRBV (2002). Hawthorn: Pharmacology and therapeutic uses. American Journal of Health-System Pharmacy 59: 417-422.
22. Miodownik C, Lerner V, Vishne T, et al. High-dose vitamin B6 decreases homocysteine serum levels in patients with schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorders: a preliminary study. Clin Neuropharmacol 2007 Jan-Feb;30(1):13-7.
23. Schnyder G, Roffi M, Flammer Y, et al. Effect of homocysteine-lowering therapy with folic acid, vitamin B12, and vitamin B6 on clinical outcome after percutaneous coronary intervention: the Swiss Heart study: a randomized controlled trial. JAMA 8-28-2002;288(8):973-979.
24. Markowitz JS, Donovan JL, Devane CL, et al. (December 2003). "Multiple doses of saw palmetto (Serenoa repens) did not alter cytochrome P450 2D6 and 3A4 activity in normal volunteers". Clin. Pharmacol. Ther. 74 (6): 536–42. doi:10.1016/j.clpt.2003.08.010. PMID 14663456.
25. Wilt T, Ishani A, Mac Donald R (2002). "Serenoa repens for benign prostatic hyperplasia". In Tacklind, James. Cochrane Database Syst Rev (3): CD001423. doi:10.1002/14651858.CD001423. PMID 12137626.
26. Bent S, Kane C, Shinohara K, et al. (February 2006). "Saw palmetto for benign prostatic hyperplasia". N. Engl. J. Med. 354 (6): 557–66. doi:10.1056/NEJMoa053085. PMID 16467543.
27. Dedhia RC, McVary KT (June 2008). "Phytotherapy for lower urinary tract symptoms secondary to benign prostatic hyperplasia". J. Urol. 179 (6): 2119–25.
28. "Saw Palmetto". MedlinePlus (National Library of Medicine). 2008-02-01.
29. Sultana, S., Ahmed, S., Jahangir, T., & Sharma, S. (2005). Inhibitory effect of celery seeds extract on chemically induced hepatocarcinogenesis: modulation of cell proliferation, metabolism and altered hepatic foci development. Cancer letters, 221(1), 11-20.
30. Le QT, Elliott WJ. Hypotensive and hypocholesterolemic effects of celery oil may be due to BuPh. Clin Res. 1991;39:173A.
31. Bagchi, Debasis; Sen, Chandan K; Ray, Sidhartha D; Das, Dipak K; Bagchi, Manashi; Preuss, Harry G; Vinson, Joe A (2003). "Molecular mechanisms of cardioprotection by a novel grape seed proanthocyanidin extract". Mutation Research/Fundamental and Molecular Mechanisms of Mutagenesis. 523-524: 87–97. doi:10.1016/S0027-5107(02)00324-X. PMID 12628506
32. Vitseva, Olga; Varghese, Sonia; Chakrabarti, Subrata; Folts, John D; Freedman, Jane E (2005). "Grape Seed and Skin Extracts Inhibit Platelet Function and Release of Reactive Oxygen Intermediates". Journal of Cardiovascular Pharmacology 46 (4): 445–51.
33. Pan, Xinjuan; Dai, Yujie; Li, Xing; Niu, Nannan; Li, Wenjie; Liu, Fangli; Zhao, Yang; Yu, Zengli (2011). "Inhibition of arsenic induced-rat liver injury by grape seed exact through suppression of NADPH oxidase and TGF-β/Smad activation". Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology 254 (3): 323–31. doi:10.1016/j.taap.2011.04.022. PMID 21605584.
34. Liu, S.; Tan, M. Y.; Zhao, S. P.; Rong, H. (2012). "Effects of policosanol on serum lipids and heme oxygenase-1 in patients with hyperlipidemia". Zhonghua xin xue guan bing za zhi 40 (10): 840–843. PMID 23302671. edit
35. Zanardi, M.; Quirico, E.; Benvenuti, C.; Pezzana, A. (2012). "Use of a lipid-lowering food supplement in patients on hormone therapy following breast cancer". Minerva ginecologica 64 (5): 431–435. PMID 23018482.
36. Blando, F., Gerardi, C., & Nicoletti, I. (2004). Sour Cherry (Prunus cerasus L) Anthocyanins as Ingredients for Functional Foods. Journal of Biomedicine and Biotechnology, 2004(5), 253-258. Hindawi Publishing Corporation.
37. Higashiyama, K.; Takeuchi, Y.; Yamauchi, T.; Imai, S.; Kamei, J.; Yajima, Y.; Narita, M.; Suzuki, T. (May 2005). "Implication of the Descending Dynorphinergic Neuron Projecting to the Spinal Cord in the (+)-Matrine- and (+)-Allomatrine-Induced Antinociceptive Effects" (pdf). Biological and Pharmaceutical Bulletin 28 (5): 845–848. doi:10.1248/bpb.28.845. PMID 15863891.
38. Ma, L.; Wen, S.; Zhan, Y.; He, Y.; Liu, X.; Jiang, J. (2008). "Anticancer Effects of the Chinese Medicine Matrine on Murine Hepatocellular Carcinoma Cells". Planta Medica 74 (3): 245–251. doi:10.1055/s-2008-1034304. PMID 18283616.
39. Wenzel, E., & Somoza, V. (2005). Metabolism and bioavailability of trans-resveratrol. Molecular nutrition & food research, 49(5), 472-481.
40. Xue, L. X. (1993). Experimental study on extract of Dunaliella salina in preventing NSAR-induced cancer of proventriculus in mice. Zhonghua yu fang yi xue za zhi [Chinese journal of preventive medicine], 27(6), 350-353.
41. Herrero, M., Ibáñez, E., Cifuentes, A., Reglero, G., & Santoyo, S. (2006). Dunaliella salina microalga pressurized liquid extracts as potential antimicrobials. Journal of food protection, 69(10), 2471-2477.
 
mw1 said:
A little article written by Synapsin: Competitive Edge Lab's (CEL) Cycle Assist Cycle Assist is designed to be an all-in-one support solution for basic on cycle and post cycle therapy needs. Cycle Assist contains a combination of specifically dosed ingredients designed to help provide liver, blood pressure, cholesterol, prostate, and acne support (1-35). Also, unlike many other products in its class, every herb in Cycle Assist is a standardized extract and the standardization amount is clearly identified on the label. This is extremely important because it is the amount of active ingredient that an herb is standardized for that determines the level of benefits received from it. Example: A product can be dosed very high in mg of herb powder, but standardized poorly and therefore offer very little if anything in terms of effectiveness. This article will serve as a comprehensive guide to the most important ingredients in Cycle Assist. N-Acetyl-l-Cysteine (NAC) is used in the management of drug overdose (such as acetaminophen), and acts as a mucolytic agent. The inclusion of NAC in Cycle Assist is due to its protective effects on the liver and kidney. It is possibly one of the most effective over the counter products available on the market for protecting your liver from damage (1-13). Milk Thistle is perhaps one of the most famous herbs in the world, widely known for its liver protective effects. Research on milk thistle has suggested that it is both capable of preventing liver damage AND repairing liver damage (14-18). Pantothenic Acid has been shown to lower free cholesterol, triglyceride counts, and total cholesterol in the liver (19). Hawthorn Berry Extract has been shown to potentially help with chronic heart failure, fatigue, palpitations, and dyspnea (20-21). Vitamin B-6 (Pyridoxine HCl) can protect individuals from cardiovascular disease by lowering homocysteine levels in the blood (22-23). Saw Palmetto Extract is a popular men's health herbal product, most commonly used for benign prostatic hyperplasia. Users often take it while on cycle for prostate health benefits. It has also been suggested to help with male pattern baldness (24-28). Celery Seed Extract has been suggested to lower blood sugar, decrease blood pressure, promote relaxation, and protect the liver from damage (29-30). Grape Seed Extract can potentially improve symptoms of hypertension, lower high levels of blood cholesterol, inflammation, and improve liver function (31-33). Policosanol can potentially improve your cholesterol levels by lowering levels of LDL (bad cholesterol) while simultaneously improving levels of HDL (good cholesterol) (34-35). Antaeus Labs Talos Since the release of CEL's Cycle Assist, many companies have tried to release their own version of Cycle Assist, but they all pale in comparison to Cycle Assist, the best on cycle product on the market. One such product is Antaeus Labs' product "Talos". A comprehensive review of the literature has revealed that this product is nothing more than pixie dust, filled with many ingredients at either meaningless doses, lacking any extract information, or ingredients that have zero applications in humans (with little to no animal research either). The only overlapping ingredients in Talos that overlaps with Cycle Assist is Vitamin B6. Cycle Assist not only states what form of Vitamin B6 we use (this actually matters), but also has a higher dosage of B6. The main ingredients in Talos are the following: Prunus Cerasus (Sour Cherry) Matrine Trans-Resveratrol Dunaliella salina extract (10% 9-Cis-Beta Carotene) Salicin Astaxanthin Prunus Cerasus (Sour Cherry) only has one real study on it. The study has no data on its usage in humans, its only data conducted on cell cultures, and it's only suggested function is that it may act as an antioxidant. It is virtually useless for usage as an on cycle product (36). Matrine has been suggested to act as an analgesic and an anti-cancer agent, but again, that is irrelevant to an individual running a cycle. Its anti-cancer properties (specifically breast cancer) would be more relevant for usage during PCT rather than on cycle, and it has no human data to confirm such a conclusion that is indeed effective for that usage (37-38). Trans-Resveratrol is a very popular buzz product (and it has been the last few year), but nobody is quite sure what it actually does yet. It suffers from huge bio-availability issues (oral resveratrol bio-availability is nearly zero), and the dose in Talos (50 mg), is worthless in humans (39). Dunaliella salina extract (10% 9-Cis-Beta Carotene) is a head scratcher. It has one study on the effects of cancer of proventriculus in mice, and a few studies evaluating its efficacy as a potential antimicrobial. This ingredient has no place in an on cycle product, and truly shows how much of a filler in is (40-41). Salicin is the one ingredient in this product has that any real benefit, but the dosage in this product is far too low for users to feel any benefit. Astaxanthin is similar to Dunaliella salina extract in that it is an antioxidant that neutralizes free radicals in the eye and nervous system. Its inclusion in an on cycle product, however, is meaningless because it is primarily used by individuals to promote ocular health, which is not a real concern for those on cycle. And there you have it, a comprehensive review of the best on cycle product on the market (Cycle Assist) versus the latest pretender (Talos). Not only does Cycle Assist include a variety of standardized herbal extracts with clinical trials in humans, but it also includes them at physiologically relevant dosages
Click to expand...

CEL cycle assist ! All the way
 
Sorry but your article neglects to mention the benefits of most of the ingredients in Talos. It basically says "here is everything bad" and ignored all the good.

I have nothing against Cycle Assist. It's a fine product. But I recommended talos, and it IS a complete cycle support.

Black Rice Extract, 25% Anthocyanins (1300mg per recommended daily dose)

It has long been known that androgens cause an adverse shift the ratios of lipoproteins; causing an increase in low-density lipoproteins (LDL) and a reduction in high-density lipoproteins (HDL). [1] This is due to an increase in postheparin plasma hepatic triglyceride lipase (HTGL) activity; HTGL is the enzyme responsible for the catabolism of HDL. [2] High LDL and low HDL levels are associated with atherosclerosis and heart disease. Anthocyanins have been shown to increase HDL and reduce LDL concentrations in humans, [3][4] which may be due to the inhibition of plasma cholesteryl ester transfer protein (CETP), an enzyme which transfers cholesterol from HDL cholesterol to very low density or low density lipoproteins. [4] There's also evidence that the hypolipidemic effects of anthocyanins may be due to increased CYP7A1 expression due to agonism of LXRα. [5]

"Our results suggest that anthocyanin supplementation in dyslipidemic patients has a beneficial effect on the lipoprotein profile, which includes a decrease in LDL-cholesterol and an increase in HDL-cholesterol concentrations." [4]

SAMe (400mg from 800mg S-Adenosyl-L-Methionine Disulfate Tosylate)

Soon after the introduction of oral (17a-alkylated) steroids it became apparent that excessive doses or prolonged use can be deleterious to liver function, [6] and since then there have been several case studies of jaundice and liver failure secondary to oral steroid use – both self-administered [7] and in the clinical setting. [8][9] The hepatotoxic effects of oral androgens are of a primarily cholestatic nature.

S-adenosylmethionine is an endogenous methyl group donor and precursor to glutathione, which may be able to prevent androgen-induced cholestasis and liver injury. SAMe can inhibit bile acid-induced hepatocyte apoptosis, [10][11][12] downregulates expression of the inflammatory cytokine TNF-alpha, [13][14] and can reduce oxidative stress via glutathione replenishment, [15] which may also play a role in ameliorating the effects of cholestasis. [16] SAMe has been studied extensively as a safe and effective treatment for pregnancy-induced cholestasis, [17][18][19] and, in a case study, was even shown to reverse severe androgen-induced cholestasis. [20] Due to its distinct mechanism of action, it has an additive effect when used alongside UDCA/TUDCA. [10][18]

As a direct precursor to glutathione and an inhibitor of TNF-alpha and NF-Kb, the benefits associated with SAMe use are not limited to hepatoprotection. It is also in wide use as a general antioxidant and anti-inflammatory.

Ubiquinone (300mg)

Coenzyme Q10 is an essential component of the production of cellular energy. Supplementation has been shown to have a host of benefits, including lowering blood pressure, without significant side effects. [21] It can also maintain heart health by functioning as an antioxidant. By lowering the susceptibility of LDL to oxidation, it may reduce the atherosclerotic (artery-hardening) effects of LDL ("bad cholesterol"). [22][23]
"Our data support the concept that the CoQ10 level of the LDL subfractions is important in minimizing susceptibility of LDL subfractions to oxidation." [22]

Astilbin (200mg)

Anabolic steroids have been shown to increase blood pressure. [24] Androgens stimulate vascular production of 20-hydroxyeicosatetraenoic acid (20-HETE), which induces endothelial angiotensin-converting-enzyme (ACE), leading to aldosterone secretion, vasoconstriction, and elevations in arterial blood pressure. [25] This is supported by observations of elevated aldosterone levels in steroid-using bodybuilders. [26] Astilbin is a potent, naturally-occurring ACE inhibitor. [27] ACE inhibitors reduce the production of angiotensin II, resulting in lower blood pressure and improved potassium retention and sodium excretion.

Trans-Resveratrol (200mg)

The naturally-occurring grape-derived antioxidant and phytoestrogen trans-resveratrol is believed to be cardioprotective through a number of mechanisms; amongst other things, it inhibits lipid peroxidation, induces vasorelaxation, and limits oxidative damage through the reduction of reactive oxygen species (ROS). [28]

"Resveratrol, a grape polyphenol, has shown considerable promise as a therapeutic agent in the treatment of liver ailments. Several studies have highlighted the hepatoprotective properties of resveratrol. Resveratrol has been shown to prevent hepatic damage because of free radicals and inflammatory cytokines, induce anti-oxidant enzymes and elevate glutathione content." [29]

Salicylate (175mg)

Administration of anabolic steroids or prohormones enhances platelet aggregation. [30] Salicylic acid decreases platelet aggregation by inhibiting the formation of thromboxane A2, [31] which may reduce the risk of blood clots, heart attack and stroke. [32]

B9, B6, and B12 (2mg, 60mg, 250mcg respectively)

Androgens like testosterone have been shown to increase levels of homocysteine, [33] and the self-administration of anabolic steroids can increase homocysteine levels dramatically. [34] Homocysteine damages the structure of the arteries, and hyperhomocysteinemia (high homocysteine levels) is a strong risk-factor for cardiovascular disease, blood clots, and strokes. [35] Folic acid (B9), pyridoxine (B6), and cobalamin (B12) reduce the levels of homocysteine. [36]

Astaxanthin (16mg)

Astaxanthin promotes healthy lipid metabolism as an antioxidant, [37] as a PPAR-α agonist, [38] and also by promoting expression of ATP-binding cassette transporters A1 and G1 (ABCA1/G1). [39] ABCA1 and ABCG1 mediate the efflux of cholesterol; helping to remove lipids from cells as the initial step in reverse cholesterol transport (RCT). RCT is the process by which cholesterol is shuttled back to the liver by HDL. [40]
"RCT is a pathway that transports cholesterol from extrahepatic cells and tissues to the liver and intestine for excretion. By reducing accumulation of cholesterol in the wall of arteries, RCT may prevent development of atherosclerosis. Cholesterol efflux, part of the RCT process, is a major process by which macrophages within the vessel wall secrete cholesterol outside cells." [40]
 
BigBlackGuy said:
Sorry but your article neglects to mention the benefits of most of the ingredients in Talos. It basically says "here is everything bad" and ignored all the good. I have nothing against Cycle Assist. It's a fine product. But I recommended talos, and it IS a complete cycle support. Black Rice Extract, 25% Anthocyanins (1300mg per recommended daily dose) It has long been known that androgens cause an adverse shift the ratios of lipoproteins; causing an increase in low-density lipoproteins (LDL) and a reduction in high-density lipoproteins (HDL). [1] This is due to an increase in postheparin plasma hepatic triglyceride lipase (HTGL) activity; HTGL is the enzyme responsible for the catabolism of HDL. [2] High LDL and low HDL levels are associated with atherosclerosis and heart disease. Anthocyanins have been shown to increase HDL and reduce LDL concentrations in humans, [3][4] which may be due to the inhibition of plasma cholesteryl ester transfer protein (CETP), an enzyme which transfers cholesterol from HDL cholesterol to very low density or low density lipoproteins. [4] There's also evidence that the hypolipidemic effects of anthocyanins may be due to increased CYP7A1 expression due to agonism of LXR?. [5] "Our results suggest that anthocyanin supplementation in dyslipidemic patients has a beneficial effect on the lipoprotein profile, which includes a decrease in LDL-cholesterol and an increase in HDL-cholesterol concentrations." [4] SAMe (400mg from 800mg S-Adenosyl-L-Methionine Disulfate Tosylate) Soon after the introduction of oral (17a-alkylated) steroids it became apparent that excessive doses or prolonged use can be deleterious to liver function, [6] and since then there have been several case studies of jaundice and liver failure secondary to oral steroid use - both self-administered [7] and in the clinical setting. [8][9] The hepatotoxic effects of oral androgens are of a primarily cholestatic nature. S-adenosylmethionine is an endogenous methyl group donor and precursor to glutathione, which may be able to prevent androgen-induced cholestasis and liver injury. SAMe can inhibit bile acid-induced hepatocyte apoptosis, [10][11][12] downregulates expression of the inflammatory cytokine TNF-alpha, [13][14] and can reduce oxidative stress via glutathione replenishment, [15] which may also play a role in ameliorating the effects of cholestasis. [16] SAMe has been studied extensively as a safe and effective treatment for pregnancy-induced cholestasis, [17][18][19] and, in a case study, was even shown to reverse severe androgen-induced cholestasis. [20] Due to its distinct mechanism of action, it has an additive effect when used alongside UDCA/TUDCA. [10][18] As a direct precursor to glutathione and an inhibitor of TNF-alpha and NF-Kb, the benefits associated with SAMe use are not limited to hepatoprotection. It is also in wide use as a general antioxidant and anti-inflammatory. Ubiquinone (300mg) Coenzyme Q10 is an essential component of the production of cellular energy. Supplementation has been shown to have a host of benefits, including lowering blood pressure, without significant side effects. [21] It can also maintain heart health by functioning as an antioxidant. By lowering the susceptibility of LDL to oxidation, it may reduce the atherosclerotic (artery-hardening) effects of LDL ("bad cholesterol"). [22][23] "Our data support the concept that the CoQ10 level of the LDL subfractions is important in minimizing susceptibility of LDL subfractions to oxidation." [22] Astilbin (200mg) Anabolic steroids have been shown to increase blood pressure. [24] Androgens stimulate vascular production of 20-hydroxyeicosatetraenoic acid (20-HETE), which induces endothelial angiotensin-converting-enzyme (ACE), leading to aldosterone secretion, vasoconstriction, and elevations in arterial blood pressure. [25] This is supported by observations of elevated aldosterone levels in steroid-using bodybuilders. [26] Astilbin is a potent, naturally-occurring ACE inhibitor. [27] ACE inhibitors reduce the production of angiotensin II, resulting in lower blood pressure and improved potassium retention and sodium excretion. Trans-Resveratrol (200mg) The naturally-occurring grape-derived antioxidant and phytoestrogen trans-resveratrol is believed to be cardioprotective through a number of mechanisms; amongst other things, it inhibits lipid peroxidation, induces vasorelaxation, and limits oxidative damage through the reduction of reactive oxygen species (ROS). [28] "Resveratrol, a grape polyphenol, has shown considerable promise as a therapeutic agent in the treatment of liver ailments. Several studies have highlighted the hepatoprotective properties of resveratrol. Resveratrol has been shown to prevent hepatic damage because of free radicals and inflammatory cytokines, induce anti-oxidant enzymes and elevate glutathione content." [29] Salicylate (175mg) Administration of anabolic steroids or prohormones enhances platelet aggregation. [30] Salicylic acid decreases platelet aggregation by inhibiting the formation of thromboxane A2, [31] which may reduce the risk of blood clots, heart attack and stroke. [32] B9, B6, and B12 (2mg, 60mg, 250mcg respectively) Androgens like testosterone have been shown to increase levels of homocysteine, [33] and the self-administration of anabolic steroids can increase homocysteine levels dramatically. [34] Homocysteine damages the structure of the arteries, and hyperhomocysteinemia (high homocysteine levels) is a strong risk-factor for cardiovascular disease, blood clots, and strokes. [35] Folic acid (B9), pyridoxine (B6), and cobalamin (B12) reduce the levels of homocysteine. [36] Astaxanthin (16mg) Astaxanthin promotes healthy lipid metabolism as an antioxidant, [37] as a PPAR-? agonist, [38] and also by promoting expression of ATP-binding cassette transporters A1 and G1 (ABCA1/G1). [39] ABCA1 and ABCG1 mediate the efflux of cholesterol; helping to remove lipids from cells as the initial step in reverse cholesterol transport (RCT). RCT is the process by which cholesterol is shuttled back to the liver by HDL. [40] "RCT is a pathway that transports cholesterol from extrahepatic cells and tissues to the liver and intestine for excretion. By reducing accumulation of cholesterol in the wall of arteries, RCT may prevent development of atherosclerosis. Cholesterol efflux, part of the RCT process, is a major process by which macrophages within the vessel wall secrete cholesterol outside cells." [40]
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what if I did both then ? Like they say " there's nothing more expensive than the cost of your life " but all I know is that I took a crap load of supports last time on my spawn and my BP ranged from 150-160max to 85-91max the weirdest one that I saw was 160-82 or 85
 
Yodambomb said:
what if I did both then ? Like they say " there's nothing more expensive than the cost of your life " but all I know is that I took a crap load of supports last time on my spawn and my BP ranged from 150-160max to 85-91max the weirdest one that I saw was 160-82 or 85
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Either one will work. If you're more comfortable with Cycle Assist, by all means go for it! I used to rep for Antaeus Labs and just happen to know the products intimately so I thought I'd suggest it.

Whatever your prefer brother!
 
BigBlackGuy said:
Either one will work. If you're more comfortable with Cycle Assist, by all means go for it! I used to rep for Antaeus Labs and just happen to know the products intimately so I thought I'd suggest it. Whatever your prefer brother!
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So taking both at once wouldn't make any difference ?
 
mw1 said:
A little article written by Synapsin:

Competitive Edge Lab’s (CEL) Cycle Assist
Cycle Assist is designed to be an all-in-one support solution for basic on cycle and post cycle therapy needs. Cycle Assist contains a combination of specifically dosed ingredients designed to help provide liver, blood pressure, cholesterol, prostate, and acne support (1-35).

Also, unlike many other products in its class, every herb in Cycle Assist is a standardized extract and the standardization amount is clearly identified on the label. This is extremely important because it is the amount of active ingredient that an herb is standardized for that determines the level of benefits received from it. Example: A product can be dosed very high in mg of herb powder, but standardized poorly and therefore offer very little if anything in terms of effectiveness.
This article will serve as a comprehensive guide to the most important ingredients in Cycle Assist.
N-Acetyl-l-Cysteine (NAC) is used in the management of drug overdose (such as acetaminophen), and acts as a mucolytic agent. The inclusion of NAC in Cycle Assist is due to its protective effects on the liver and kidney. It is possibly one of the most effective over the counter products available on the market for protecting your liver from damage (1-13).
Milk Thistle is perhaps one of the most famous herbs in the world, widely known for its liver protective effects. Research on milk thistle has suggested that it is both capable of preventing liver damage AND repairing liver damage (14-18).
Pantothenic Acid has been shown to lower free cholesterol, triglyceride counts, and total cholesterol in the liver (19).
Hawthorn Berry Extract has been shown to potentially help with chronic heart failure, fatigue, palpitations, and dyspnea (20-21).
Vitamin B-6 (Pyridoxine HCl) can protect individuals from cardiovascular disease by lowering homocysteine levels in the blood (22-23).
Saw Palmetto Extract is a popular men’s health herbal product, most commonly used for benign prostatic hyperplasia. Users often take it while on cycle for prostate health benefits. It has also been suggested to help with male pattern baldness (24-28).
Celery Seed Extract has been suggested to lower blood sugar, decrease blood pressure, promote relaxation, and protect the liver from damage (29-30).
Grape Seed Extract can potentially improve symptoms of hypertension, lower high levels of blood cholesterol, inflammation, and improve liver function (31-33).
Policosanol can potentially improve your cholesterol levels by lowering levels of LDL (bad cholesterol) while simultaneously improving levels of HDL (good cholesterol) (34-35).
Antaeus Labs Talos
Since the release of CEL’s Cycle Assist, many companies have tried to release their own version of Cycle Assist, but they all pale in comparison to Cycle Assist, the best on cycle product on the market. One such product is Antaeus Labs’ product “Talos”. A comprehensive review of the literature has revealed that this product is nothing more than pixie dust, filled with many ingredients at either meaningless doses, lacking any extract information, or ingredients that have zero applications in humans (with little to no animal research either).
The only overlapping ingredients in Talos that overlaps with Cycle Assist is Vitamin B6. Cycle Assist not only states what form of Vitamin B6 we use (this actually matters), but also has a higher dosage of B6.
The main ingredients in Talos are the following:
Prunus Cerasus (Sour Cherry)
Matrine
Trans-Resveratrol
Dunaliella salina extract (10% 9-Cis-Beta Carotene)
Salicin
Astaxanthin
Prunus Cerasus (Sour Cherry) only has one real study on it. The study has no data on its usage in humans, its only data conducted on cell cultures, and it’s only suggested function is that it may act as an antioxidant. It is virtually useless for usage as an on cycle product (36).
Matrine has been suggested to act as an analgesic and an anti-cancer agent, but again, that is irrelevant to an individual running a cycle. Its anti-cancer properties (specifically breast cancer) would be more relevant for usage during PCT rather than on cycle, and it has no human data to confirm such a conclusion that is indeed effective for that usage (37-38).
Trans-Resveratrol is a very popular buzz product (and it has been the last few year), but nobody is quite sure what it actually does yet. It suffers from huge bio-availability issues (oral resveratrol bio-availability is nearly zero), and the dose in Talos (50 mg), is worthless in humans (39).
Dunaliella salina extract (10% 9-Cis-Beta Carotene) is a head scratcher. It has one study on the effects of cancer of proventriculus in mice, and a few studies evaluating its efficacy as a potential antimicrobial. This ingredient has no place in an on cycle product, and truly shows how much of a filler in is (40-41).
Salicin is the one ingredient in this product has that any real benefit, but the dosage in this product is far too low for users to feel any benefit.
Astaxanthin is similar to Dunaliella salina extract in that it is an antioxidant that neutralizes free radicals in the eye and nervous system. Its inclusion in an on cycle product, however, is meaningless because it is primarily used by individuals to promote ocular health, which is not a real concern for those on cycle.

And there you have it, a comprehensive review of the best on cycle product on the market (Cycle Assist) versus the latest pretender (Talos). Not only does Cycle Assist include a variety of standardized herbal extracts with clinical trials in humans, but it also includes them at physiologically relevant dosages
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Stay classy SNS.
 
BigBlackGuy said:
I don't know, there may be contraindications in the products. One of the other should suffice, though.
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For sure and I don't think that my BP will be that bad on a single compound , usually tended to happen with the double or triple compounds . But at the same time I wouldn't doubt that it won't be high even with either support because I've taken supports each time ..
 
Mystere3 said:
I would want bp to be lower than that. That being said most people don't know how to take BP. You're supposed to take it sitting/lying down after 10-15 min of sitting/lying down.
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Yeah I've only done mine at the pharmacy stations at the grocery stores . I don't go to my doctors and take it . That's what I'm sayin tho , I've seen mine from 155/90to like 160/82 .
 
Mystere3 said:
I would want bp to be lower than that. That being said most people don't know how to take BP. You're supposed to take it sitting/lying down after 10-15 min of sitting/lying down.
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So I talked to some dude over the phone today who had some knowledge and he said that I should always take an anti estrogen while being on any prohormone or anything more than one compound at least . Could that be what may have contributed to the high BP
 
Mystere3 said:
Doubt it'd make any difference.
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The person that I talked too said that he's put plenty of people on pros and I'm the 1st that he's heard of getting high BP ., but I don't think that I should stress because I'm not doing a triple compound like last time . The spawn had MSten , Epi and Tren . DMZ at 32mg a day with CEL support and plenty of water and extra vitamins I should be good .
 
i dont think you can really avoid these things. you should accept blood pressure etc will rise a bit on a steroid cycle. unless you have some other medical condition will would put you at higher danger I think I'd just keep on going and not worry too much. it will return to normal after cycle.
 
seanghetto said:
i dont think you can really avoid these things. you should accept blood pressure etc will rise a bit on a steroid cycle. unless you have some other medical condition will would put you at higher danger I think I'd just keep on going and not worry too much. it will return to normal after cycle.
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For sure and I don't think that 150-160 max over 90 is that rediculisly high and I've done many cycles before and been just fine . Was just wondering if test didn't raise it as much but it probably does .
 
Yodambomb said:
So I talked to some dude over the phone today who had some knowledge and he said that I should always take an anti estrogen while being on any prohormone or anything more than one compound at least . Could that be what may have contributed to the high BP
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Or the fact that ur red blood cell count goes thru the roof. Take EQ for example.
 
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