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Acetyl l-carnitine v l-carnitine

De__eB said:
Touche! Well played!



So they consumed carnitine and neither their body mass or fat mass changed at all after 12 weeks?

I really don't see how that equates to fat burning if their fat mass was identical before and after the study?

But maybe I'm missing something.

Again, I'm questioning the logic of carnitine as a direct fat burner. Not its usefulness as a fat loss facilitator.
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You always compare them to the control/placebo group unless it's specifically conducted as a longitudinal study. Factors are typically controlled for across groups, not time periods.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
L-carnitine and LCLT are the kinetically superior forms of carnitine, yes. That said, there is interesting data showing PLCAR may have an improved ability to enter the myocyte, and ALCAR can independently stimulate AMPK (another fat loss pathway). The carnitine salts also have benefits independent of fat loss. So your best bet is to pick your poison, because they all rock (except GPLC and L-Car-L-Fumarate)
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correct and like creatine and beta alanine it seems to build within the cell overtime....

do you have that PLCAR reference handy?
 
todd muelheim said:
If one generally works out fasted, aside from the caloric value of GMS as part of the ArA/LCLT/GMS stack, would it be effective to take the ArA and GMS pre workout and the LCLT with the post workout meal and a later meal?
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take carnitine with carbohydrate containing meals...
 
Damn I just bought more PLCAR for my Pwo blend..Should I take it w/ my pwo meal then? And everything else after it's all digested..?
 
Celorza said:
...seriously trying to be positive here. Heck I know it must seem impossible from me, but meh, time will tell and help spread the news. My actions are not with ill will no more, but one cannot just wash away the mistakes and damage done.
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Anabolicminds Counseling sessions, $29.99.
 
Celorza said:
I think I might be wrong on this one...but I think he was just taunting and trolling De__eB into an argument for the sake of it... I don't know why though, we are all adults and the past is past right?
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So one can't ask why? I find that to be a bit communist in thought.

I personally feel this conversation is leading to great information.
 
aaronuconn said:
So based on present literature, is L-Carnitine superior or at least on par with the various carnitine salts for fat loss? Given its cost, it would seem regular Carnitine would be the way to go if weight loss is your main objective.
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Other forms of Carnitine can make systemic circulation quicker, if LCT was used, it theoretically could of lead to quicker results..
 
De__eB said:
Nutr Metab (Lond). 2009 Jun 2;6:25. doi: 10.1186/1743-7075-6-25.

ALCA, but not placebo, resulted in an increase in nitrate/nitrite (25.4 ± 1.9 to 30.1 ± 2.8 mumol·L⁻¹) from pre to post intervention, with post intervention values greater compared to placebo (p = 0.01)




Hmm? Didn't mean to come across that way.
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at first glance the group is pre-diabetic and results aren't that great. Arginine would probably be more effective.
 
USPlabsRep said:
Other forms of Carnitine can make systemic circulation quicker, if LCT was used, it theoretically could of lead to quicker results..
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Which brings to mind an interesting question.


Lots of talk about different forms of carnitine and their absorption rates.

In long term consumption do these more rapidly absorbed forms of carnitine bring with them higher maximal myocyte concentrations or do they just reach the maximum concentration faster?

Were one to consume increased amounts of plain L-carnitine would that make up for the absorption differences and lead to similar levels?

USPlabsRep said:
at first glance the group is pre-diabetic and results aren't that great. Arginine would probably be more effective.
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The results are relatively close to the effects shown in the GPLC nitrate/nitrite study.

Oh, something interesting I just noticed looking at the GPLC study:

Using a double blind, crossover design, 15 healthy men (24 ± 4 years) were assigned to GPLC (3 g/d PLC + 1044 mg glycine) and a placebo

They simply used glycine + PLCAR for that study, so they can't even try to claim that it's something bonded GPLC specific.
 
USPlabsRep said:
I was waiting on your evidence to support your statement. You could be right.

Cooper beat me to it...There is also a recent animal study that falls in line.
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On phone now, but there's plenty out there that indicates Cantitine solely doesn't elect fat loss.

Cooper's study is interesting for sure though. Looks like previous studies were administering incorrectly.
 
USPlabsRep said:
correct and like creatine and beta alanine it seems to build within the cell overtime....

do you have that PLCAR reference handy?
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You can find the biochemical dissocation here: Invalid Link Removed. There's 1 or 2 other studies that link off this one (or link off a link of this one) that also support PLCAR uptake, with the emphasis on propionyl-CoA
 
mr.cooper69 said:
You can find the biochemical dissocation here: Invalid Link Removed. There's 1 or 2 other studies that link off this one (or link off a link of this one) that also support PLCAR uptake, with the emphasis on propionyl-CoA
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If its price point was a bit better, it would probably find its way in more fat loss products.
 
USPlabsRep said:
So one can't ask why? I find that to be a bit communist in thought.

I personally feel this conversation is leading to great information.
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I agree.

I'm learning so much about carnitine its ridiculous. (My previous knowledge, and drive to learn, of/about carnitine was next to nothing :thumbsup: )
 
Does ALCAR have improved results w/ the presence of insulin in the bloodstream similar to PLCAR?
 
aaronuconn said:
I've honestly always taken it alongside Na-R-ALA on an empty stomach in the AM, usually followed by 50g+ of carbs.
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Same here, alongside Agmatine also.
 
mcc23 said:
For GDA purposes? If so, you're already pretty insulin sensitive after 8 hours of fasting
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If I guess correctly, I believe dosing agmatine in the morning plays a role in peptide hormone/GH release. Don't remember where I pulled that from.
 
domore said:
If I guess correctly, I believe dosing agmatine in the morning plays a role in peptide hormone/GH release. Don't remember where I pulled that from.
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Actually I think dosing before bed enhanced the nocturnal GH release..
 
Geez examine has their **** together. A very thorough and succinct description of agmatine. Bookmarking!
 
"8. Interactions with Hormones

8.1. Luteinizing Hormone

Injections of agmatine into the hypothalamus appear to dose-dependently cause secretion of luteinizing hormone, thought to be secondary to activating imidazoline receptors"


From that same link.
 
mcc23 said:
"8. Interactions with Hormones

8.1. Luteinizing Hormone

Injections of agmatine into the hypothalamus appear to dose-dependently cause secretion of luteinizing hormone, thought to be secondary to activating imidazoline receptors"

From that same link.
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Being that Agmatine's pharmacokinetics is still somewhat blurry, it'a tough to say how oral consumption weighs up against the common injection administration we see in Agmatine studies.
 
aaronuconn said:
Being that Agmatine's pharmacokinetics is still somewhat blurry, it'a tough to say how oral consumption weighs up against the common injection administration we see in Agmatine studies.
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They injected directly into the hypothalamus not into systemic circulation.
 
mcc23 said:
"8. Interactions with Hormones

8.1. Luteinizing Hormone

Injections of agmatine into the hypothalamus appear to dose-dependently cause secretion of luteinizing hormone, thought to be secondary to activating imidazoline receptors"


From that same link.
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I for one enjoy agmatine. Myself and a few others at usp taken blood on a few compounds while using agmatine and it did not increase LH.
 
mcc23 said:
It's better than ALCAR ime
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I completely agree with you. Although it never seemed to really take off or garner the attention it should have.
 
Learned quite a bit in here. I've been taking GPLC for quite some time now after having taken ALCAR for an even longer period of time. Oh well lol. Mind is partially blown.
 
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