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On day 4 of Fadogia Agrestis (T-Force)....

Killler said:
How would I rate T-Force,from my point of view?


Well,it takes 10 days to feel,kicks in for 3,4 days (I am not sure if the libido was from T-Force,and not just the summer weather),
and then leaves completely.

Does not boost test.

Doesn`t have any side effects,except for stomach discomfort if you take more than 1 capsule at a time.

Only cost me 17.99$.


I give it 2 / 10.
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So you feel that the libido boost was nothing more than the placebo effect?
 
Killler said:
I`m afraid it was,yes.
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Libido can be boosted independently of testosterone (ala tribulus).Also, as I've stated before, if your T is low, no testosterone booster will help unless it directly addresses the cause of hypogonadism. Otherwise, you're just accelerating Step X of testosterone synthesis while Step Y is the broken/rate-limiting one.
 
A lot of crazy things influence libido..:ie: hangover horny..ya can't beat it..lol...but ya can't understand why...lol....anyhow I think the foundation relies on individual T:E ratio that everyone's body reacts different to...but with Free Testosterone being a major factor.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Libido can be boosted independently of testosterone (ala tribulus).Also, as I've stated before, if your T is low, no testosterone booster will help unless it directly addresses the cause of hypogonadism. Otherwise, you're just accelerating Step X of testosterone synthesis while Step Y is the broken/rate-limiting one.
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I have been giving this a lot of thought.

What you said a few months ago....about the "broken step" in testosterone production.

But why wouldn`t I get a boost in T from one of these herbs,if they work.

That step might be limiting my testosterone synthesis but if one of the other "steps" gets a boost,I should see some kind of boost in the end result too:T.


I am convinced that the majority of these herbs stimulate libido in another way,irrelevant of testosterone,as you said,but are being marketed to us like "androgen boosters",because most of us think that a libido boost comes solely from androgens.
And there is so little people that do bloods,because of their high private cost and the inability to get them any time you want if relying on insurance.



In my case....
I don`t know really what could be causing my problems.
But I suspect something like this:
I have huge swole balls.They are perfectly fine,without abnormalities,as confirmed by scan.Seems they are producing plenty.My LH is fine.
My bloods show low total T / high E2.
Seems this could be an enzyme problem:body is converting much of the produced test to estrogen.
And why it is doing this I don`t have a clue.
 
Killler said:
I have been giving this a lot of thought.

What you said a few months ago....about the "broken step" in testosterone production.

But why wouldn`t I get a boost in T from one of these herbs,if they work.

That step might be limiting my testosterone synthesis but if one of the other "steps" gets a boost,I should see some kind of boost in the end result too:T.


I am convinced that the majority of these herbs stimulate libido in another way,irrelevant of testosterone,as you said,but are being marketed to us like "androgen boosters",because most of us think that a libido boost comes solely from androgens.
And there is so little people that do bloods,because of their high private cost and the inability to get them any time you want if relying on insurance.



In my case....
I don`t know really what could be causing my problems.
But I suspect something like this:
I have huge swole balls.They are perfectly fine,without abnormalities,as confirmed by scan.Seems they are producing plenty.My LH is fine.
My bloods show low total T / high E2.
Seems this could be an enzyme problem:body is converting much of the produced test to estrogen.
And why it is doing this I don`t have a clue.
Click to expand...

This is an incredibly oversimplified model, but just to give you an idea:

Let's say

A -> B -> C -> Testosterone

Now let's say Step B -> C is broken. It occurs way too slowly and is rate-limiting in the production of testosterone.

It doesn't matter how much I speed up Step A -> B, because step B -> C is still occurring at the same slow rate.

So I could multiply the rate of Step A->B by, let's say, 1 MILLION. What's gonna happen to the rate of T production? Absolutely nothing, because Step B->C is still chugging along.



Again, this is a gross oversimplification and testosterone synthesis definitely does not follow a linear pathway, so I'll give you a real-life example too.

One cause of hypogonadism is heavy testicular oxidative stress. In this case, it doesn't matter how much you try to influence steroid hormone biosynthesis, because testicular function is compromised. You can keep releasing LH until you're blue in the face, but your testes will be largely unresponsive.

Again, an oversimplification, but the point is this:

There seems to be this idea that people can only benefit from T-boosters if their T is low. However, if the T is pathologically low and not due to basic factors like suboptimal LH output, then one really does not stand to benefit from testosterone boosters in the spectrum of testosterone synthesis. However, people with this "pathologically low T" may very well feel the effects of testosterone boosters (e.g. libido/mood) more than a eugonadal individual.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
This is an incredibly oversimplified model, but just to give you an idea:

Let's say

A -> B -> C -> Testosterone

Now let's say Step B -> C is broken. It occurs way too slowly and is rate-limiting in the production of testosterone.

It doesn't matter how much I speed up Step A -> B, because step B -> C is still occurring at the same slow rate.

So I could multiply the rate of Step A->B by, let's say, 1 MILLION. What's gonna happen to the rate of T production? Absolutely nothing, because Step B->C is still chugging along.



Again, this is a gross oversimplification and testosterone synthesis definitely does not follow a linear pathway, so I'll give you a real-life example too.

One cause of hypogonadism is heavy testicular oxidative stress. In this case, it doesn't matter how much you try to influence steroid hormone biosynthesis, because testicular function is compromised. You can keep releasing LH until you're blue in the face, but your testes will be largely unresponsive.

Again, an oversimplification, but the point is this:

There seems to be this idea that people can only benefit from T-boosters if their T is low. However, if the T is pathologically low and not due to basic factors like suboptimal LH output, then one really does not stand to benefit from testosterone boosters in the spectrum of testosterone synthesis. However, people with this "pathologically low T" may very well feel the effects of testosterone boosters (e.g. libido/mood) more than a eugonadal individual.
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Thank you very much for taking the time to explain mr.Coop!

I appreciate it....

Just one more question:
Why would I be feeling the effects of test boosters if my androgens are intact?
 
Killler, I'm curious as to why you're not just sticking to your LJ100 for test boosting. From reading your prior posts it seems you had great results with testojack and you had the bloodwork to back it up.
 
JWest0926 said:
Do I need to cycle off Fadogia? I feel better when I am on it.

Thanks JWest
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You can cycle on to other test boosting supplements while off Fadogia. iForce has a healthy array of options for your perusal including: Tribulus 2400, Testabolan V2, Reversitol V2, Intimidate SRT, and Tropinol XP.
 
laneanders said:
You can cycle on to other test boosting supplements while off Fadogia. iForce has a healthy array of options for your perusal including: Tribulus 2400, Testabolan V2, Reversitol V2, Intimidate SRT, and Tropinol XP.
Click to expand...

Tropinol XP contains fadogia.
 
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