Bio-Chemical Method to Increase Muscle Tonus

Sub7

Member
Hi Patrick,

There are various observations which, taken as a whole, suggest (to me at least) that a steady state of elevated tonus is very hypertrophy inducing in muscles. In other words, a constantly elevated muscle tension results in growth. The strongest scientific support for this comes from the famous bird study, where a constant stretch of their chest muscles resulted in -as far as I know- pretty much the fastest muscular hypertrophy ever on record. (this is a neat link with several relevant studies: Invalid Link Removed I did not want clutter this thread by posting them all here).

It is also interesting to note that people tend to report constant tension (a constant pumped feeling) from many potent AAS, and -among others of course- this may be one of the MOAs that steroids are causing muscle growth. We also know how fat guys can develop amazing calves without ever doing a set of calf work in the gym.

My question is: Can you think of a (relatively) safe biochemical method of inducing an elevated tension in the muscles at rest, without going through the AR? Do you consider such a route feasible and/or worthy of study?

Thank you very much for your time and attention

Sub
 
Sub7 said:
Hi Patrick,

There are various observations which, taken as a whole, suggest (to me at least) that a steady state of elevated tonus is very hypertrophy inducing in muscles. In other words, a constantly elevated muscle tension results in growth. The strongest scientific support for this comes from the famous bird study, where a constant stretch of their chest muscles resulted in -as far as I know- pretty much the fastest muscular hypertrophy ever on record. (this is a neat link with several relevant studies: Invalid Link Removed I did not want clutter this thread by posting them all here).

It is also interesting to note that people tend to report constant tension (a constant pumped feeling) from many potent AAS, and -among others of course- this may be one of the MOAs that steroids are causing muscle growth. We also know how fat guys can develop amazing calves without ever doing a set of calf work in the gym.

My question is: Can you think of a (relatively) safe biochemical method of inducing an elevated tension in the muscles at rest, without going through the AR? Do you consider such a route feasible and/or worthy of study?

Thank you very much for your time and attention

Sub
Click to expand...

biochemical?

I suppose you can give yourself a tetanus infection. I dont think the end result would be anabolism though

I dont agree that AAS work by causing elevated muscle tone which then inititates anabolism. I think everything sort of goes hand in hand. And when AAS start to cause excessive tonicity of muscles you end up with problems like "back pumps" and injuries
 
I assume you would want this method to be selective and somewhat transient? I can't see anything but bad news from this (even if you manage to somehow avoid the heart with it).

Continuous muscle tension may increase hypertrophy, but I feel as though there would be health complications.
 
pump3d said:
I assume you would want this method to be selective and somewhat transient? I can't see anything but bad news from this (even if you manage to somehow avoid the heart with it).

Continuous muscle tension may increase hypertrophy, but I feel as though there would be health complications.
Click to expand...


how about some sort of device to provide a constant current to the muscle so it is in a state of elevated tone?

if it results in occlusion of blood flow though that could be bad
 
Patrick Arnold said:
how about some sort of device to provide a constant current to the muscle so it is in a state of elevated tone?

if it results in occlusion of blood flow though that could be bad
Click to expand...

Are we talking modalities?
Technically, electrical stimulation does place the muscle in a constant state of elevated tone depending on the parameters you select.
There may be some truth to constantly providing tension to muscles results in muscle growth. Anecedotally if you observe people who walk on their forefeet they tend to have hypertrophied triceps surae (gastroc-soleus complexes).

A recent systematic literature review performed on electromyostimulation revealed this (89 studies included)

Special focus was on trained and elite athletes. Untrained athletes were investigated for comparison purposes. This scientific analysis revealed that EMS is effective for developing physical performance. After a stimulation period of 3–6 weeks, significant gains (p < 0.05) were shown in maximal strength (isometric Fmax +58.8%; dynamic Fmax +79.5%), speed strength (eccentric isokinetic Mmax +37.1%; concentric isokinetic Mmax + 41.3%; rate of force development + 74%; force impulse + 29%; vmax + 19%), and power (+67%). Developing these parameters increases vertical jump height by up to +25% (squat jump +21.4%, countermovement jump +19.2%, drop jump +12%) and improves sprint times by as much as –4.8% in trained and elite athletes. With regard to the level of fitness, the analysis shows that trained and elite athletes, despite their already high level of fitness, are able to significantly enhance their level of strength to same extent as is possible with untrained subjects. The EMS offers a promising alternative to traditional strength training for enhancing the strength parameters and motor abilities described above. Because of the clear-cut advantages in time management, especially when whole-body EMS is used, we can expect this method to see the increasing use in high-performance sports.
 
braskibra said:
Are we talking modalities?
Technically, electrical stimulation does place the muscle in a constant state of elevated tone depending on the parameters you select.
There may be some truth to constantly providing tension to muscles results in muscle growth. Anecedotally if you observe people who walk on their forefeet they tend to have hypertrophied triceps surae (gastroc-soleus complexes).

A recent systematic literature review performed on electromyostimulation revealed this (89 studies included)

Special focus was on trained and elite athletes. Untrained athletes were investigated for comparison purposes. This scientific analysis revealed that EMS is effective for developing physical performance. After a stimulation period of 3–6 weeks, significant gains (p < 0.05) were shown in maximal strength (isometric Fmax +58.8%; dynamic Fmax +79.5%), speed strength (eccentric isokinetic Mmax +37.1%; concentric isokinetic Mmax + 41.3%; rate of force development + 74%; force impulse + 29%; vmax + 19%), and power (+67%). Developing these parameters increases vertical jump height by up to +25% (squat jump +21.4%, countermovement jump +19.2%, drop jump +12%) and improves sprint times by as much as –4.8% in trained and elite athletes. With regard to the level of fitness, the analysis shows that trained and elite athletes, despite their already high level of fitness, are able to significantly enhance their level of strength to same extent as is possible with untrained subjects. The EMS offers a promising alternative to traditional strength training for enhancing the strength parameters and motor abilities described above. Because of the clear-cut advantages in time management, especially when whole-body EMS is used, we can expect this method to see the increasing use in high-performance sports.
Click to expand...

Got a link for that study? I know Bruce Lee was big into eletrical stimulation. Id like to see more studies on its effectiveness.
 
braskibra said:
Are we talking modalities?
Technically, electrical stimulation does place the muscle in a constant state of elevated tone depending on the parameters you select.
There may be some truth to constantly providing tension to muscles results in muscle growth. Anecedotally if you observe people who walk on their forefeet they tend to have hypertrophied triceps surae (gastroc-soleus complexes).

A recent systematic literature review performed on electromyostimulation revealed this (89 studies included)

Special focus was on trained and elite athletes. Untrained athletes were investigated for comparison purposes. This scientific analysis revealed that EMS is effective for developing physical performance. After a stimulation period of 3–6 weeks, significant gains (p < 0.05) were shown in maximal strength (isometric Fmax +58.8%; dynamic Fmax +79.5%), speed strength (eccentric isokinetic Mmax +37.1%; concentric isokinetic Mmax + 41.3%; rate of force development + 74%; force impulse + 29%; vmax + 19%), and power (+67%). Developing these parameters increases vertical jump height by up to +25% (squat jump +21.4%, countermovement jump +19.2%, drop jump +12%) and improves sprint times by as much as –4.8% in trained and elite athletes. With regard to the level of fitness, the analysis shows that trained and elite athletes, despite their already high level of fitness, are able to significantly enhance their level of strength to same extent as is possible with untrained subjects. The EMS offers a promising alternative to traditional strength training for enhancing the strength parameters and motor abilities described above. Because of the clear-cut advantages in time management, especially when whole-body EMS is used, we can expect this method to see the increasing use in high-performance sports.
Click to expand...


that abstract seems a little hard to believe if i read it correctly
 
That's a fruitful discussion. Thanks for the great contributions Gentlemen

Here is something purely anecdotal -just food for thought:
Invalid Link Removed

And Patrick, just to clarify, I never meant to say that the increased tonus was the most important MOA of AAS as far as muscle growth is concerned. I merely suggested that it may be one of many MOAs involved...
 
Patrick Arnold said:
that wasnt really a study but a compilation of 89 studies
Click to expand...

yes, it is termed a systematic review deeming it a higher source of evidence than an RCT although I am still skeptical of the results and I also dont understand the full context of the results since I havent read the entire review. I will try and pull the entire text if anyones interested.

The hypertrophy and strength properties of e-stim are well established in certain populations, i.e post acl reconstruction etc. Obviously most of the research has not been performed on things us strength or bodybuilder type athletes are interested in.

yes I can probably get my hands on the full text albeit i still wont be able to post it here on the forum. I will dig around tonight or tomorrow and see if I can get any other, preferrably RCTs, on e-stim pertaining to athlete/bodybuilder type strength/hypertrophy. The russians were big into "russian stim" awhile back but im not 100% sure on the functional differences in results compared to e-stim (russian stim is considered high-frequency).
 
Patrick Arnold said:
how about some sort of device to provide a constant current to the muscle so it is in a state of elevated tone?

if it results in occlusion of blood flow though that could be bad
Click to expand...

I could be wrong but I think I remember reading Mel siff mention electrical stimulation for something. Then again it takes just idiot to go too far with it...
 
bossman523 said:
i've often wondered what constant electrical penile stimulation would be like.
Click to expand...

hopefully not srs

dont think it would elicit the kind of response your inferring, the penis erects via vascular flow not muscle activation. Although you may inadvertantly stimulate the cremastric muscle (yes a real muscle) which may draw your testicles up and into you stomach
 
bossman523 said:
i've often wondered what constant electrical penile stimulation would be like.
Click to expand...

Just go bang an electrical socket...

not sure if you will need lube though.
 
We use "Russian E-stim" as a protocol, but mostly for people who are very, very weak (ie someone who is having trouble contracting his/her muscle or cannot take it through the full range of motion for that joint). We don't use "Russian" that on someone who is healthy..typically we use estim for pain control, inflammation, sometimes it's used for wound healing, but I haven't seen it used for that in some time..

Constant muscle tone, like spasticity? I can sort of understand your line of thinking, but you don't want too much of good thing (think upper motor neuron lesions, MS, stroke, spinal cord injury)..
 
braskibra said:
hopefully not srs

dont think it would elicit the kind of response your inferring, the penis erects via vascular flow not muscle activation. Although you may inadvertantly stimulate the cremastric muscle (yes a real muscle) which may draw your testicles up and into you stomach
Click to expand...

ouch!
 
KimChee said:
We use "Russian E-stim" as a protocol, but mostly for people who are very, very weak (ie someone who is having trouble contracting his/her muscle or cannot take it through the full range of motion for that joint). We don't use "Russian" that on someone who is healthy..typically we use estim for pain control, inflammation, sometimes it's used for wound healing, but I haven't seen it used for that in some time..

Constant muscle tone, like spasticity? I can sort of understand your line of thinking, but you don't want too much of good thing (think upper motor neuron lesions, MS, stroke, spinal cord injury)..
Click to expand...

yes understood but what about either superimposing stim over muscle contractions while exercising or isometric stim to max threshold. Not including the systematic review above for trained athletes, ive read a few studies improving vertical jump etc. Im assuming insurance companies aren't going to reimburse for stim for someone who is healthy/at the point where their looking to improve peak athletic performance so it would be understood that your russian stim protocol is catered to relatively decreased muscle performance population
 
braskibra said:
yes understood but what about either superimposing stim over muscle contractions while exercising or isometric stim to max threshold. Not including the systematic review above for trained athletes, ive read a few studies improving vertical jump etc.
Click to expand...

Interesting idea;
any input on this?
 
Yes if u read the 2nd portion of the review it suggests parameters for use. The biggest problem with stim for gains in the normal/athlete is tolerance to a high dosage of e stim; its uncomfortable to say the least
 
multiple skeetrosis discussions with PA.
 
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