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Pure PF3: Patent Pending Pharma Protein - Loggers Needed

Vengeance187 said:
I think you mean IGF-1. IGF-1 isn't even orally bioavailable. So is this just pure IgG and IGF-1? Or is it bioactive whey; in which case I guessed right(do I get a free product for getting it right?:p). Invalid Link Removed product and Invalid Link Removed product show their levels of IgG. Are yours higher?
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thescience said:
haha. I always want to know how much of everything a product has too, though I understand a business wants to protect proprietary information. I should probably start sending my supps in for analysis. a lot of people don't know that IGg is a form of protein, in addition to being a benefit to the hypothalamus, the absorption of nutrients, and the body's immunity. based on the info that's released combined with the fact that whey isolate has exactly 3% immunoglobins, id say we're looking at something that's closer to 100% IGg instead of the 10% in the new Zealand protein product; on top of that, the approximately 12 g dose is is many, many times that amount and amazingly in a good price range, hence my excitement
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Looks like I was right, and you were wrong.
With the 2.6g dose in PF3 being a blend and betaine hcl usually being dosed around 1g, and what's left being ~75% bioactive, the products I referenced are very similar in bioactive content. In fact, the Invalid Link Removed I mentioned earlier has 1.6g of IgG per serving, not including the other fractions, so it's actually higher per serving than PF3. PF3 is exactly what I thought it would be, which makes it just hype. In fact, for the write-up to say that only the bioactive fractions do anything and the 97% of the rest of the protein does nothing is false advertising. Proteins with 0% bioactive content will still have an anabolic and/or anti-catabolic effect on the body. You don't think the studies on free form amino acids had bioactive fractions added to them before they could do anything do you? The bioactive fractions will not cross the intestinal epithelium. They need to be digested into peptides just like everything else...
 
Vengeance187 said:
Looks like I was right, and you were wrong.
With the 2.6g dose in PF3 being a blend and betaine hcl usually being dosed around 1g, and what's left being ~75% bioactive, the products I referenced are very similar in bioactive content. In fact, the Invalid Link Removed I mentioned earlier has 1.6g of IgG per serving, not including the other fractions, so it's actually higher per serving than PF3. PF3 is exactly what I thought it would be, which makes it just hype. In fact, for the write-up to say that only the bioactive fractions do anything and the 97% of the rest of the protein does nothing is false advertising. Proteins with 0% bioactive content will still have an anabolic and/or anti-catabolic effect on the body. You don't think the studies on free form amino acids had bioactive fractions added to them before they could do anything do you? The bioactive fractions will not cross the intestinal epithelium. They need to be digested into peptides just like everything else...
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betain hcl (not to be confused with other forms of betaine) is usually sold to people who need stomach acid in 500mg doses or less. taking a gram of that would be way too much for a lot of people with a full meal, let alone alittle protein. a much smaller amount would stimulate pepsin though. i don't know how much is in pf3, but im predicting very little, as ive had 500mg of betaine hcl experimentally with food and that was WAY too much.

the 2.6gram serving is one of 50 servings, so while the single dose is what the first round of beta-testers used, someone could very easily double to dosage and have a little less than a four week supply per bottle from what i can see. when i typed "buy pure pf3" into yahoo, i came up with a presale product page that have a VERY different amount a grams listed per tub. im gathering the dosage is correct on our homepage

i agree with you that free form aminos have a great benefit; i am constantly defending them on forums. i also advocate and take regular protein powder, as there are a lot of people that tell me protein is useless. i love protein and it made me grow.

the thing with immunopro is that it doesn't state a bioactive percentage. based on the IGg content they listed, im guessing immunopro is sporting a 10-20 bioactive percentage. im also waiting so see where the intro sale coming on nutraplanet is going to put all of this.

im not challenging what you are saying about about bioactive fractions not crossing the epithelium completely in tact; you've made that point very effectively. theres more than that going on here though; IGg, for example, can eliminate 95% of cytokines from the gi track, reducing enormous amounts of inflammation that would tax and restrict every body system there is, including the body's ability to heal/recover.
 
thescience said:
betain hcl (not to be confused with other forms of betaine) is usually sold to people who need stomach acid in 500mg doses or less. taking a gram of that would be way too much for a lot of people with a full meal, let alone alittle protein. a much smaller amount would stimulate pepsin though. i don't know how much is in pf3, but im predicting very little, as ive had 500mg of betaine hcl experimentally with food and that was WAY too much.

the 2.6gram serving is one of 50 servings, so while the single dose is what the first round of beta-testers used, someone could very easily double to dosage and have a little less than a four week supply per bottle from what i can see. when i typed "buy pure pf3" into yahoo, i came up with a presale product page that have a VERY different amount a grams listed per tub. im gathering the dosage is correct on our homepage

i agree with you that free form aminos have a great benefit; i am constantly defending them on forums. i also advocate and take regular protein powder, as there are a lot of people that tell me protein is useless. i love protein and it made me grow.

the thing with immunopro is that it doesn't state a bioactive percentage. based on the IGg content they listed, im guessing immunopro is sporting a 10-20 bioactive percentage. im also waiting so see where the intro sale coming on nutraplanet is going to put all of this.

im not challenging what you are saying about about bioactive fractions not crossing the epithelium completely in tact; you've made that point very effectively. theres more than that going on here though; IGg, for example, can eliminate 95% of cytokines from the gi track, reducing enormous amounts of inflammation that would tax and restrict every body system there is, including the body's ability to heal/recover.
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I'm guessing the dose of Betaine HCl to be only 100mg. As the label lists 2.5g of Protein, and a prop blend of 2.6g. Just a guess.
 
Misfit28 said:
I'm guessing the dose of Betaine HCl to be only 100mg. As the label lists 2.5g of Protein, and a prop blend of 2.6g. Just a guess.
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I think betaine can come up as part of the protein count depending on how one measures for protein? Not sure.

Also, let's say it's 2.5 grams of protein, so how much of that is the actual peptides? Bio-Gro's label is a little clearer as they actual break down the content of the powder which consists of what appears to be only peptides (though the ratios are not disclosed) so I'm guessing that 1.5 gram scoop of Bio-Gro is around 1.5 grams worth of actual peptides.
 
Misfit28 said:
Yes, it is a prop blend. However, IMO, it is a pretty transparent prop blend. Not too difficult to determine a two ingredient blend.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here.
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You are wrong.

As mentioned, betaine can show up as protein when doing nitrogen tests so it could be any amount of either ingredient.
 
Take PF3 for its biological value, not grams of protein per serving
 
Misfit28 said:
Yes, it is a prop blend. However, IMO, it is a pretty transparent prop blend. Not too difficult to determine a two ingredient blend.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here.
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Not really a simple 2 ingredient blend. The selling point are the peptides but we really don't know what percentage of the 2.6 grams prop blends consists of the peptides. Let's say that there is 2.5 grams of protein per serving, so how much of that protein is going to be the peptides (what you are essentially paying for). If you look at the Bio-Gro label, they list out the contents of the 1.5 gram serving and it consists entirely (it would appear that way going by the label) of just peptides (they are listed out, they just don't tell you the ratios these peptides are in per 1.5 grams).

So I'm not being negative of PF3 here, stuff could be just as effective as Bio-Gro for all I know (I will know soon enough I suppose, when I get my hands on some PF3), but with Bio-Gro I know what's in the tub, PF3 all I really know is that there's 2.5 grams of serum protein isolate but serum protein isolate doesn't really tell me the amount of bio active peptides per serving.
 
The Betaine HCL will help with protein breakdown and digestion. It's a small amount in the blend and is not intended to fluff the protein amount.

It's the biological value of the PF3 remember. Not so much grams of protein overall.
 
Piston Honda said:
The Betaine HCL will help with protein breakdown and digestion. It's a small amount in the blend and is not intended to fluff the protein amount.

It's the biological value of the PF3 remember. Not so much grams of protein overall.
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I didn't expect it to be much, or for that purpose.

Merely clarifying that it isn't completely transparent like the poster mentioned.
 
Any product that doesn't give you the ingredient is hiding something for a reason. I think I read its plasma protein and if that is the case how does it compare to protein factory's super plasma protein which is what I currently use in one of my products.?
 
the betaine hcl people are referring to is what can be viewed on the product page for pf3 at the mothersite. betaine hcl is a hydrochloric acid supplement, not to be confused with other aminos bound to small amounts of hcl; I couldn't imagine there being more than 100mg in this ; I say that because higher doses of betaine hcl content (1g) that has been speculated could cause very noticeable stomach discomfort if taken on a near empty stomach, and there would be absolutely no reason to add a a large amount of hcl to break down such a small amount of protein.

I cant make any comparisons to the pf product, since ive yet to see the COA of either. I did notice the pf doesn't sell that product anymore
 
thescience said:
the betaine hcl people are referring to is what can be viewed on the product page for pf3 at the mothersite. betaine hcl is a hydrochloric acid supplement, not to be confused with other aminos bound to small amounts of hcl; I couldn't imagine there being more than 100mg in this ; I say that because higher doses of betaine hcl content (1g) that has been speculated could cause very noticeable stomach discomfort if taken on a near empty stomach, and there would be absolutely no reason to add a a large amount of hcl to break down such a small amount of protein.

I cant make any comparisons to the pf product, since ive yet to see the COA of either. I did notice the pf doesn't sell that product anymore
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how will this affect someone with frequent hearburn? I don't need to make any more stomach acid. I take famotidine so I can make less.
 
jbryand101b said:
how will this affect someone with frequent hearburn? I don't need to make any more stomach acid. I take famotidine so I can make less.
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It's lactose free.. I believe and also easily digested. I've read on that HIV and Cancer patients could benefit from it because of the ease of consumption.. Which could actually aid ones immunity system. This is what I took from an article on serum protein isolate.
 
Budman7811 said:
It's lactose free.. I believe and also easily digested. I've read on that HIV and Cancer patients could benefit from it because of the ease of consumption.. Which could actually aid ones immunity system. This is what I took from an article on serum protein isolate.
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He's talking about the betaine hcl.
 
jimbuick said:
I didn't expect it to be much, or for that purpose.

Merely clarifying that it isn't completely transparent like the poster mentioned.
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If you want to quote me accurately then do so. Nowhere did I say that it was completely transparent.

The supplement industry thrives on innovation. If every company listed every single thing in their formulae, others would simply copy it.

I am all for non-prop blends, but let's use some common sense here.
 
Body Octane, PR-XT, NXT, Orotine, Vaporize, Scorch: no prop blends.

PF3: 2 ingredients, minimal Betaine HCL.

Give us some credit! Lol
 
jimbuick said:
You are wrong.

As mentioned, betaine can show up as protein when doing nitrogen tests so it could be any amount of either ingredient.
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So, I know that glycine can skew a nitrogen test. Does betaine skew the test because it is a compound (trimethylglycine) that contains glycine? I'm really curious.
 
jbryand101b said:
how will this affect someone with frequent hearburn? I don't need to make any more stomach acid. I take famotidine so I can make less.
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if youre on drugs specifically to reduce hcl, then you should always have precaution taking anything with hcl. ive read a lot of interesting research from a Harvard graduate named dr jonathin wright on the topic of heartburn. interestingly, he says in most cases, heartburn comes from have too little hcl and that it often goes away when people taken enough hcl supplements with their meal. theres something called a heidelburg capsule test that very accurately measures your hcl output, though doctors rarely bother to test before concluding theres too much hcl; personally, I would have that that test done before taking a drug that would interefere with something as essential as hcl production; hcl is a MAJOR destroyer of pathogens, it is anti-inflammatory, its needed to break down protein, and its needed to access minerals such as calcium and iron.
 
Misfit28 said:
If you want to quote me accurately then do so. Nowhere did I say that it was completely transparent.

The supplement industry thrives on innovation. If every company listed every single thing in their formulae, others would simply copy it.

I am all for non-prop blends, but let's use some common sense here.
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i both agree and disagree...the average guy like would be flustered by prop blends, and if he didn't have access to a site like AM would just have to take the formula for what it says it is-bad for the average joe...but it keeps sales high which means more money for R@D-hopefully...

but lets face it supp companies can hire a guy like pat arnold to dismantle a formula with little to no problem, prop formulas aren't really secret to those on the inside, in my opinion anyways!!!
 
thebigt said:
i both agree and disagree...the average guy like would be flustered by prop blends, and if he didn't have access to a site like AM would just have to take the formula for what it says it is-bad for the average joe...but it keeps sales high which means more money for R@D-hopefully...

but lets face it supp companies can hire a guy like pat arnold to dismantle a formula with little to no problem, prop formulas aren't really secret to those on the inside, in my opinion anyways!!!
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True enough. It would depend on the potential profit to be made from such an investment :)
 
Misfit28 said:
If you want to quote me accurately then do so. Nowhere did I say that it was completely transparent.

The supplement industry thrives on innovation. If every company listed every single thing in their formulae, others would simply copy it.

I am all for non-prop blends, but let's use some common sense here.
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Don't get upset, nothing I said was a shot at you.

Prop blends do not protect companies from being copied, for reasons bigt mentioned.

Misfit28 said:
So, I know that glycine can skew a nitrogen test. Does betaine skew the test because it is a compound (trimethylglycine) that contains glycine? I'm really curious.
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I'm unsure of the reason why (and that one you gave is very plausible) but it does skew the test along with glycine and taurine.
thebigt said:
i both agree and disagree...the average guy like would be flustered by prop blends, and if he didn't have access to a site like AM would just have to take the formula for what it says it is-bad for the average joe...but it keeps sales high which means more money for R@D-hopefully...

but lets face it supp companies can hire a guy like pat arnold to dismantle a formula with little to no problem, prop formulas aren't really secret to those on the inside, in my opinion anyways!!!
Click to expand...
 
jimbuick said:
Don't get upset, nothing I said was a shot at you.

Prop blends do not protect companies from being copied, for reasons bigt mentioned.


I'm unsure of the reason why (and that one you gave is very plausible) but it does skew the test along with glycine and taurine.
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lol...occasionally even PA gets stumped, not often, but it has been known to happen......but you have to think that most prop blends would be a piece of cake.
 
jimbuick said:
Don't get upset, nothing I said was a shot at you.

Prop blends do not protect companies from being copied, for reasons bigt mentioned.


I'm unsure of the reason why (and that one you gave is very plausible) but it does skew the test along with glycine and taurine.
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I shouldn't have gotten aggravated ;) It's been a particularly long day that has yet to end ;)

Thanks for the response :)
 
niners4reggie said:
Agreed! I mean come on with all the negativity! MAN Sports has delivered time and time again with their line of products. Lets give PF3 a chance!
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Thanks Reggie! You are right.
Take that negativity to the house!

This is a friggin health, fitness, and supplement board and we are hear to support each other and the supplement industry!!
It is us against the FDA and anti-bodybuilding, not us against each other
 
drewsicle3210 said:
Thanks Reggie! You are right.
Take that negativity to the house!

This is a friggin health, fitness, and supplement board and we are hear to support each other and the supplement industry!!
It is us against the FDA and anti-bodybuilding, not us against each other
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Completely agree!
 
Piston Honda said:
Body Octane, PR-XT, NXT, Orotine, Vaporize, Scorch: no prop blends.

PF3: 2 ingredients, minimal Betaine HCL.

Give us some credit! Lol
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MAN got no love when pr-xt/nxt 1st came on board...all the science guys were saying ingredients were too low to be effective:

guess what, the science guys were wrong AGAIN!!!!!


ive been messing with supps for a long time, and seen the science boys be wrong too many times to count....TRUTH!!!!!!
 
drewsicle3210 said:
Thanks Reggie! You are right.
Take that negativity to the house!

This is a friggin health, fitness, and supplement board and we are hear to support each other and the supplement industry!!
It is us against the FDA and anti-bodybuilding, not us against each other
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Agree! :)
 
thebigt said:
MAN got no love when pr-xt/nxt 1st came on board...all the science guys were saying ingredients were too low to be effective:

guess what, the science guys were wrong AGAIN!!!!!


ive been messing with supps for a long time, and seen the science boys be wrong too many times to count....TRUTH!!!!!!
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Well spoken sir! You are correct
 
drewsicle3210 said:
Solid rep!
Where the Fugg is neddo?
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Neddo has moved on from MAN but is still active on the boards. I recently commented on another board about how much I miss his musk.
 
thebigt said:
MAN got no love when pr-xt/nxt 1st came on board...all the science guys were saying ingredients were too low to be effective:

guess what, the science guys were wrong AGAIN!!!!!


ive been messing with supps for a long time, and seen the science boys be wrong too many times to count....TRUTH!!!!!!
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Hey now, not everyone is being pessimistic here :P I just found the marketing behind this a bit over the top and there was a lot of insinuation that PF3 was different from Bio-Gro but the two products thus far looks to serve the same purpose and the differences really comes down to where the peptides are sourced from (one sourced it from colostrum the other sourced it from bovine milk protein) and maybe different peptide content as well as ratios (Bio-Gro has the peptides and factors listed, PF3 we really don't know all the peptides that makes up the product). Yes, they may TECHNICALLY be different (different sources for the constituents and different included peptides and different ratios) but the two essentially serve the same purpose (from the looks of it thus far).

There's also the science-y question of how one product highlights low molecular weight/mass to prevent breakdown and improve absorption whilst the other product highlights high molecular weight/mass which leads me to wonder which actually has better absorption or if this whole molecular weight/mass issue is just more marketing speak.

However, I personally can't wait to try PF3 as it looks to be a better servings to $ value. If it's just as effective as Bio-Gro, I'm going to be very happy.
 
jimbuick said:
Was that before or after the most recent rep draft?
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He was on board for that. Keep in mind most, if not all of us reps, have lives outside of the boards. School, work, family, time in general...tough to balance sometimes.
 
I tried answering the molecular weight issue in one of these threads, maybe the other one that popped up yesterday
 
Piston Honda said:
I tried answering the molecular weight issue in one of these threads, maybe the other one that popped up yesterday
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I totally understood what you posted in regards to the molecular weight/mass of PF3, but it didn't really answer the question of the absorption of the peptides themselves. That was the big question because that is one key bullet point which contradicts the molecular weight/mass bullet point for Bio-Gro. I'm of course trusting what you said about asking the bossMAN and am looking forward to what the higher ups comes back with. I only mentioned the molecular weight/mass thing above to provide context as to what some of the questions/controversy/debates about PF3 was about (basically to point out that not all of the posts on the forums were just blind disdain for a new product).
 
Gotcha! Hard at times keeping track of the issues getting brought up. Doing my best!
 
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