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Berberine induced Atrogin-1/AMPk

De__eB

Well-known member
Some rat studies indicate suppressed muscle protein synthesis and increased muscle protein breakdown via both directly caused increases in Atrogin-1, as well as via AMPK -> Myostatin & Atrogin-1 signalling.

While it appears to be remarkably effective in glucose metabolism regulation, are these effects significant enough to justify concern in using Berberine supplements?

Does THEHUGE post here? I'd be interested in his take on this since he formulated Burn24 (an outstanding product) which includes berberine.
 
De__eB said:
Some rat studies indicate suppressed muscle protein synthesis and increased muscle protein breakdown via both directly caused increases in Atrogin-1, as well as via AMPK -> Myostatin & Atrogin-1 signalling.

While it appears to be remarkably effective in glucose metabolism regulation, are these effects significant enough to justify concern in using Berberine supplements?

Does THEHUGE post here? I'd be interested in his take on this since he formulated Burn24 (an outstanding product) which includes berberine.
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Coop has spoken a myriad of times about his opinion on many supplements that contain it...not only Burn24 , and while they are good for GDA purposes...they do hinder muscle hypertrophy. Would love to see if Coop wants to go at it once more hehe.
 
Oh, in for coop then.

I also can't really tell just how much of an effect we're looking at.

Given that muscle protein synthesis is already significantly enhanced by exercise and BCAA/protein consumption, is it even enough of an effect to worry about?

As long as you're keeping synthesis at a rate higher than breakdown, or even keeping it close during a cut, is it really that problematic?
 
Yeah I've seen this. It was demonstrated in normal mice too, but I think the key here is understanding the big picture. Yes, berberine potently induces AMPK, but in trained individuals, this will simply increase glucose flux (and subsequent glycogen storage) in muscle tissue. In the context of a high protein diet (lots of mTOR signaling) and resistance training, me thinks the effects would be rather negligible. We don't see people on berberine or metformin catabolizing ridiculous amounts of muscle tissue typically
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Yeah I've seen this. It was demonstrated in normal mice too, but I think the key here is understanding the big picture. Yes, berberine potently induces AMPK, but in trained individuals, this will simply increase glucose flux (and subsequent glycogen storage) in muscle tissue. In the context of a high protein diet (lots of mTOR signaling) and resistance training, me thinks the effects would be rather negligible. We don't see people on berberine or metformin catabolizing ridiculous amounts of muscle tissue typically
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Cool. That was my logical conclusion, and seemed to be the google concensus, but I figured I'd get some current opinion on it.
 
De__eB said:
Oh, in for coop then.

I also can't really tell just how much of an effect we're looking at.

Given that muscle protein synthesis is already significantly enhanced by exercise and BCAA/protein consumption, is it even enough of an effect to worry about?

As long as you're keeping synthesis at a rate higher than breakdown, or even keeping it close during a cut, is it really that problematic?
Click to expand...

I remember the expression of it being higher in diabetics rather than normal individuals. I am not sure tho.

There was an old post by MulletSoldier that touched on this pretty well. Ill try and do a search for it.

Ill try and help find more information for you on the matter

Invalid Link Removed
 
De__eB said:
Some rat studies indicate suppressed muscle protein synthesis and increased muscle protein breakdown via both directly caused increases in Atrogin-1, as well as via AMPK -> Myostatin & Atrogin-1 signalling.

While it appears to be remarkably effective in glucose metabolism regulation, are these effects significant enough to justify concern in using Berberine supplements?

Does THEHUGE post here? I'd be interested in his take on this since he formulated Burn24 (an outstanding product) which includes berberine.
Click to expand...

to put in context, exercise increases AMPK.
 
USPlabsRep said:
to put in context, exercise increases AMPK.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I get that, exercise also induces mTOR beyond the inhibition caused by AMPK though, and chronic exercise blunts the atrogin-1 response to training. The concomitant increases in both hypertrophic and atrophic mechanisms as a response to exercise is quite interesting. All a matter of maximizing the positive effects of AMPK while minimizing the negatives I suppose.

Adel Moussa has a bunch of articles on AMPK/mTOR/intermittent fasting on his website (suppversity) that I found to be a very good read over coffee this morning.
 
De__eB said:
Yeah, I get that, exercise also induces mTOR beyond the inhibition caused by AMPK though, and chronic exercise blunts the atrogin-1 response to training. The concomitant increases in both hypertrophic and atrophic mechanisms as a response to exercise is quite interesting. All a matter of maximizing the positive effects of AMPK while minimizing the negatives I suppose.

Adel Moussa has a bunch of articles on AMPK/mTOR/intermittent fasting on his website (suppversity) that I found to be a very good read over coffee this morning.
Click to expand...

Are you allowed to post a link? Always want to read and learn more.
 
USPlabsRep said:
High protein intake can lower lifespan by mTOR signaling...Are we going stop eating a high protein diet to possibly save a few years?
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Not IMO, but I am just a youngling , what do I know about the later stages of life?
 
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