Article: Should Obesity Be Stigmatized?
- Thread starter The Press
- Start date
TexasGuy
Veteran member
It certainly shouldn't be swept under the politically correct rug. If we are worried about health care costs now give it a generation.
Not to mention "eye candy" is almost an extinct phrase in the general public. Boulevard cruising at the beach just isn't what it used to be, more like a whale watch tour.
Not to mention "eye candy" is almost an extinct phrase in the general public. Boulevard cruising at the beach just isn't what it used to be, more like a whale watch tour.
southpaw23
Well-known member
Shaming people into leading a healthier lifestyle isn't the correct path either.
rabz
Active Member
What's the difference in shaming people into not being a fat, lazy drain on the healthcare system and shamim them into not smoking themselves to death? I hate anti-smoking ads. I hate anti booze ads commercials. That said I don't smoke and do drink but its none of anyone's business whether I do or not and for society to try and say fat is beautiful and okay is absurd when they pound that crap down smokers necks. I'm not the pinnacle of health but I will say the media picking and choosing who gets picked on for what is total bs. If they want to whine about people being fat and truly want to see the health of citizens improve, then a anti fatass campaign would at least make the 5th trip to the buffet weigh a little heavier on the lard asses minds.
southpaw23
Well-known member
It's definitely a matter of national security. I mean fat people should be able to form a human shield in case anything goes down. The fat Avengers.
southpaw23
Well-known member
No. Lol. I agree that it needs to be addressed but I disagree with the approach promoted here.
MANotaur
Well-known member
i dont see the problem with it. everybody has the right to do with their bodies as they seem fit but if theyre gonna ride the dole-wagon and be on govt healthcare, then we the people that are paying for it should be able to stigmatize them in anyway we like.
stigmas arent bad, theyre true. People know that smoking is bad just like they know being fat is bad. You can blame it on genetics or daddy issue or whateverthefuhck you want, but the truth remains the same.
eventually, if its stigmatized and sterotyped, obese people will want to stop being the subject of commercials and being socially taboo and theyll do something about it, much like smokers today.
are there still alot of smokers, sure. is that gonna change? i really dont care. but the point is since its been made a stigma less and less people are smoking because they dont wanna fall under that sterotype. The same thing will befall the fattys
stigmas arent bad, theyre true. People know that smoking is bad just like they know being fat is bad. You can blame it on genetics or daddy issue or whateverthefuhck you want, but the truth remains the same.
eventually, if its stigmatized and sterotyped, obese people will want to stop being the subject of commercials and being socially taboo and theyll do something about it, much like smokers today.
are there still alot of smokers, sure. is that gonna change? i really dont care. but the point is since its been made a stigma less and less people are smoking because they dont wanna fall under that sterotype. The same thing will befall the fattys
southpaw23
Well-known member
We should also stigmatize while we're at it, people who possess limited education. They graduate high school go into low paying jobs, offer very little back in the form of taxes, offer the most complaints, thinks everyone is out to get them and that their victims. These kinds of people aren't offering anything back either except a ton of uninformed opinions. Oh wait, that was offensive.
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
Nice idea. Let's take a growing handful of people who already eat too much, and get them guilt ridden... a trigger for most obese people to eat.
southpaw23
Well-known member
^^^Exactly.
MANotaur
Well-known member
already happening! ever seen jersey shore or buckwild or honeybooboo?? and theres nothing offensive about the truth. its just the truth, like it or not. and it should be more stigmatized than it already is.
and smokers to smoke and junkies to get a fix?? whats your point?
southpaw23
Well-known member
His point is a rather easy one to comprehend, for many people with weight problems, it's an issue of addiction. Now looking at it from that standpoint, addicts have triggers, i.e. trauma etc. Making fun of someone, or shaming them into better eating habits simply does not work. It only serves as a trigger for them to exacerbate the behavior.
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
What are you talking about MAN?
I was a smoker at once, and even with the stigma, i was never guilt ridden into going to smoke.
You are trying to compare apples to refrigerators here.
What you are attempting to equate is physical addiction to an external drug. And comparing it to an emotional addiction to nourishment.
If you play that, might as well go to the batters box with a hockey stick... about as useful.
I was a smoker at once, and even with the stigma, i was never guilt ridden into going to smoke.
You are trying to compare apples to refrigerators here.
What you are attempting to equate is physical addiction to an external drug. And comparing it to an emotional addiction to nourishment.
If you play that, might as well go to the batters box with a hockey stick... about as useful.
MANotaur
Well-known member
lol love the baseball analogy and i see your point,
stigmas and guilt dont work for everyone but it does work for a lot of people. and whether or not its an emotional issue or a physical issue is irrelevant. Theres plenty of junkies that are out there that are junkies cause of daddy issues, as there are plenty of bulemics and anorexics.
Im not saying that its the end all be all solution, but it seems to work to an extent. At the very least it makes people think about and internalize their issues and could provoke them to get help.
another thing is a stigma isnt poking fun of or demonizing, its pointing out consistencies in a given demographic. you can easily equate stigma with stereotype...no body likes those words becuase they can also be interchanged with "truth" 80% of the time.
stigmas can be pointed out without blatant making fun.
southpaw23
Well-known member
"but it does work for a lot of people."....Who does it work for? Lol.
Stereotypes for the most part often hold some truth, but that is not the issue here. The issue here is one of addiction and the triggers involved in that addiction. Shame is a trigger, pain is a trigger, so by those triggers, you'll only end up making the problem worse. Has making fun of drug addicts/shaming them, solved the drug addiction problem?
MANotaur
Well-known member
you might not have but some people are. I know alot of people that are smokers and use it as a coping mechanism, my brother is one of them. If he feels guilty about ANYTHING, he starts to chain smoke.
people are indviduals, and not everybody has the same way of dealing with their issues.
but with issues like smoking and obesity, the health risks involved are always common denominators.
smokers always have to worry about lung cancer, stroke, heart disease and other disease.
the obese and overweight have to worry about renal failure, hepatic failure, heart disease, heart attack, stroke, and a slew of other conditions. it doesnt matter why they eat or why they smoke, the risks are the same
MANotaur
Well-known member
worked for me
worked for jarrod from subway
works for just about every contestant on the biggest loser
seems to have worked for more than half my clients
so yeah...it works
southpaw23
Well-known member
Lol@ Jarrod from Subway :/ A reality show man? really? That's the example you wanna use? They get paid to be on that show,it's an incentive coupled with the fact that no money comes out of their own pockets.
MANotaur
Well-known member
jarrod said it not me,
they dont get paid unless they win something
and then explain me or my clients? to say it doesnt work period is ignorant and you know it! your better than that southpaw cmon
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
You want to attempt to fix a very complex problem with a simple solution of labeling someone.
Where does it exactly end? Considering there is new research everyday showing a strong genetic link for obesity. Do they get stigmatized? Lumped in right along with the person who just cannot put down the fork?
I don't claim to have any answers to this problem, but I do know when making people feel bad just to make them feel bad is a terrible idea.
Where does it exactly end? Considering there is new research everyday showing a strong genetic link for obesity. Do they get stigmatized? Lumped in right along with the person who just cannot put down the fork?
I don't claim to have any answers to this problem, but I do know when making people feel bad just to make them feel bad is a terrible idea.
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
And let's really not get this twisted. The public has already attached a stigma to the obese.
Hasn't exactly resolved our issues has it?
Hasn't exactly resolved our issues has it?
southpaw23
Well-known member
Lol. Your clients come to you after they decide for "themselves." There is difference between being internally motivated versus being exposed to external shame which is a trigger for these individuals. And in regards to these individuals not being paid that is wrong, they are offered free services that normally carry a cost, in exchange for being on the show.
MANotaur
Well-known member
you cant blame genetics on everything! i hate that! just because they store fat easier becuase they lack a deleted section next to a telomere isnt an excuse to be unhealthy. they might not ever be a fitness model but they can still be a healthy weight and live a healthy lifestyle so that argument is out.
and i prefaced some of my original comments by saying this isnt the cure or the fix to obesity, but it most certainly will help.
and who said you have to make them feel bad!! your associating stigmas with making fun and thats not the case, theres also a hypersenstivity problem and a PC problem in this country which is also contributing to the problem. the truth hurts sometimes
southpaw23
Well-known member
What is your definition of "stigma" and how would you go about applying to this segment of the population?
MANotaur
Well-known member
so my clients coming to me saying "i wanna be healthier because im embarrased by my weight and size" or "i feel like a terrible father/mother because im setting a horrible example for my child" or "i need to lose weight because a 3 yearold pointed out that i was fat in burger king the other day" isnt external exposure to shame? it took these external triggers for them to realize they have a problem and to get help.
and a free service doesnt equate to being paid because the contestants are still making a financial sacrafice by leaving their jobs, which they are not paid. so there is an invested interest.
MANotaur
Well-known member
discontent with a person on socially characteristic grounds that are perceived or applied, and serve to distinguish them, from other members of a society because of their traits outward or inward
Erving Goffman was a sociologist that wrote a few books about stigmas and stereotypes and the dangers and advantages asocitated with them. look into them it can be a real insight to things like this
his defination is 'the process by which the reaction of others, spoils normal identity'
he then further explains how theres three distinct types of stigmas which are....
1.Overt or external deformations, such as scars, physical manifestations of anorexia nervosa, leprosy (leprosy stigma), or of a physical disability or social disability, such as obesity.
2.Deviations in personal traits, including mental illness, drug addiction, alcoholism, and criminal background are stigmatized in this way.
3."Tribal stigmas" are traits, imagined or real, of ethnic group, nationality, or of religion that is deemed to be a deviation from the prevailing normative ethnicity, nationality or religion.
Erving Goffman was a sociologist that wrote a few books about stigmas and stereotypes and the dangers and advantages asocitated with them. look into them it can be a real insight to things like this
his defination is 'the process by which the reaction of others, spoils normal identity'
he then further explains how theres three distinct types of stigmas which are....
1.Overt or external deformations, such as scars, physical manifestations of anorexia nervosa, leprosy (leprosy stigma), or of a physical disability or social disability, such as obesity.
2.Deviations in personal traits, including mental illness, drug addiction, alcoholism, and criminal background are stigmatized in this way.
3."Tribal stigmas" are traits, imagined or real, of ethnic group, nationality, or of religion that is deemed to be a deviation from the prevailing normative ethnicity, nationality or religion.
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
Absolutely that argument is not out.
People here tell the skinny hardgainer to juice on up to get past their genetics... WTF.. cant have it both ways.
What do you think stigma's are? No one is hypersensitive, since grade school, who do you think got picked on the most and called names? How much so called truth has helped our youth? Personally I kinda get tired of the "Fat Ass" narrative and offer help to the people that want it. You aren't gonna shame someone into putting down the fork.
southpaw23
Well-known member
Wrong, do some research. The contestants are given a weekly stipend up to 900 a week, in addition to covering food costs. All airplane tickets, hotel accommodations, etc., for the contestants and potential cast members are taken care of by NBC, and during the casting process itself there was a $50 per diem to cover food costs. In addition to providing free training = all of which have monetary value.
southpaw23
Well-known member
Look, I respect your posts. But I have a difficult time understanding them. You gotta learn how to string together a proper sentence and correct the numerous grammar and spelling errors in your posts. (I hope you get what I just did)
MANotaur
Well-known member
people use genetics as crutch far too often and its irritating. im not one that advocates juicing to surpass genetic plateaus. i advocate juice for those who wanna juice.
and i do offer help to those who need it! i dont go around calling people fatass or making fun but the truth is out there. fat people arent always aware of the dangers associated with obesity, and if it takes a PR campaign to make somepeople have a "come to jesus" moment about their health by all means lets give it a shot.
MANotaur
Well-known member
still at the risk of losing their jobs, most employers frown upon missing months of work at a time on a voluntary basis.
and I know that I'm absolutely horrendous at spelling and typing. My mind works way faster than both my fingers and my mouth and it gets me in a pickle. my dissertation has been a nightmare and thank heaven for spell check and english undergrads.
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
MANotaur
Well-known member
talkin to me about apples and oranges? cleft lip and obesisty? really? so your advocating that a genetic disposition is the same as a genetic deformity or mutation? really?? REALLY!!??
so because i have a genetic disposition to prostate cancer because im a carrier for the gene means i should just roll over and accept the fact that im gonna die cause my grandpa had it and my dads got BPH? gimme a break
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
Hello Pot.
I only utilized such an analogy because you felt the need to do so in the last debate thread. Using an extreme example.
Your inability to view the entire issue though is a bit reprehensible. You are putting a band aid over a bullet wound. To say the increasing science coming to light on genetic mutations has no bearing, and to just get over it, is ignorant to the issue at hand. We are just starting to scratch the genetic surface on all research too.
Ironically I wasn't even using that as a main arguement topic... I just asked if they are lumped in the same group. You went on a crusade about using it as a crutch. You never answered me though... do you think people like this want to be fat? They just say, I'm genetically screwed, so might as well keep going?
A complex problem has no easy solution.
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
Two different things. Cleft lip and palate are separate, but often are seen together, but not always.
southpaw23
Well-known member
Which is astonishing because you write like a drunk person talks at 3 in the morning. I kid!
MANotaur
Well-known member
i think theres very few people in the world that want to be fat, but unfortunately great scientific discoveries and breakthroughs far too often get abused and misused. i do see the entire issue at hand and i understand that there are way to many issues to just single out one, but the point is that something, somewhere, has to be done in order for people to make the decision to get the help they need themselves
and yeah i have a habbit of doing that lol just ask southpaw.
but your absolutely right it is a complex problem and it doesnt have an easy answer, but we have to start somewhere. i just feel that sugar coating isnt the way to do it. granted that stigmas isnt the best, ive just found that with my personality and my experiences, its a least a good way to get the ball rolling.
MANotaur
Well-known member
Which is astonishing because you write like a drunk person talks at 3 in the morning. I kid!
i amaze myself at times too....i cant tell you how many times i go through and read something ive written and say..."the hell did i just say?"
no need to kid...its the truth! (see what i did there
)southpaw23
Well-known member
I go to the gym, but I don't love it and that includes sparring, lifting, conditioning etc. I hate it, nobody wants to get up in the morning and do that stuff. Of course I do it anyway. I'd take a pill if one existed where I'd no longer need to do those things. Not everyone wants to go to the gym and refer to everyone as "bro" for an hour and a half.
TexasGuy
Veteran member
Well some of these examples have gotten a little out of hand. We can't compare tobacco addiction to obesity but we can compare obesity to a cleft lip?
With very few exceptions, obesity is a "disease" of choice.
All of a sudden, within the last decade or so, something like 35% of the US population wound up with some kind of obese gene? Not hardly. Sure there are genetic issues but they are certainly limited in scope. And if you consider overweight and not just the obese you are looking at another 33%. Together, obese and simply overweight people comprise roughly 66% of the whole population of the United States over the age of 20.
Outright bullying may not be the way to go but coddling sure as **** isn't either.
I, for one, would like to see better education relating to health. I think physical education and nutritional classes should be mandatory in our educational system. I agree with laws forcing restaurants to show nutritional info. Unfortunately, most people don't even know what the hell they are reading.
I think doctors should refer overweight and especially obese patients to physical therapy clinics who should broaden their scope to bringing people in to healthy ranges. Exercise should be prescribed for cholesterol, tight muscles et cetera instead of pharma solutions.
I do believe a media campaign to create awareness would be helpful, not only to spread information and create an interest in health but as personal, periodic reminders too.
Considering cigarettes, these methods do work. Slapping a surgeon generals warning on a box and then using the media to push the message of how dangerous tobacco can be certainly enlightened a generation of people who smoke significantly less than previous generations, although tobacco is still legal and readily available for consumption. We are simply more educated about its downside nowdays and usage is down significantly.
If people shun smokers in public places (I do and am happy for smoking bans) it only helps to reinforce the message, although the campaign against smoking isn't based on "shunning" people at all, this aspect is simply human nature.
If doughboy is ostracized and decides to take charge of his health because of it, good. How many wimpy kids picked up a dumbell or started playing sports to "show them"? A lot. And if he decides to ingore information and helpful tools to be healthy, screw him. We all make the beds we sleep in and personal responsibility is unfortunately a rare commodity these days, probably an underlying factor but a different topic altogether.
He and his fat wife create sensory pollution for me in public. It's disgusting, unsettling and smelly, not unlike a garbage dump. Not only that but I fly, a lot. I can't tell you how many fat people have hung over in my seat space on a plane and then hit that ****ing stewardess light for cokes and peanuts the whole god damned flight. They definitely owe me some "rent" on my flight space. And when they eat, they are noisier than my dogs, but I digress.
Negative reinforcement does have it's place when positive coaxing obviously isn't working.
With very few exceptions, obesity is a "disease" of choice.
All of a sudden, within the last decade or so, something like 35% of the US population wound up with some kind of obese gene? Not hardly. Sure there are genetic issues but they are certainly limited in scope. And if you consider overweight and not just the obese you are looking at another 33%. Together, obese and simply overweight people comprise roughly 66% of the whole population of the United States over the age of 20.
Outright bullying may not be the way to go but coddling sure as **** isn't either.
I, for one, would like to see better education relating to health. I think physical education and nutritional classes should be mandatory in our educational system. I agree with laws forcing restaurants to show nutritional info. Unfortunately, most people don't even know what the hell they are reading.
I think doctors should refer overweight and especially obese patients to physical therapy clinics who should broaden their scope to bringing people in to healthy ranges. Exercise should be prescribed for cholesterol, tight muscles et cetera instead of pharma solutions.
I do believe a media campaign to create awareness would be helpful, not only to spread information and create an interest in health but as personal, periodic reminders too.
Considering cigarettes, these methods do work. Slapping a surgeon generals warning on a box and then using the media to push the message of how dangerous tobacco can be certainly enlightened a generation of people who smoke significantly less than previous generations, although tobacco is still legal and readily available for consumption. We are simply more educated about its downside nowdays and usage is down significantly.
If people shun smokers in public places (I do and am happy for smoking bans) it only helps to reinforce the message, although the campaign against smoking isn't based on "shunning" people at all, this aspect is simply human nature.
If doughboy is ostracized and decides to take charge of his health because of it, good. How many wimpy kids picked up a dumbell or started playing sports to "show them"? A lot. And if he decides to ingore information and helpful tools to be healthy, screw him. We all make the beds we sleep in and personal responsibility is unfortunately a rare commodity these days, probably an underlying factor but a different topic altogether.
He and his fat wife create sensory pollution for me in public. It's disgusting, unsettling and smelly, not unlike a garbage dump. Not only that but I fly, a lot. I can't tell you how many fat people have hung over in my seat space on a plane and then hit that ****ing stewardess light for cokes and peanuts the whole god damned flight. They definitely owe me some "rent" on my flight space. And when they eat, they are noisier than my dogs, but I digress.
Negative reinforcement does have it's place when positive coaxing obviously isn't working.
MANotaur
Well-known member
used to be the thought, just recently (within the past year) theyve found that they are always together its just that one trait may not be as expressed to the degree as others. so with that theyve ruled deemed the proper term "cleft palate" as thats what the brains behind the discovery felt appropriate.
unless its changed again you might be more up to date than me
TexasGuy
Veteran member
I love working out and don't call anyone a bro, unless I'm being sarcastic.
I find inherent pleasure in setting and accomplishing goals and the gym is one place I can manifest this pleasure, along with self improvement.
If I'm feeling stressed, a heavy leg day or even a long run is like a drug, mentally and physically considering hormonal releases.
Working out in the morning, I feel more energetic, upbeat and ready to take on the world. Sometimes I need to exercise the willpower you mention but not on a regular basis.
I would take a pill too to be sure I cover all my bases, but it would never replace genuine achievement for me.
I feel like you are saying fat asses are weak minded, unmotivated individuals who happen to lack willpower to boot, which is probably true.
I don't know how to fix that, not without some kind of exterior motivation since the interior is obviously whacked. Generally the lazy and unmotivated need a kick in the ass as opposed to a carrot (cupcake) on a stick too, because they are lazy and unmotivated to chase that cupcake.
Make their couch uncomfortable though and they will move.
MANotaur
Well-known member
texas...before we get started i have to preface your entry with "eat ****"
and also...LADIES AND GENTLEMAN! TEXAS IS HERE!! did you bring GW along?
i have to agree with you though that ignorance isnt an excuse and kids do need to be better educated about the issues at hand as well as adults.
southpaw23
Well-known member
There was an overweight 16 year old kid who'd come into my gym. He would workout in the corner and I'd hear people make snide remarks about him, mind you he was doing something. The act of getting up and walking into a gym when you're obese is a sign of strength. Rather than making fun of the kid, which would have led him to go home and feel worse about himself, feel stressed and succumb to triggers, end up making poor choices, I worked out with him. I dragged him to play sports and put him on my team, against the wishes of everyone else on the team. Lol. At the end of 3 months he dropped a substantial amount of weight, had more self confidence and gained a new friend. He's a good kid, who deserved help not someone's pity or shame.
southpaw23
Well-known member
And that's great. I find inherent pleasure in reading, going to museums and traveling. Lifting things up and putting them down just happens to fall in there somewhere. It's not like we're curing cancer over here, you know what I mean. Perspective.
MANotaur
Well-known member
^^
this is how its done! and you are applauded for it!
your a good man! its a shame you have to lose all of our arguments
