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DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

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Docmattic said:
I didn't get anxious all the time. I got confused regularly though. I just put it down to managing Work, uni, basketball, weights and just a generally busy scheduale. That article reminded me of it. I laughed at the spend several hours at the gym reference in there. My girl went off at me so many times when i said Id be back from the gym at 7 and didnt get back till about 9 or 10. I did like that effect.
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reminds me of the stories of housewives in the 60s who would take those wonder pills (amphetamines) and then vacuum the floor and clean the walls and cook dinner and lunch and clean the gutters and then pace the floor. My aunt was one of those until she realized something was f-ed up
 
Angelbolic said:
The largest Norwegian newspaper also reported about this finding:aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Svensk-politi-Kosttilskuddet-Craze-er-narkotika-7169008.html#.UWQcuJPwl7lInteresting to read DS rebuttal and the supplement shop claiming they did buy Craze directly from DS:'' In an email to the SVT claims the manufacturer Driven Sports that the laboratory test must be wrong.- Craze does not contain the alleged chemical substance. Here we have a counterfeit product to make, claims the manufacturer.Gymgrossisten said in turn that they have imported Craze directly from the manufacturer.''
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i figured they would resort to the counterfeit argument
 
I never had any bad or ill side effects from craze, just good focus during workouts. I will continue to use this product as long as its still sold. Just picked up the pineapple fruit punch, can't wait to try it.
 
Docmattic said:
For those who need it translated:
They bring up all the side effects I've felt at one time or another on craze. When i first started taking craze i was anxious as hell after my workout. I also got confused (as outlined in the article) all the time. I couldn't even get basic sentences out because i kept forgetting what i was trying to say mid sentence.

An interesting read.
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Same here. I would be going balls-to-the-wall at work but I can't say I was always as "focused" as I should be.... More like a dull, mindless kind of tunnel-vision. Intermittent memory lapses and anxiety as well. One of those things where it seemed great for about an hour or two and then kicked into that "unclean stim" kind of feeling.

Looks like sh!t is coming down the pike and fast.
 
Angelbolic said:
Yeah, this doesn't come as a suprise.

Interestingly, the first 4 numbers of the lot number on the Craze bottle in the Swedish videoclip seemed to be a little bit rubbed off:

gyazo(.)com/2a614aab04b2e386eeda6efd20f10419

According to DS this shouldn't be possible with counterfeit Craze:

''Another very obvious red flag, however, is that genuine Craze® has the lot number stamped onto the label during production. The counterfeit Craze® products used a genuine lot number from a previous batch, however rather than stamping it onto the side of the label they printed it on the label. In other words, the lot number was on the label when the label came out of the printer; it was not stamped on during production. If you were to scrape the lot number of genuine Craze® it will come off (though the indent from the stamp will remain). If you try to scrape the lot number of the counterfeits it will not rub off."

​getds(.)com/images/Craze1-Original(1).png

Anyone want to speculate what their next excuse will be?
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I'm sure they've got more than a few in the clip...
Ok, let's assume for a minute this counterfeit Craze story is true. How hard would it be to identify the culprits and why hasn't anything like that been talked about? The first several tubs of Craze I took were ordered from a very popular website. They gave me a drug-like feel and many of the side-effects stated by several people on these boards.
If those were counterfeit then they couldn't be that hard to trace back to their source, could they?
 
If this thing continues to go down the path its going and this is all proven true, which IMO it will be, certain people might be in for an awesome extended vacation....


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I just don't get it. How could everyone else experience these side effects, but I don't feel anything at all? Does that mean meth wouldn't have any effect on me either? And I actually managed to track down an "early" tub of Craze...
 
My first tub I had extreme effects, incredible focus, energy for hours. Then I would crash hard. The second tub I got, from the same supplement store, I got none of those effects. I thought maybe I had built up a tolerance.

I just got in a tub of the Raspberry Lemonade but haven't opened it and really don't want to now.

I'm just curious what tubs have the meth analog and which ones do not? I'm sure everyone wants to know that. Any chance that the exported version of Craze has the analog and the US version does not? Assuming there is a US version and a export version that is?
 
SpicedCider said:
I just don't get it. How could everyone else experience these side effects, but I don't feel anything at all? Does that mean meth wouldn't have any effect on me either? And I actually managed to track down an "early" tub of Craze...
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try smoking it
 
Pat,

Most people say that the early batches of craze were much better than the current ones. Yet these new reports coming out citing the meth analogue seem to suggest they are finding it in current batches. Do you have any theory for this difference between batches? Maybe the earlier batches just had MORE of the analogue?
 
mmats said:
Pat,

Most people say that the early batches of craze were much better than the current ones. Yet these new reports coming out citing the meth analogue seem to suggest they are finding it in current batches. Do you have any theory for this difference between batches? Maybe the earlier batches just had MORE of the analogue?
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I think it may be a question of the amount of analog. Yes
 
Patrick Arnold said:
I think it may be a question of the amount of analog. Yes
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I was hoping that since I hadn't noticed the same effects in the second tub as the first tub that I hadn't been taking the analog anymore. I guess only DS knows if there are batches with none or lower amounts than the original which was extremely strong.
 
Patuba said:
I was hoping that since I hadn't noticed the same effects in the second tub as the first tub that I hadn't been taking the analog anymore. I guess only DS knows if there are batches with none or lower amounts than the original which was extremely strong.
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Assuming they know exactly what goes into their product
 
Patrick Arnold said:
Assuming they know exactly what goes into their product
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Good point. I forgot about the possibility of DS not knowing what they were putting in their product; like contaminated raw material from China.
 
theish11 said:
Sounds like craze is good ****. Did they change the formula?
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There has been tons of speculation that DS secretly changed the formula. I haven't found evidence that says they have without question. DS has denied changing it.
 
someone like southpaw should post on bb.com and educate some of the posters in this thread regarding drug testing

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Testing for stimulants by athletic organizations is done by GC/MS. It is SPECIFIC for exact compounds. Same as with steroids. A novel amphetamine derivative such as the one in question here has not caught attention of drug testers until very recently. They JUST started testing for it and there is at least one positive that has come out recently.

Testing for stimulants by non athlete organizations sometimes uses immunoassays. This can pick up some amphetamine like stuff but some it does not. For instance ephedrine cross reacts but 1,3-DMAA rarely cross reacts.

This is why passing a drug test in the past is no evidence for or against this contamination issue
 
agenda and strong motive?

and DS doesnt have an agenda and strong motive

you idiot you cannot have it both ways

somoene is lying to you, someone is telling the truth
 
i have pure hatred for anyone more succesful than i am? excuse me? when have i ever displayed such an attitude. you owe me an apology
 
What does neuron/madchemist think about all this? Isnt he the one that had the initial feeling the product was spiked with amphetamines?
 
I am not a chemist, so I am wondering what the difference is between these four substances?

N-ethyl-Beta-Methylphenylethylamine

n-benzyl-2-phenethylamine

N-ethyl-α-ethylphenethylamine

N-ethyl-1-phenyl-2-butylamine
 
baldymcgee said:
I am not a chemist, so I am wondering what the difference is between these four substances?

N-ethyl-Beta-Methylphenylethylamine

n-benzyl-2-phenethylamine

N-ethyl-α-ethylphenethylamine

N-ethyl-1-phenyl-2-butylamine
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The last two are the same, although the latter uses a somewhat unconventional naming system (in pharmacology).

The first one is phenylethylamine with N-alkyl and beta-methyl substituents.

The second one is phenylethylamine with another benzene ring at the N-atom.
 
lronFist said:
The last two are the same, although the latter uses a somewhat unconventional naming system (in pharmacology).

The first one is phenylethylamine with N-alkyl and beta-methyl substituents.

The second one is phenylethylamine with another benzene ring at the N-atom.
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the first two are pretty much inactive. although the first gives a numbing sensation
 
mmats said:
What does neuron/madchemist think about all this? Isnt he the one that had the initial feeling the product was spiked with amphetamines?
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I was about to ask the same thing. I know he had a meltdown on bb.com over this quite a while back. They banned him and removed his posts, but I guess it was pretty epic.

I would love to hear his thoughts on the recent developments and this whole thing in general.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
the first two are pretty much inactive. although the first gives a numbing sensation
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PA: Any theories as to why someone would (allegedly) spike their PWO supplement with an analogue of methamphetamine as well as N-Benzyl-2-PEA?

I experienced the drug-like feelings/ dirty-stim. feelings as well as the numbing sensation (which I guess is caused by N-Benzyl-2-PEA).
 
What I do not get is why everyone is jumping to defend somebody who has been involved in shady/scandalous issues in the past. Among other things, these are the same people who swore up and down that superdrol was not liver toxic... Add that to the accumulating evidence with the whole craze issue in addition to hundreds of anecdotal reports of people having all kinds of crazy (no pun intended) experiences and side effects that no other non amphetamine ingredient that I am aware of delivers and it should not be too hard to figure out in my opinion.
 
I think people who love the product want to believe it is fine. This happens all the time in the world.
 
I think its hilarious that theres a bunch of bodybuilding methheads running around all of the sudden. DS should come out with a new flavor of craze called "bath salts".
 
I loved OG Craze, tasted like pure chemical ass, but gave us that insane focus we all came to love. I can definitely say that at some point DS definitely altered craze for the worse. I found with OG Craze I could only take a max of two scoops, I would normally take 1.5 scoops, and it would completely knock my socks off, stimmed of my face, I would also have a rather large crash aftermath. With the newer craze I could take 4 scoops and not feel as psyched as the originals 2 scoops. Also I noticed the craze crash basically went away for me with the newer versions. But that's just me.
 
rob112 said:
I think people who love the product want to believe it is fine. This happens all the time in the world.
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Indeed... It takes place in all walks of life and all the time.

I was like that with Craze at first. Then I started to experience more and more nasty sides. I built up a tolerance, which happens rather quickly with amphetamines and stimulants, drug and non-drug alike.

Even at the time I felt it contained something that was drug-like and wasn't on the label, but I buried my head in the sand because I enjoyed the euphoria and insane workouts I got from it. Eventually the increased number of scoops and re-dosing caused too many sides and I pitched a lot of it.
 
Ceredumbellum said:
Indeed... It takes place in all walks of life and all the time.

I was like that with Craze at first. Then I started to experience more and more nasty sides. I built up a tolerance, which happens rather quickly with amphetamines and stimulants, drug and non-drug alike.

Even at the time I felt it contained something that was drug-like and wasn't on the label, but I buried my head in the sand because I enjoyed the euphoria and insane workouts I got from it. Eventually the increased number of scoops and re-dosing caused too many sides and I pitched a lot of it.
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Man that is some weak sauce. Fortunately/unfortunately I never tried the OG craze. I bought a tub and it was just mediocre to me. I was expecting a lot from the hype.
 
Pat, what else would you suggest for a "natural" amphetamine extract since Craze doesn't work for me and I want to have fun, too? Acacia rigidula (supposedly contains amphetamine)?
 
SpicedCider said:
Pat, what else would you suggest for a "natural" amphetamine extract since Craze doesn't work for me and I want to have fun, too? Acacia rigidula (supposedly contains amphetamine)?
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The studies that demonstrated Acacia rigidula to possess amphetamine analogues were undoubtedly methodologically flawed, as Shulgin pointed out.

The phenylethylamine-like compounds in this plant are para-hydroxylated, which removes BBB penetration, and most of any biological significance.
 
Afi140 said:
Actually made me lol. Glad you could grace is with your presence, knowledge, and positive attitude ;)
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while i may agree with your comments regarding my arrogance, i'll have you know sociopaths like myself are often highly intelligent individuals, though we are utterly without empathy and are incapable of experiencing emotions or what most people perceive as love.

i am inclined to disagree with that assessment on the grounds that i once had a boa constrictor named jinxy that i deeply cared for and felt a profound sense of regret when he suffocated in a tragic accident with my neighbor's dog that wouldn't stop barking.
 
Ceredumbellum said:
Weak sauce?
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It's just a way of saying "that is beat." It was in reference to the sides. Basically I was trying to say that sucks you got the side effects. My bad lol
 
lronFist said:
The studies that demonstrated Acacia rigidula to possess amphetamine analogues were undoubtedly methodologically flawed, as Shulgin pointed out.

The phenylethylamine-like compounds in this plant are para-hydroxylated, which removes BBB penetration, and most of any biological significance.
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That sucks. Are there any other plants out there that act as natural amphetamines?
 
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