Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
I would love nothing more but it is not in my best interest to do so
DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action
- Thread starter heavyd12
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I would love nothing more but it is not in my best interest to do so
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
well its not a smoking gun but this is the email that massive joe got. Now u can say that MJ is making all this up because he has an obvoius motive. after all he probably sells a ton of craze and all that money he makes is probably making him feel very guilty so he needs an excuse to trim his bank account
Craze contains - N,α-diethylbenz eneethanamine which falls within Section 314.4(2)(d)(ii) of the Criminal Code Act 1995 (Cth). A NSW Police Forensic Chemist has advise that this chemical is a structural analogue of Methamphetamine. As such Craze powder is held by Customs and seized by the Australian Federal Police.
dmantheman
New member
Athletes are popping up on drug tests after ingesting the supplement directly related to the chemical Australia customs are loosely reporting. That is all the smoking gun you need, this will soon become public.
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
The DS response. Deceptive to say the least
1) No one ever said it contained meth. 2) N,α-diethylbenz eneethanamine was NOT on that list of 50 controlled substances that Craze was screened for (CAhill showed us that screen, remember??)
"The health of the users of our product is an issue we take very seriously. Craze has been extensively tested and does not contain Methamphetamine. We test all raw material at FDA/DEA accredited labs prior to production and test every lot of Craze post production for over 50 controlled substances including amphetamine, methamphetamine, and clandestine compounds in that class. Craze has passed every time and is manufactured in a TGA and NSF Certified for Sport facility. Craze has not been seized."
1) No one ever said it contained meth. 2) N,α-diethylbenz eneethanamine was NOT on that list of 50 controlled substances that Craze was screened for (CAhill showed us that screen, remember??)
"The health of the users of our product is an issue we take very seriously. Craze has been extensively tested and does not contain Methamphetamine. We test all raw material at FDA/DEA accredited labs prior to production and test every lot of Craze post production for over 50 controlled substances including amphetamine, methamphetamine, and clandestine compounds in that class. Craze has passed every time and is manufactured in a TGA and NSF Certified for Sport facility. Craze has not been seized."
southpaw23
Well-known member
Just curious, what athletes specifically took Craze and tested positive? Is it WELL documented anywhere? Or is this a case of, "they" tested positive. Hmm who is they? Well you know...the guy. What guy? You know the guy who was with the other guy? Yeah that guy. Oh now it's all becoming clear.
I'm not saying any of this isn't true, but this is the worst led investigation I have ever seen and I've seen some bad ones on Matlock. 1000 questions are being raised, yet no specific answers on ANYTHING, except..."a youtube video, a chemist...what chemist? You know the guy with the thing. Oh that guy! What athlete tested positive because of Craze? You know the dude, the dude who was with the other dude, yeah that dude.I'm the dude playing the dude disguised as another dude."
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
well the guy second from last on this page tested positive for the stuff allegedly disovered in craze. did he take craze? dunno.
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Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
there are alot of positives for ghrp 6 on that page. i wasnt aware it was screened for
southpaw23
Well-known member
I don't know did he? What I'm seeing is a bunch of "what ifs"....ZERO answers to anything. I'd really love to know because I take it. My personal hunch is this is only happening again for one reason.
Ceredumbellum
Member
And what reason would that be? Because I took and if it didn't contain something illicit then that would be shocking. I'd love to know what naturally occuring, LEGAL ingredient for use in dietary supplements gives somebody the side-effects that Craze gave me (and apparently countless others).
MY personal hunch? Well, I won't delve too deep into it. Let's just say that some people love the feeling so much they're willing to overlook the potential risks or, worse yet, someone insinuating that somebody on this board has an agenda is actually the one with the agenda.
southpaw23
Well-known member
Riiiggggght. Anywhoo let me know when there's another youtube video.
Ceredumbellum
Member
This entire statement is very vague and indeed deceptive. The part that has me scratching my head is what's highlighted. So was it seized or not? Or was it not seized but is going to be anytime?
southpaw23
Well-known member
I like your questions. I have some of my own.
1) This ban in Australia was all over the net for the past "4" months ago. Count them, that's 4 months ago. Why is it only coming up now?
2) Why is a youtube video where a guy says..."a chemist" considered anything but satire?
3) This official letter, would be posted somewhere on the internet, anywhere correct? Where is it in its entirety?
4) Allegedly some athlete tested positive for an ingredient thought to be in Craze. So the best we could come up with was, not a name, but this..."he may have possibly taken Craze."
For months all we've heard is..."more is coming." I admit I love the product. It's a home run period. That's why it's a target and I get that part of it, I really do. But this has gone on for months and you or anyone else can't point to any single item, document that says any of this is true. Now it may be true and as I've stated before, if it is, they should be held accountable. But this is getting silly now, really is. You have a handful of guy who LOVE being wrapped in interwebs drama. All I'm saying is, alert the masses when you have something more than just a youtube video of a guy saying..."a chemist."
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
Ceredumbellum
Member
Cute response, but the fact remains you throw a vague "gotcha!" statement out there and pat yourself on the back. Why not just come out and say what you're thinking?
Everyone is wanting to know what is in this stuff. It's as simple as that bro. I liked Craze for quite a while, too. I was pissed when what I thought at the time was a witch hunt started. But the longer I took it the more I realized it was not impacting me in a positive way.
I really don't know what you were insinuating. But if it was that PA has an agenda in this whole thing then you need to think about it a little deeper. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Prototype and E-Pharm don't have PWO's, do they?
Ceredumbellum
Member
I was drinking the kool-aide so to speak when I first took it. But something was definately not right and I stopped it. Threw what I had left away, which was almost a full tub.
Lets simplify it for those that don't get it: If a sports supplement gets you high, chances are it contains something illegal.
I've had my fill of this crap for the day. Time to go do some gambling and womanizing. Kinda kicking myself now. It could be a real party if only I hadn't thrown that last tub of Craze away! :32:
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
four months? where did you get that from?
and its been discussed for a while. go to the DS craze facebook page
are you seriously denying that there has been a ban in australia??
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
southpaw23
Well-known member
To classify or lump everyone in together is silly. You really think that most intelligent people, IF they find out that something illicit is in the product they won't toss it? I love the product and guess what? I'd toss it in a heartbeat. I'd toss it in the garbage now if I knew there was proof that this product contains said analogue. I'm just asking a very simple question, WHERE IS THE PROOF? And here is the responses to that question...more questions. "Well, maybe, possibly, what can account for the type of feeling/focus you get with Craze, if not something illicit" Okay still open minded, however. Documentation? Nope. A youtube video with a guy who says..."a chemist." Okay still with you. Who is this chemist and where is the full letter? "Ahh I don't know, I think he's the guy with the thing, ya know the guy."
southpaw23
Well-known member
Lol! I like you, you're a smart guy and fun to banter with. But me taking it seriously? C'mon Pat stop it. Lol. This thread was quiet up until? I'm not fixated on it. I'm not writing a blog about it. I'm just a concerned consumer who came in here and asked a simple question, where is the evidence? I respect you, you know that.
southpaw23
Well-known member
Oh my lord. No I'm not denying anything. If you google "australia ban" you'll see that it stretches back as far as January, four months ago. This isn't any kind of new information coming out. It was on other forums for months. If this is an idea of "fun" cool man whatever, I'm not knocking it.
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
thats fine. i honestly wouldnt. If i were taking the product (i never tried it) and I liked it and i didnt feel it was hurting me i would keep taking it. I mean just cuz i suddenly knew what it was giving me that feel doesnt mean that the stuff has changed. I dont see anything regarding this meth analog (other than its in the amphetamine class) that makes me think its gonna really hurt someone acutel
my peeve with this is that i dont like the idea of a competitor cutting corners to steal market share. if i think a competitor might be playing dirty i am gonna find out. its not about safety or concern for consumers with me, its protecting my business interests. That and I just love solving mysteries like this
southpaw23
Well-known member
Fair enough, I get that and I respect your honesty. I would too. I just want to know (being completely honest here) if I've been taking anything illicit. I've never even tried weed in my life! Not once man, now I'm meth head? I could have least started with weed. Story of my life.
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
Ceredumbellum
Member
That and an opportunity to pick your brain is the only reason I joined this board (no I am not nuthugging, you a-holes). I agree this is fun and whatever is going on it's shaping up to be a Sherlock Holmes mystery. There is layer upon layer upon layer of intrigue to this whole thing.
Ok, gambling and women. For real now. Peace! :trink26:
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
concerning the alleged meth analog
illicit as in an illegal drug? no.
might it be illegal someday? yes
testosteronet
Well-known member
So this alleged analogue is in the tubs currently at vendors?
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
who knows since there could be good lots, bad lots, counterfeit lots.
but i can test it and find out ;-)
Ceredumbellum
Member
So it doesn't currently fall under the realm of the Federal Analouge Act?
AdelV
Well-known member
It may be a while, But Im sure federal police tested more than one tub. I doubt they give a **** about anyone on a forum. We'll have to wait til we get more information. You could email Afp, tga and ask questions, claim youre a supplement store owner looking for information. They generally reply 
Docmattic
Well-known member
Ive done that before. I used to make vodka orange with 2 scoops of orange san fierce, two shots of vodka and a little orange juice. It was a fun combination.
Docmattic
Well-known member
Ive done that before. I used to make vodka orange with 2 scoops of orange san fierce, two shots of vodka and a little orange juice. It was a fun combination.
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
that is up to the courts to decide. personally i think it is. however until it is deemed an analog it is still just an uncontrolled chem
u bring up a question though. in such a situation can they declare it an analog and then prosecute its previous sale? or can such prosecutions only happen after the declaration? I am guessing they can prosecute previous sales
Ceredumbellum
Member
Wasn't a big reason for the Federal Analogue Act to deter this (supposed/ alleged) kind of thing? After reading the wiki entry it sure sounds like they could prosecute retroactively, even if it wasn't already listed.
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
thanks
996ttelise
Banned
God knows MC would not play dirty, cut corners or possibly sell banned substances to make a quick buck. The problem is two fold: those of us tested especially WADA and etc. may have need for concern if substance declared illegal and samples eventually pop for it; and certain things are really bad for legal supplement industry such as giving Feds any more reason for tighter regulation and the need to protect public from undisclosed illegal meth analogues.
Ceredumbellum
Member
I hate you so bad.... for putting that wonderful idea in my head. :trink26:
braskibra
Active member
well i got to bring something to the thread cuz im def not bringing any chem knowledge up in here im more of an anatomy musculoskeletal guy
bigflex0
Member
If someone is a WADA tested athlete I would personally tell them to avoid pretty much anything that contains stims sans coffee. WADA is so over the top with their testing that even if the substance in craze is not banned who is to say they won't ban it and come back to your sample at a later date. I feel bad for anyone under WADA I have no love loss for them.
996ttelise
Banned
For sure. I have been pretty selective and used to only take like 1/2 scoop of any pre workout before lifting. I try to be careful. I am also an oddity in that I am very unimportant in the athletic world, but I am still very competitive in my sport at 46 so who knows. If I was pitching big leagues at 46 or winning tour de France and etc. I would be more concerned for sure about coming back at me. I am also getting to the age that I just don't give a crap, but younger guys and college athletes looking to make it need to be very careful. Would suck getting popped for some mislabeled bs by some bs dude looking to make a quick buck. Those guys have way more to lose.
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
Stuff is getting around
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January 2013, Volume 31, Invalid Link Removed, pp 54-58
[h=1]Identification of N-ethyl-α-ethylphenethylamine in crystalline powder seized for suspected drug trafficking: a research chemical or a new designer drug?[/h]
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[h=2]Abstract[/h]A crystalline powder was found in an unclaimed lost article shipped from Vietnam to South Korea, and it was seized by narcotics agents as an item of suspicious trade. The chemical was suspected to be methamphetamine crystals, and was sent to the National Forensic Service for forensic identification. Elucidation of the chemical structure was carried out using gas chromatography–electron impact ionization–mass spectrometry, liquid chromatography–time-of-flight–mass spectrometry, and 1D and 2D nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy. The compound was identified as N-ethyl-α-ethylphenethylamine. Although the narcotic effect of this compound remains unverified, it may be classified as a phenethylamine-based designer drug on the basis of its structure. It appeared that the recipient of this article sought to abuse this chemical in the same way as amphetamines. There is a possibility that this chemical will be widely abused for recreational use in the near future.
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January 2013, Volume 31, Invalid Link Removed, pp 54-58
[h=1]Identification of N-ethyl-α-ethylphenethylamine in crystalline powder seized for suspected drug trafficking: a research chemical or a new designer drug?[/h]
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[h=2]Abstract[/h]A crystalline powder was found in an unclaimed lost article shipped from Vietnam to South Korea, and it was seized by narcotics agents as an item of suspicious trade. The chemical was suspected to be methamphetamine crystals, and was sent to the National Forensic Service for forensic identification. Elucidation of the chemical structure was carried out using gas chromatography–electron impact ionization–mass spectrometry, liquid chromatography–time-of-flight–mass spectrometry, and 1D and 2D nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy. The compound was identified as N-ethyl-α-ethylphenethylamine. Although the narcotic effect of this compound remains unverified, it may be classified as a phenethylamine-based designer drug on the basis of its structure. It appeared that the recipient of this article sought to abuse this chemical in the same way as amphetamines. There is a possibility that this chemical will be widely abused for recreational use in the near future.
SpicedCider
Well-known member
Dang -- now I REALLY wish I wasn't a non-responder to Craze. I'm jealous of you guys who have actually felt something from taking it...
baldymcgee
Member
can't post link, but this got brought up on bb.com and the thread is already gone:
w w w .svt.se/nyheter/regionalt/vastnytt/vanligt-kosttilskott-innehaller-dopningsmedel
w w w .svt.se/nyheter/regionalt/vastnytt/vanligt-kosttilskott-innehaller-dopningsmedel
baldymcgee
Member
Am I correct in assuming that N-etyl-1-fenyl-2-butylamin is the same as N-ethyl-1-phenyl-2-butylamine?
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
Docmattic
Well-known member
For those who need it translated:
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They bring up all the side effects I've felt at one time or another on craze. When i first started taking craze i was anxious as hell after my workout. I also got confused (as outlined in the article) all the time. I couldn't even get basic sentences out because i kept forgetting what i was trying to say mid sentence.
An interesting read.
Patrick Arnold
Featured Author
you had amphetamine paranoia. one reason why i cant touch that sort of stuff anymore. reason why i never tried craze
Docmattic
Well-known member
I didn't get anxious all the time. I got confused regularly though. I just put it down to managing Work, uni, basketball, weights and just a generally busy scheduale. That article reminded me of it. I laughed at the spend several hours at the gym reference in there. My girl went off at me so many times when i said Id be back from the gym at 7 and didnt get back till about 9 or 10. I did like that effect.
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