Lean Mass Cycle Advice?

jpg0923

New member
I'm 23, 5'10, 190 lbs, and have been training consistently since age 18. I've run one 12 week cycle of Test-E at 500mg/wk.

For my next cycle I'm looking to add lean mass. Cutting a little fat would be a bonus, but my primary focus is to add more quality muscle while not losing any muscle and keeping or increasing my current definition. I naturally have a fast metabolism, so I don't put on much fat anyway. My diet will be mostly based around high protein, I know this ultimately will be the main contributor towards what kind of weight I put on.

I have access to a fairly large variety of AAS so I'm just looking for some recommendations of compounds that might help me with my goal of adding quality lean muscle mass. I've been looking at tren + test base, or possibly something like winstrol or turinabol + test?
 
Epistane? Interesting, I always looked at prohormones to be more for people that don't want to inject or don't want to mess with the illegality of legit gear.. But I guess turinabol and winstrol which I have been considering are also methylated. Just never thought about going with a PH for some reason.
 
jpg0923 said:
Epistane? Interesting, I always looked at prohormones to be more for people that don't want to inject or don't want to mess with the illegality of legit gear.. But I guess turinabol and winstrol which I have been considering are also methylated. Just never thought about going with a PH for some reason.
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It wasn't specified you were referencing injectables. ..
 
Epistane is a great active steroid itself. Now I would never do Winny since its illegal and all but if I had ever compared the two I would prefer epistane over Winny...:p
 
hvactech said:
Epistane + whatever base.....
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This is actually a legit recommendation either way, selecting from injectables or PH/DS. Test works well solo, epi works well solo (for me personally, test burns tons of fat, and epi recomps me)....so both together should = works very well :D I'm a-gonna try it when I get back off vacation, last week of August....trt test/transaderm combo + ~80mg epi ED for 6 weeks. Along with some other OTC supps as well of course, yet to be determined. This is unless I start to get uncomfortable with how much hair is falling out...in which case I will stop the cycle lol. And for whatever reason I'm getting test #'s from labs equivalent to being on 4-500mg of test per week, I'm dropping trt/DHEA doses in half though....so by epi time I'll probably be in the low 1,000's instead of 2,000.
 
hvactech said:
Epistane + whatever base.....
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This ^^^ Epi / Stano all day everyday!!! I'm 6 weeks into this stack and loving it, up 7 lbs so far and it's all lean gains. Check out Invalid Link Removed use code AM20 for 20% off.
 
Only downside to Epi is its fairly weak and has to be ran pretty high 70-100mg imo, which will have you chucking a good deal of money if you dont buy the raw powder, where as you could spend a similar or lesser amount of money on a better oral.
Test+nandrolone+oral is a classic mass builder that is arguably the best at putting on lots of muscle (especially with gh/slin/igf)
Something that would provide a little less water retention would be test+high dose EQ+oral
If you really want to have minimal water retention and lose fat+gain muscle at the same time while staying dry Your options are basically Test+tren or test+primo, and if youd like throw in an oral like var or winny, winny will put more mass on you though as its a stronger anabolic than var.
 
handcannon7 said:
Only downside to Epi is its fairly weak and has to be ran pretty high 70-100mg imo, which will have you chucking a good deal of money if you dont buy the raw powder, where as you could spend a similar or lesser amount of money on a better oral.
Test+nandrolone+oral is a classic mass builder that is arguably the best at putting on lots of muscle (especially with gh/slin/igf)
Something that would provide a little less water retention would be test+high dose EQ+oral
If you really want to have minimal water retention and lose fat+gain muscle at the same time while staying dry Your options are basically Test+tren or test+primo, and if youd like throw in an oral like var or winny, winny will put more mass on you though as its a stronger anabolic than var.
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70-100mg, really?
 
Epi is effective for me at 40mg for 6wks for building lean mass. While I have seen a few running at 70-100mg when I hit 50mg the lethargy is so bad I dont want to get out of bed.
 
Keepitreel said:
I'm betting hand cannon is way bigger and more ripped then u are
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Guys I'm following running at these levels are competitors and have tons of experience and run more cycles in a year than I have in my entire life. But for the common Joe like myself reading this thread the cons far outweigh the pros at those levels.
 
rphash49 said:
Guys I'm following running at these levels are competitors and have tons of experience and run more cycles in a year than I have in my entire life. But for the common Joe like myself reading this thread the cons far outweigh the pros at those levels.
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Epi is weak, you will be disappointed if you ran it at something like 40mg. Also there isnt much to worry about even running it on the higher end, expect some dry joints maybe and maybe elevated BP but you should be fine other than that.
 
Keepitreel said:
I'm betting hand cannon is way bigger and more ripped then u are
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I could care less how "big" he is, lets keep-it-reel here, 100mg of epi for the average once or twice a year cycler is rediculous......
 
handcannon7 said:
Epi is weak, you will be disappointed if you ran it at something like 40mg. Also there isnt much to worry about even running it on the higher end, expect some dry joints maybe and maybe elevated BP but you should be fine other than that.
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I have to disagree. For cutting and recomp cycles it is underrated IMO. I've ran it multiple times stacked and solo at 40mg with great results and little to no sides. Everyone is different I guess
 
rphash49 said:
I have to disagree. For cutting and recomp cycles it is underrated IMO. I've ran it multiple times stacked and solo at 40mg with great results and little to no sides. Everyone is different I guess
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Its not really up for debate that its weak....its a fact that its weak.
You arent going to put on more than 3 or 4lbs trying to recomp with it and you arent going to put on more than 7 or 8 bulking with it @ 40mg. I know people who have ran multiple cycles in the past and have trouble really putting on much weight at all with epi anymore unless the dose is high, and at that point youre better off just using a different compound.
 
handcannon7 said:
Its not really up for debate that its weak....its a fact that its weak.
You arent going to put on more than 3 or 4lbs trying to recomp with it and you arent going to put on more than 7 or 8 bulking with it @ 40mg. I know people who have ran multiple cycles in the past and have trouble really putting on much weight at all with epi anymore unless the dose is high, and at that point youre better off just using a different compound.
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Well I'm glad to hear its not up for debate lmao. Let it be know to all handcannon said epi is weak which means its a fact. The OP is comfortable with injectables so epi may not be the route I would recommend for him. One thing I do agree with you on is if you are bulking its better to use a different compound.
 
Epi was only thing that made my heart hurt even at 30mg Ed. And I've done straight eight balls and im ephedrine
 
handcannon7 said:
Its not really up for debate that its weak....its a fact that its weak.
You arent going to put on more than 3 or 4lbs trying to recomp with it and you arent going to put on more than 7 or 8 bulking with it @ 40mg. I know people who have ran multiple cycles in the past and have trouble really putting on much weight at all with epi anymore unless the dose is high, and at that point youre better off just using a different compound.
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I would have to disagree it is very much up for debate. 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol has an anabolic androgenic ratio of 1100:91 vs methyl test. If we are talking personal opinion it all depends what you are comparing it to Anavar? Winny? both comparable "dry" hormones with similar gains depending on dose but then would you ever really use any of these specifically to bulk? If you are comparing to a 19nor such as Tren user data would imply its much "weaker" but then has anything else ever been used to grow to the extent you can on this steroid while in a contest prep?

I myself can grow on 30mg but optimal dosing for me is about 40mg a day, I do not have a problem putting on weight in a caloric deficit on epistane solo but its true I wont put on much in contest prep &or recomp.

Oh and as a side note I was only using the AA ratio to make the point as these ratios are just about useless for bodybuilding purposes.
 
harbonah said:
I would have to disagree it is very much up for debate. 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol has an anabolic androgenic ratio of 1100:91 vs methyl test. If we are talking personal opinion it all depends what you are comparing it to Anavar? Winny? both comparable "dry" hormones with similar gains depending on dose but then would you ever really use any of these specifically to bulk? If you are comparing to a 19nor such as Tren user data would imply its much "weaker" but then has anything else ever been used to grow to the extent you can on this steroid while in a contest prep?

I myself can grow on 30mg but optimal dosing for me is about 40mg a day, I do not have a problem putting on weight in a caloric deficit on epistane solo but its true I wont put on much in contest prep &or recomp.

Oh and as a side note I was only using the AA ratio to make the point as these ratios are just about useless for bodybuilding purposes.
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Ratios really dont mean all that much.
Winny can actually put a fair amount of mass on you, just obviously no one wants to use it due to its joint issues while bulking. Its not a question on whether or not you can grow on it, its a question of how much. Sure if are still pretty small and havent ran much you can put on a bit of weight with 40mg, there are just better compounds out there.
 
handcannon7 said:
Ratios really dont mean all that much..
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I did point this out in my post. You're doing what I said by comparing them its subjective opinion which is open for debate, either way I think Epistane is stronger then winnie prove me wrong..see the problem there. Some people react better to one compound vs another its just how it is man.

I am not bashing you and you look killer for 20 y/o I hope you do well at Nationals. To of my buddies will be there with you one in masters one in open both heavy weights.
 
harbonah said:
I did point this out in my post. You're doing what I said by comparing them its subjective opinion which is open for debate, either way I think Epistane is stronger then winnie prove me wrong..see the problem there. Some people react better to one compound vs another its just how it is man.
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Ive ran winny before the last 6 weeks of prep up to 100mg, gaining muscle to the point where actually getting my weight to drop (was trying to make middleweight) required me to have a majority of low carb days and lots of cardio even though I was only eating 325p/50-100cho/45fats. Id imagine if I was bulking when I was on winny I would of put on 7-10lbs.
 
I like epi because its (as of today) still legal, and effective. But winny is the shyt for adding a few lbs of lean muscle and shredding up with vascularity. Man that stuff gave me some veins :D epi might be better for recomping at higher doses??? as compared to 50-100mg of winny.....not 100% sure though since recomp is sort of a "new idea" and my run's with winny were a decade ago or more, and were mostly cutting (my more recent use of epi was strictly recomp). Only time I used winny for anything other than cutting was when I stacked it with dbol, so impossible to know what did what when stacking those two.
 
handcannon7 said:
Epi is weak, you will be disappointed if you ran it at something like 40mg. Also there isnt much to worry about even running it on the higher end, expect some dry joints maybe and maybe elevated BP but you should be fine other than that.
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I tend to agree, I have found 60mg or so of epi to be WAY better than 40mg. Next go round? 85mg for me.....7 10mg IBE epi's plus one Ep-Stane 15mg per day for 6 weeks.....I will see whats up with this mega dosing stuff first hand.
 
handcannon7 said:
Ive ran winny before the last 6 weeks of prep up to 100mg, gaining muscle to the point where actually getting my weight to drop (was trying to make middleweight) required me to have a majority of low carb days and lots of cardio even though I was only eating 325p/50-100cho/45fats. Id imagine if I was bulking when I was on winny I would of put on 7-10lbs.
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I have tried Epistane on a bulk and put on 9lbs...but its subjective still as I have known guys who I would compare myself to.....that would not gain that much from Winnie the pooh..so ill stick to my honey pot and you stick to yours... :D


And FYI they both have there value I wont debate that at all, I just prefer one to the other based on my "researching(reading)"..
 
harbonah said:
I have tried Epistane on a bulk and put on 9lbs...but its subjective still as I have known guys who I would compare myself to.....that would not gain that much from Winnie the pooh..so ill stick to my honey pot and you stick to yours... :D


And FYI they both have there value I wont debate that at all, I just prefer one to the other based on my "researching(reading)"..
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Yeah they are both legit, and both have their benefits.....but lets be honest, Winny is on the mount rushmore of roids :D DBOL--WINNY--TEST--DECA lol
 
nelson44bears said:
DBOL WINNY TEST TREN*
Fixed lol :D
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hahaha, yeah deca is more of a personal preference vs. tren.....more than half will choose tren I'm sure....that shyt makes me paranoid and anxious as fck. I'll never use it again after a few bad experiences with it. Deca on the other hand seems to work perfect for me. Plus tren wasn't around in the "olden days" was it? :D
 
AnabolicHolic said:
hahaha, yeah deca is more of a personal preference vs. tren.....more than half will choose tren I'm sure....that shyt makes me paranoid and anxious as fck. I'll never use it again after a few bad experiences with it. Deca on the other hand seems to work perfect for me. Plus tren wasn't around in the "olden days" was it? :D
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Very true! But you know arnold woulda been bathing in that **** if it was!!! Lol :D
 
nelson44bears said:
Very true! But you know arnold woulda been bathing in that **** if it was!!! Lol :D
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pink dbols sprinkled into his lucky charms and milk, and a nice warm tren bath mid-day lol
 
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