What are your Top 3 must have supplements

jimbuick said:
I would like human studies on most of the supplements in this industry. Does not having them make them worthless when anecdotal evidence says otherwise? I say no but if that's how you feel then DAA and creatine mono is probably all you wanna buy bro.
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Contrary to common thinking many natural compounds do indeed have studies backing them. In fact the actives in Prime have studies backing them for certain conditions but not for what you will be using it for, unless you have issues with constipation.
 
thills said:
Contrary to common thinking many natural compounds do indeed have studies backing them. In fact the actives in Prime have studies backing them for certain conditions but not for what you will be using it for, unless you have issues with constipation.
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Most are in vivo or in vitro or for the treating of diseases. Very few are on the populations that would use them for athletic performance and even fewer are for the purposes they are sold for in an athletic population.
 
jimbuick said:
Most are in vivo or in vitro or for the treating of diseases. Very few are on the populations that would use them for athletic performance and even fewer are for the purposes they are sold for in an athletic population.
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Not true their are tons of studies of test boosting compounds, non-waisting "muscle sparing", energy/strength, the list goes on.
 
thills said:
Not true their are tons of studies of test boosting compounds, non-waisting "muscle sparing", energy/strength, the list goes on.
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In athletic populations in an age group of 18-28 (most likely to use) with an emphasis on athletic performance?

Please link them. I'm always willing to learn more.
 
jimbuick said:
In athletic populations in an age group of 18-28 (most likely to use) with an emphasis on athletic performance?

Please link them. I'm always willing to learn more.
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You seem like an industrious young man, rather than me "spoon feeding" you the info. do the research on your own, it may lead to even more questions and that is always a good thing. Question what is doled out to you as true and you may be surprised what you uncover :)
 
thills said:
You seem like an industrious young man, rather than me "spoon feeding" you the info. do the research on your own, it may lead to even more questions and that is always a good thing. Question what is doled out to you as true and you may be surprised what you uncover :)
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How about James shares an article with you right here, and you answer back with another one...so on and so forth :). I think the community and James would like that very much, seeing how you both are industrious and educated males.
 
thills said:
You seem like an industrious young man, rather than me "spoon feeding" you the info. do the research on your own, it may lead to even more questions and that is always a good thing. Question what is doled out to you as true and you may be surprised what you uncover :)
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For those with poor reading comprehension this means, and I quote "I don't have any and am talking right out of my @sshole."
 
Celorza said:
How about James shares an article with you right here, and you answer back with another one...so on and so forth :). I think the community and James would like that very much, seeing how you both are industrious and educated males.
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Kingjames is in here? I haven't seen him anywhere......
 
My must haves

Fish oil
Multi
Pre-workout (stim and stim-free)

Everything else I buy is pointless but I like shiny labels and crazy claims :)
 
jimbuick said:
Kingjames is in here? I haven't seen him anywhere......
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Sorry Jimbo , I thought you would preferred being address by a normal name and not a nickname of it...
 
Celorza said:
Sorry Jimbo , I thought you would preferred being address by a normal name and not a nickname of it...
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Meh very few people call me James. My wife and mother are about it, to everyone else I'm Jim.
 
jimbuick said:
For those with poor reading comprehension this means, and I quote "I don't have any and am talking right out of my @sshole."
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Depends on what both of you are looking for....the ingredients in specifically PRIME or just natural herbs that are supposed to be beneficial to Test production?

I never liked prime, no studies....tribulus (any extract any kind) for the most part has let me down....cool libido, nothing else.
 
theotherone55 said:
Depends on what both of you are looking for....the ingredients in specifically PRIME or just natural herbs that are supposed to be beneficial to Test production?

I never liked prime, no studies....tribulus (any extract any kind) for the most part has let me down....cool libido, nothing else.
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Have you used Prime?
 
jimbuick said:
For those with poor reading comprehension this means, and I quote "I don't have any and am talking right out of my @sshole."
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no good deed goes unpunished. You can lead the horse to water but don't be surprised when instead of drinking he tries to eat the sugar in your pocket and takes a slice of skin as well as ruining your shirt
 
thills said:
no good deed goes unpunished. You can lead the horse to water but don't be surprised when instead of drinking he tries to eat the sugar in your pocket and takes a slice of skin as well as ruining your shirt
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Lol at "good deed". I stay pretty in the loop with this lifestyle. If you have studies I havent seen then please enlighten me of them.

If you don't, then dont act as if you do. Simple enough.

In fact here's a good example of what you are doing:

You are trying to prove that leprechauns exist and say you have proof that they do. Someone asks you to show them the proof and you reply with "I worked hard to get this evidence find some on your own."

Very good way to prove a point.
 
actionhero said:
I consider whey a food group more than a supplement.
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I agree with you. It does supplement a diet, but I consider anything with a caloric intake to be food, regardless of form (not saying whey replaces lean meat though)
 
jimbuick said:
Lol at "good deed". I stay pretty in the loop with this lifestyle. If you have studies I havent seen then please enlighten me of them.

If you don't, then dont act as if you do. Simple enough.

In fact here's a good example of what you are doing:

You are trying to prove that leprechauns exist and say you have proof that they do. Someone asks you to show them the proof and you reply with "I worked hard to get this evidence find some on your own."

Very good way to prove a point.
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Just one out of hundreds. If you did any digging at all you would realize you are way off. I would link but you must have 150 post, so for now I am going to give this written out to hopefully open your mind a little.

.ergo-log.com/shilajit--fertility-testosterone.
 
thills said:
Just one out of hundreds. If you did any digging at all you would realize you are way off. I would link but you must have 150 post, so for now I am going to give this written out to hopefully open your mind a little.

.ergo-log.com/shilajit--fertility-testosterone.
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"Infertile men ages 30-45"

Also not sure what shilajit has to do with anything at all....

It isn't in prime and I was under the impression you had some groundbreaking studies on the ingredients in prime.

Also that is not a study. That is a website trying to sell product. As it turns out the full text could hold entirely different information than just the bits that are helpful to the seller.
 
Jstrong20 said:
Im actually about to pick up some creatinol op today. What dose are you takeing and when? How long before you felt results?
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2g pre workout on workout days, felt it in the first week haha.
 
jimbuick said:
"Infertile men ages 30-45"

Also not sure what shilajit has to do with anything at all....

It isn't in prime and I was under the impression you had some groundbreaking studies on the ingredients in prime.

Also that is not a study. That is a website trying to sell product. As it turns out the full text could hold entirely different information than just the bits that are helpful to the seller.
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Just because a site uses a study to sell the product does not mean it is not a valid study. The full text coincides with the way it is being used in this instance

Shilajit has proven to raise t level in multiple studies, and I used that simply as one example for you.

As to Prime, I do not know why you would be under that impression. If I had groundbreaking studies on the ingredients in Prime I would not have disagreed with you about the lack of evidence supporting it, which in turn charged you into informing me that the only worth while supplements with studies on them are Creatine and DAA.

I replied that this was not so and I stand by that.
 
For those of you that actually believe half of these hyped products actually work to raise test, why not do a before and after run with labs to see if it actually worked. My bet would be that 95% would see nothing or the most minimal gains.

We know that time proven basics like creatine, citrulline, and beta alanine work, but all these test products? haha
 
thills said:
Just because a site uses a study to sell the product does not mean it is not a valid study. The full text coincides with the way it is being used in this instance

Shilajit has proven to raise t level in multiple studies, and I used that simply as one example for you.

As to Prime, I do not know why you would be under that impression. If I had groundbreaking studies on the ingredients in Prime I would not have disagreed with you about the lack of evidence supporting it, which in turn charged you into informing me that the only worth while supplements with studies on them are Creatine and DAA.

I replied that this was not so and I stand by that.
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I didn't say the study was no good because a sales site is using it. I pointed out that the link you provided was not to any study and that the full text could be very different.

Also note my comments about studies in young, active males in relation to the goals of bodybuilding and your rebuttal was a study on "infertile men ages 30-45."

How does that relate to bodybuilders or athletes for any sort of performance enhancement?

Thus proving my point that the majority of studies on supplement ingredients is not necessarily applicable to the majority of people that buy them as dietary supplements on this forum.
 
jimbuick said:
I didn't say the study was no good because a sales site is using it. I pointed out that the link you provided was not to any study and that the full text could be very different.

Also note my comments about studies in young, active males in relation to the goals of bodybuilding and your rebuttal was a study on "infertile men ages 30-45."

How does that relate to bodybuilders or athletes for any sort of performance enhancement?

Thus proving my point that the majority of studies on supplement ingredients is not necessarily applicable to the majority of people that buy them as dietary supplements on this forum.
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Please don't but words in my mouth. You were trying to prove a point to me about the "majority of studies"? That was never under contention in our discussion, of course this is the case. There are however many studies that document effectiveness for natural compounds that can and do translate to help in athletic performance.
Are they going to create a steroid like effect, no but that is not what I thought we were discussing.
Sense you seem to be so focused on this one study I will dole out another to you.
In a placebo-controlled study, published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, a statistically significant increase in strength and arm circumference was achieved with an extract of Eurycoma longifolia. A 2008 study concluded that Eurycoma longifolia is capable of suppressing estrogens which are potent inhibitors of testosterone production.
Thus your thinking that Creatine and DAA are the only natural compounds that have studies behind them is very far from the truth.
 
I still don't get why you guys continue to slap fight over "studies" and the marketing page for the supplement. The best and only way to know if it actually works is to get real life numbers for yourself. Everyone knows that herbals affect everyone differently, so if 10 guys had success, it doesn't mean it is going to do jack for you.
 
1. I always run either a test booster i.e. t911/ Form-x or a prohormone like PH19/M1d Black. I gotta keep that test high if I wanna grow!

2. Protein is the building block of muscle so I'm always using a protein supp and amino supp... lipotropic and Bc-EAA

3.creatine. It is one of the most scientifically studied supplements for increasing athletic performance so I make sure to use it pre and post training. LG Sciences Epic and Postal offer plenty of creatine right during the times that its most beneficial.
 
jimbuick said:
Most are in vivo or in vitro or for the treating of diseases. Very few are on the populations that would use them for athletic performance and even fewer are for the purposes they are sold for in an athletic population.
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thills said:
Not true their are tons of studies of test boosting compounds, non-waisting "muscle sparing", energy/strength, the list goes on.
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jimbuick said:
In athletic populations in an age group of 18-28 (most likely to use) with an emphasis on athletic performance?

Please link them. I'm always willing to learn more.
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Never under contention huh?

thills said:
Please don't but words in my mouth. You were trying to prove a point to me about the "majority of studies"? That was never under contention in our discussion, of course this is the case. There are however many studies that document effectiveness for natural compounds that can and do translate to help in athletic performance.
Are they going to create a steroid like effect, no but that is not what I thought we were discussing.
Sense you seem to be so focused on this one study I will dole out another to you.
In a placebo-controlled study, published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, a statistically significant increase in strength and arm circumference was achieved with an extract of Eurycoma longifolia. A 2008 study concluded that Eurycoma longifolia is capable of suppressing estrogens which are potent inhibitors of testosterone production.
Thus your thinking that Creatine and DAA are the only natural compounds that have studies behind them is very far from the truth.
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I think you should leave now, before you make yourself look stupider than you are.
 
No the statement was not true in the sense that there are indeed many studies that are APPLICABLE to athletes. This does not mean that they are designed specifically with athletes in mind. What you fail to see is that as an athlete or bodybuilder you may benefit form a wide range of compounds depending on your situation, the majority of which would help the non-athlete as well.
 
BigMikeC said:
1. I always run either a test booster i.e. t911/ Form-x or a prohormone like PH19/M1d Black. I gotta keep that test high if I wanna grow!

2. Protein is the building block of muscle so I'm always using a protein supp and amino supp... lipotropic and Bc-EAA

3.creatine. It is one of the most scientifically studied supplements for increasing athletic performance so I make sure to use it pre and post training. LG Sciences Epic and Postal offer plenty of creatine right during the times that its most beneficial.
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Still getting an insider LG Sciences deal? I want in.
 
thills said:
No the statement was not true in the sense that their are indeed many studies that are APPLICABLE to athletes. This does not mean that they are designed specifically with athletes in mind. What you fail to see is that as an athlete or bodybuilder you may benefit form a wide range of compounds depending on your situation, the majority of which would help the non-athlete as well.
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A study on 40 year old, infertile, inactive males is not really applicable to most athletes.

Many of these studies don't take into account the hormonal response to proper diet and exercise so the rise seen in the average, older man may not be present in a younger athlete.
 
jimbuick said:
man may not be present in a younger athlete.
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But then again they may in potent extract or high doeses. Shilajit which is in Bioforge by the way is a great natural supplement which I have also taken alone to great results, "and no I am neither 40 or inactive, & certainly not infertile." My original point to you about the Prime is that I could not find any studies that indicate any of the ingredients in it to be helpful in elderly or animals. I admit I did not spend more than ten minutes researching it, so I am not saying they are not there.
When I buy a product I research each single ingredient first and 6 times out of 10 you will find at least some kind of study supporting, at least to some extent what the product claims to do.
 
thills said:
But then again they may in potent extract or high doeses. Shilajit which is in Bioforge by the way is a great natural supplement which I have also taken alone to great results. My original point to you about the Prime is that I could not find any studies that indicate any of the ingredients in it to be helpful in elderly or animals. I admit I did not spend more than ten minutes researching it, so I am not saying they are not there.
When I buy a product I research each single ingredient first and 6 times out of 10 you will find at least some kind of study supporting, at least to some extent what the product claims to do.
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I am not arguing the fact that there are studies. I am arguing the belief that nothing without studies works.

The main ingredient in Anabeta has been shown to increase testosterone, the study was done after the release of Anabeta. By your reasoning Anabeta would have been worthless and ineffective, even though anecdotal evidence showed otherwise, not until the study was published does the product work.
 
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