Anacardic Acid
- Thread starter Whacked
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RecompMan
Well-known member
Driven2lift
Legend
RecompMan
Well-known member
FYI. Not much on the uncoupling. I am still looking
Has some decent data in rats and adipose tissues in terms of lipid accumulation.
And DNP is a little strange how it works
It doesn't increase lipolysis BTW. It increases calcium in I believe the mitochondria and cytoplasm. It increases the BAX/BCL-2 ratio and capsases.
It's blunts b2 agonist lipolysis by 20-40% as well
But would work well with cAMP induced increases in lipolysis with added calcium and yohimbine
Just a little background. Seems like it may be promising but still I need to see more stff on it. I've only came across it recently too when I was looking at other phenolic acids.
RecompMan
Well-known member
No no. Still more reading to be done. Came across it recently. But still have yet to really dive into it to much
If I do an uncoupler it would work different pathways. Make sure to see specific things in the product
Caspase
BAX/BCL-2
Wnt/b-catenin
Cytochrome c
UCP2
Specific increases and decreases. It's pretty ****ing complex. This generating a particular product is difficult as ingredients serve so many functions
Driven2lift
Legend
Subbed regardless, learning is fun
One day all the words you and Cyrus utilize will become English to me lol
Whacked
Well-known member
The thought of an effective stim free fat burner so an uncoupler that works well gives me wood 
LOVED Usnic Acid back in the day (lipokinetix)
LOVED Usnic Acid back in the day (lipokinetix)
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Yes, Lipokinetix was definitely the only fat burner that ever knocked my socks off - and it was relatively simple from an ingredient perspective. I used it with no problems, but now that I am in my 30's and a little older, I don't feel quite as invincible and the liver issues are a concern to me. I've thought of the DNP angle, but lately I'm wondering if Usnic Acid in a transdermal would eliminate the liver issues for the most part and be effective. It has a molecular weight of 344 so it should be able to pass through the skin- although the bioavailability of UA was high enough that delivering it through the skin would be less effective and I wonder if it would require a higher dose.
Whacked
Well-known member
DNP has an unfortunately unwarranted scary rep. It is less toxic than people think.
Disclaimer - It is VERY unsafe for someone who didn't do their homework (it can be lethal) but it is not considered unsafe" in proper doses. Heck, It was prescribed by MD's in the 1920's for weight loss in low doses; sometimes taken a year at a time.
Again, I am not advocating it's use. But a few bad apples/irresponsible users and few bad experiences out of millions have given DNP an unfair bad rap.
Disclaimer - It is VERY unsafe for someone who didn't do their homework (it can be lethal) but it is not considered unsafe" in proper doses. Heck, It was prescribed by MD's in the 1920's for weight loss in low doses; sometimes taken a year at a time.
Again, I am not advocating it's use. But a few bad apples/irresponsible users and few bad experiences out of millions have given DNP an unfair bad rap.
RecompMan
Well-known member
I want to see the way usnic acid caused liver problems.
What specific cytokines or pathways were increased
Apparently the addition of vitamin e reduced the problems associated.
But from an insurance perspective you won't see a company using it. Probably ever again.
DNP is yellow and stains every thing. I don't know if that would happen with usnic. Unsure of its color.
RecompMan
Well-known member
Problem is people stop feeling the rise in temperature and increase the dose
Plus. The increase in body temp is increased by carbohydrate consumption. Lower carb dieters won't get a huge increase in heat until their refeeds
DNP has a decent amount of scientific research behind it but the way it's presented to the public for our intended uses are proclaimed extremely harmful.
Whacked
Well-known member
Whacked
Well-known member
People were buying powder and capping themselves back in the day (circa 10 years ago when it was popular)
I don't recall any issues/complaints about the well-known pain in the butt yellow-staining attribute of DNP
I don't recall any issues/complaints about the well-known pain in the butt yellow-staining attribute of DNP
Whacked
Well-known member
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Guys, great info. I'm not afraid of DNP and would love to give it a try actually. I think it may actually be easier to find than Usnic Acid in some ways nowadays. You two really nailed it.
My take on it is that DNP is pretty safe, but if you **** up you can die. If I were to use it, I'd rather go on a slightly longer cycle at 200-400 mg/day rather than what I see some people claiming to do. 400 mg. seems like the upper limit before safety and effectiveness seem to get out of whack. What people don't realize is that even if you take 200 mg, the increase in metabolism will be such that over time, if your diet is in check, you will have dramatic results. Couple that with the fact that it will build up in your system with a longer cycle and you still have a winner. I think some people just want to say, "Hey look at me, I dropped 15 pounds in 10 days!" and they start taking mega doses too. Or, like you said, "I'm not feeling side effects and I should be, I better take another 200 mg." and then 2-3 days later there is so much in their system that it is too late when they figure out they f'd up.
Usnic Acid appears safe, but you just don't know when it is causing problems unless you are getting regular blood tests for liver function - which no one does. You are just shooting in the dark with usnic acid in most cases in other words. With DNP, you know what the sides are and can monitor them without blood tests.
My take on it is that DNP is pretty safe, but if you **** up you can die. If I were to use it, I'd rather go on a slightly longer cycle at 200-400 mg/day rather than what I see some people claiming to do. 400 mg. seems like the upper limit before safety and effectiveness seem to get out of whack. What people don't realize is that even if you take 200 mg, the increase in metabolism will be such that over time, if your diet is in check, you will have dramatic results. Couple that with the fact that it will build up in your system with a longer cycle and you still have a winner. I think some people just want to say, "Hey look at me, I dropped 15 pounds in 10 days!" and they start taking mega doses too. Or, like you said, "I'm not feeling side effects and I should be, I better take another 200 mg." and then 2-3 days later there is so much in their system that it is too late when they figure out they f'd up.
Usnic Acid appears safe, but you just don't know when it is causing problems unless you are getting regular blood tests for liver function - which no one does. You are just shooting in the dark with usnic acid in most cases in other words. With DNP, you know what the sides are and can monitor them without blood tests.
RecompMan
Well-known member
Have to go through that. But mechanisms to be explored. They talk about increases in liver enzymes but not things like collagen formation in the liver ect.
RecompMan
Well-known member
I wouldn't say DNP is safe.
It's manageable with proper precautions and one should be very cautious in its use and understand it.
It is your own choice, but be informed.
I've seen people dose up to 750mg/day for up to 2 weeks
My suggestion if you were to use it on a cut:
Forskolin, calcium, antioxidents,
Macros as such:
50/30/20 protein carbs fat (in percentages)
It's manageable with proper precautions and one should be very cautious in its use and understand it.
It is your own choice, but be informed.
I've seen people dose up to 750mg/day for up to 2 weeks
My suggestion if you were to use it on a cut:
Forskolin, calcium, antioxidents,
Macros as such:
50/30/20 protein carbs fat (in percentages)
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Well, yeah, safe is a moving target anyway. Nothing is safe, and DNP is definitely dangerous - if you don't manage it, you die.
I've known about DNP since I was in my early 20's and using lipokinetix - and have researched it for 10 years...just never tried to source it. I've always been open to it, but I always find a reason not to do it...so far....
I've seen people who have claimed to go up to a full gram. I think the 750-1000 mg doses are just playing with fire. I can maybe understand 600 mg. - and I also realize that as you get into things and build confidence your mentality changes, but I am pretty disciplined around that type of thing and would limit it to 400 mg and probably try to draw it out to 3 weeks and hope for fewer sides. But I know how it works - "400 was great! It isn't working quite as well now. I can bump it to 600...I shouldn't...but....what the heck."
I've known about DNP since I was in my early 20's and using lipokinetix - and have researched it for 10 years...just never tried to source it. I've always been open to it, but I always find a reason not to do it...so far....
I've seen people who have claimed to go up to a full gram. I think the 750-1000 mg doses are just playing with fire. I can maybe understand 600 mg. - and I also realize that as you get into things and build confidence your mentality changes, but I am pretty disciplined around that type of thing and would limit it to 400 mg and probably try to draw it out to 3 weeks and hope for fewer sides. But I know how it works - "400 was great! It isn't working quite as well now. I can bump it to 600...I shouldn't...but....what the heck."
RecompMan
Well-known member
Higher doses shorter duration
Supposed anabolic rebound after cessation
10 days on 2 weeks off in weight gain protocols
Whacked
Well-known member
I'd run longer duration with smaller doses
100mg/day for a few weeks
More tolerable/less sides and comparable results
Check pms
100mg/day for a few weeks
More tolerable/less sides and comparable results
Check pms
ericool007
Active member
LOL i was thinking the same thing i cant think of a fat burner less safe than DNP and usnic acid. I always wondered about transdermal usnic acid, its actually in a product called ab solutions plus, i tried it a long time ago wasnt very effective but i believe the UA content in it was extremely minimal.
mr.cooper69
Legend
We looked at this ages ago for the new Shift. The primary issue is that it can't be put in a mainstream supplement because people with nut allergies may go into anaphylactic shock if they take this. Yeah, you can put warnings on the label, but plenty of people will miss a nut allergy warning on a fat burner
aaronuconn
Well-known member
Very good point. Some would certainly not be looking for that warning.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
I kind of agree with this actually. I think it is definitely dangerous. I think the risks can be managed, but safe is kind of an "unsafe" concept actually. Many people consider Aspirin to be safe. Many people consider pot and alcohol to be safe. T-Bone is right - people will convince themselves anything is safe, and the reality is, anything can be mishandled and abused. The obvious problem with DNP is death - it is a major side effect and the reason I would rather stay below 400 mg/day if I ever did use it. But, on your side of it - I've always considered and never gone through.
I have used Sodium Usniate in Lipokinetix back in the day with no problems at all. The issues with Usniate seem to be that the issues can go unnoticed. If you are managing DNP properly, you will know which sides you have and can make adjustments. With usniate, there is no guide unless you are getting blood tests.
I have seen the ab solutions product, and it does appear that the unsiate is minimal and the other issue is that usniate is probably 70-80% bioavailable when taken orally. I would guess that most carriers would only get about 20-30% into your blood stream transdermally, maybe 50% if you were lucky. I'd be willing to mix some up and try it if I could get my hands on some powder, but DNP may actually be somewhat easier to find (ironic).
HIT4ME
Well-known member
You should just come out with a product called, "Extremely Dangerous" - then the hardcore would buy it by the box and if anyone mainstream got messed up, you could point out that you were totally up front! haha.
Do you think that transdermal application is worth it? Do you think it would reduce effectiveness or require higher doses? Do you think it would even avoid the liver issues?
RecompMan
Well-known member
Do NOT use DNP topically. **** stains everything
Usnic acid in absolution was a nice addition but that product had low actives to begin with and it discontinued. It was best use with eviscerate
HIT4ME
Well-known member
EBF - Yes, I wasn't implying that I would use DNP topically. There is no need. It is effective and the side effects are not going to be any different orally than topically. And yes, the stain would be horrible....UA has the liver issue, however, which I think a topical would address.