LTL has fallen to the darkside!

LiveToLift said:
FU!!!!! Good to have you!


I'm listening....
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Ok,you caught me,I'm probably on here more than you,lol!Great thread going here man,I got a lot to catch up on!
 
MrKleen73 said:
Was a damn good lift for sure 550 is 550 you got it up from the floor just didn't start from the floor. It is a little different due to the reflex but doesn't mean you can't do it directly from the floor.
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Thanks Kleen! I'm gunna work on it with heavy as soon as I get through my pct. Gunna get me some chalk and get it haha
 
Your favourite astrophysicist is checking in.
 
bdcc said:
Your favourite astrophysicist is checking in.
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Don't lie. I looked up all of your personal information and you're a fluffer in the porn industry. But you do live in a 25000 square foot 15th century castle on the south end of Manchester and own two spaniels named Fish and Chips.
 
Almost 19lbs in 21 days bro! That's Focking awesome! Nice work on those bent over rows too! Beast mode = ON 8)
 
bdcc said:
Your favourite astrophysicist is checking in.
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Such an ass...
cswalczakny said:
Don't lie. I looked up all of your personal information and you're a fluffer in the porn industry. But you do live in a 25000 square foot 15th century castle on the south end of Manchester and own two spaniels named Fish and Chips.
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His info wasn't hard to come across..
Lukef2000 said:
Almost 19lbs in 21 days bro! That's Focking awesome! Nice work on those bent over rows too! Beast mode = ON 8)
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Definitely feeling jacked! Thanks dude!
 
cswalczakny said:
Don't lie. I looked up all of your personal information and you're a fluffer in the porn industry. But you do live in a 25000 square foot 15th century castle on the south end of Manchester and own two spaniels named Fish and Chips.
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What is funny about this is Jeff made a joke about me being in the porn industry. Either that is coincidental or I am giving off a really bad vibe lol.

LiveToLift said:
Such an ass...
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And there was me thinking we had reconciled!
 
bdcc said:
What is funny about this is Jeff made a joke about me being in the porn industry. Either that is coincidental or I am giving off a really bad vibe lol.
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Lol I definitely didn't know that. Must be the vibe!!
 
Day 22

Pinned 300mg Test E
Dosed 40mg dbol
Dosed 25 aromasin

Day off from the gym. Rest day today, did get the pin done when I got home from work. Pinned left quad for the first time and it was very tricky for me. Being it was a new location and not very easy for me to get to properly I had a tough time. Nerves got to me for sure and it took a few minutes to finally take the stab. I started to get a bit of pain when I got down to that last half inch of the needle again and this being a new location tells me it obviously wasn't scar tissue. Hit down 1 1/4 and pushed out the test. No blood at all and no pain immediately after injection. I did start to notice some PIP about 20 minutes post injection but hoping I can sleep it off.

As you can see I brought down the dbol dose and upped the aromasin. Sadly it is because I'm starting to notice some gyno symptoms. Nips are extremely tender and there is very slight bruising to the side of the nip. Hard to tell if there is a lump but if there is its very small. The biggest pain in the ass with it is that when my shirt rubs it almost feels like rug burn. Started to notice it yesterday and it wasn't nearly as bad late in the day today after dosing two days of 25 aromasin and not mega dosing the dbol. If it continues dbol will be cut out completely in the next day or two. Any other suggestions are welcome, I have been nearly side immune on every run I've done to date so this hit pretty hard. Sad day... :whiner:
 
LiveToLift said:
Day 22

Pinned 300mg Test E
Dosed 40mg dbol
Dosed 25 aromasin

Day off from the gym. Rest day today, did get the pin done when I got home from work. Pinned left quad for the first time and it was very tricky for me. Being it was a new location and not very easy for me to get to properly I had a tough time. Nerves got to me for sure and it took a few minutes to finally take the stab. I started to get a bit of pain when I got down to that last half inch of the needle again and this being a new location tells me it obviously wasn't scar tissue. Hit down 1 1/4 and pushed out the test. No blood at all and no pain immediately after injection. I did start to notice some PIP about 20 minutes post injection but hoping I can sleep it off.

As you can see I brought down the dbol dose and upped the aromasin. Sadly it is because I'm starting to notice some gyno symptoms. Nips are extremely tender and there is very slight bruising to the side of the nip. Hard to tell if there is a lump but if there is its very small. The biggest pain in the ass with it is that when my shirt rubs it almost feels like rug burn. Started to notice it yesterday and it wasn't nearly as bad late in the day today after dosing two days of 25 aromasin and not mega dosing the dbol. If it continues dbol will be cut out completely in the next day or two. Any other suggestions are welcome, I have been nearly side immune on every run I've done to date so this hit pretty hard. Sad day... :whiner:
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what's your dosing sched for aromasin now?
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Imo take 40mg nolva today, 20 tomorrow, 10/day for the remainder. This will halt it for most people.
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Even if it already seems to be going away? Will this kill all gains that I will get from here out? Nervous to pull the trigger on the nolva. Thanks for the help Frank!
 
No it will not kill gains. I personally almost always run 10/mg right from day 1 as I'm extremely sensitive to gyno. I'd rather run that and keep ai use lower.

If you are confident its subsiding then you can hold off but you want to be certain.

Nolva is much more effective than asin for combating gyno.
 
Your almost done with the dbol aren't you? IMO I would just drop the dbol. Or up your AI (which you already have) and just watch it. If it gets worse start the Nolva. I wouldn't super dose it or taper it. I believe the saturation dose is 20 mgs. for nolva. So 20 mgs for a few days should be fine. Just my opinion though.
 
Airborne42 said:
Will it halt or eliminate?
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I mean once tissue is formed nothing save for surgery will fix that, but nolva will cease progression and remove all sides.
Danb2285 said:
Your almost done with the dbol aren't you? IMO I would just drop the dbol. Or up your AI (which you already have) and just watch it. If it gets worse start the Nolva. I wouldn't super dose it or taper it. I believe the saturation dose is 20 mgs. for nolva. So 20 mgs for a few days should be fine. Just my opinion though.
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It has an extremely long half life. In my experience a couple days at a higher dose will get the desired result faster(consider it a loading dose) . 10mg is plenty for gyno control.

I'd definitely introduce nolva before upping the ai.

Nolva gets a bad rap on these forums but it's super effective. People are still perpetuating brolore in regards to nolva especially when a 19-nor is involved.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
No it will not kill gains. I personally almost always run 10/mg right from day 1 as I'm extremely sensitive to gyno. I'd rather run that and keep ai use lower.

If you are confident its subsiding then you can hold off but you want to be certain.

Nolva is much more effective than asin for combating gyno.
Click to expand...

Airborne42 said:
Will it halt or eliminate?
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Danb2285 said:
Your almost done with the dbol aren't you? IMO I would just drop the dbol. Or up your AI (which you already have) and just watch it. If it gets worse start the Nolva. I wouldn't super dose it or taper it. I believe the saturation dose is 20 mgs. for nolva. So 20 mgs for a few days should be fine. Just my opinion though.
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Thats why worries me as well AB.

Thank you frank and Dan for the help I will see how it feels when I wake up. If its still bad Nolva will be started. My little frame with titties would be ridiculous!!
 
Frank Reynolds said:
No it will not kill gains. I personally almost always run 10/mg right from day 1 as I'm extremely sensitive to gyno. I'd rather run that and keep ai use lower.

If you are confident its subsiding then you can hold off but you want to be certain.

Nolva is much more effective than asin for combating gyno.
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I'm sorry Frank, but your avi is making me hungry. Those look flippin delicious.

Good info here btw. lol
 
LiveToLift said:
Thats why worries me as well AB.

Thank you frank and Dan for the help I will see how it feels when I wake up. If its still bad Nolva will be started. My little frame with titties would be hot though!!
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That's kinda weird, but to each their own I guess.
 
LiveToLift said:
Thats why worries me as well AB.

Thank you frank and Dan for the help I will see how it feels when I wake up. If its still bad Nolva will be started. My little frame with titties would be ridiculous!!
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Little frame with boobies? Sounds like you should upload a self-portrait to the "Ideal Woman" thread lol!
 
cswalczakny said:
That's kinda weird, but to each their own I guess.
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I see what you did there... Very clever...
 
Frank Reynolds said:
I mean once tissue is formed nothing save for surgery will fix that, but nolva will cease progression and remove all sides.

It has an extremely long half life. In my experience a couple days at a higher dose will get the desired result faster(consider it a loading dose) . 10mg is plenty for gyno control.

I'd definitely introduce nolva before upping the ai.

Nolva gets a bad rap on these forums but it's super effective. People are still perpetuating brolore in regards to nolva especially when a 19-nor is involved.
Click to expand...

If there's no lump isn't Nolva a little overkill just for sensitive nips? And also why would you rather use Nolva than 25mgs aro? Not arguing or saying your wrong because your probably right. Just curious
 
Danb2285 said:
If there's no lump isn't Nolva a little overkill just for sensitive nips? And also why would you rather use Nolva than 25mgs aro? Not arguing or saying your wrong because your probably right. Just curious
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I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. It is a matter of opinion, and which you believe to be the best course of action. I can only speak based on my personal experience(on myself and with others). I have tried various methods, and this is what I find works best.

To the first question. No, because it can quickly progress from itchy/sore nips to full blown gyno. Why wait until that happens? I would rather be proactive. It is weird that people have this stigma with nolva but have no problems running AI's or dopamine agonist's.

As for the second question, because Nolva is very selective to breast tissue, and wont crush circulating estrogen. IMO you don't want to drive estrogen too low. To be fair asin is my favorite AI, but I still try and run the least amount of an AI as possible. He is already running 25mg/day.

There has been some great discussion on this topic by Seth Roberts back in the day. Since then I have followed this train of thought and recommended it to others with tons of success.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. It is a matter of opinion, and which you believe to be the best course of action. I can only speak based on my personal experience. I have tried various methods, and this is what I find works best.

To the first question. No, because it can quickly progress from itchy/sore nips to full blown gyno. Why wait until that happens? I would rather be proactive. It is weird that people have this stigma with nolva but have no problems running AI's or dopamine agonist's.

As for the second question, because Nolva is very selective to breast tissue, and wont crush circulating estrogen. IMO you don't want to drive estrogen too low. To be fair asin is my favorite AI, but I still try and run the least amount of an AI as possible. He is already running 25mg/day.

There has been some great discussion on this topic by Seth Roberts back in the day. Since then I have followed this train of thought and recommended it to others with tons of success.
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Good enough man. Like I said just curious. Always trying to learn something new. Oh and i think he just started running 25 mgs that's why I put (which you already did) in my comment after I told him to up it.
 
Have you got letro on hand LTL? IMO If you start to develop a lump switch over to letro and blast it. Although this will halt gains due to crushing all estrogen in your body. Letro is veery effective when it comes to getting rid of gyno.
 
AZMIDLYF said:
Prostate exam time R3??
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You don't see it?

That's not a peace sign... he's claiming "i want 2 fingers!"

Sent from my Toaster using Am.com
 
LiveToLift said:
Day 22

Pinned 300mg Test E
Dosed 40mg dbol
Dosed 25 aromasin

Day off from the gym. Rest day today, did get the pin done when I got home from work. Pinned left quad for the first time and it was very tricky for me. Being it was a new location and not very easy for me to get to properly I had a tough time. Nerves got to me for sure and it took a few minutes to finally take the stab. I started to get a bit of pain when I got down to that last half inch of the needle again and this being a new location tells me it obviously wasn't scar tissue. Hit down 1 1/4 and pushed out the test. No blood at all and no pain immediately after injection. I did start to notice some PIP about 20 minutes post injection but hoping I can sleep it off.

As you can see I brought down the dbol dose and upped the aromasin. Sadly it is because I'm starting to notice some gyno symptoms. Nips are extremely tender and there is very slight bruising to the side of the nip. Hard to tell if there is a lump but if there is its very small. The biggest pain in the ass with it is that when my shirt rubs it almost feels like rug burn. Started to notice it yesterday and it wasn't nearly as bad late in the day today after dosing two days of 25 aromasin and not mega dosing the dbol. If it continues dbol will be cut out completely in the next day or two. Any other suggestions are welcome, I have been nearly side immune on every run I've done to date so this hit pretty hard. Sad day... :whiner:
Click to expand...

both dbol and test... it's no surprise to be... I'd be running mega dose exemestane throughout

Sent from my Toaster using Am.com
 
Airborne42 said:
I'm scared lol jk
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You need to start Nolva now!!!! :-D
Piston Honda said:
Little frame with boobies? Sounds like you should upload a self-portrait to the "Ideal Woman" thread lol!
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on it!
Frank Reynolds said:
IMO I would be more worried about an AI effecting gains than Nolva.
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interesting I definitely thought the other way around. Why would you start at 40? 20 wouldn't be sufficient? Would you say 20 Nolva 12.5 asin?

Danb2285 said:
Good enough man. Like I said just curious. Always trying to learn something new. Oh and i think he just started running 25 mgs that's why I put (which you already did) in my comment after I told him to up it.
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Yea only 2 days at 25.
toddgranit said:
I've got to say that this has been an extremely educational log.
Peace
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:-) I agree!
Lukef2000 said:
Have you got letro on hand LTL? IMO If you start to develop a lump switch over to letro and blast it. Although this will halt gains due to crushing all estrogen in your body. Letro is veery effective when it comes to getting rid of gyno.
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Letro is most definitely not in my near future! A little tenderness isn't going to kill my cycle damn it! :-D
Sourdough said:
both dbol and test... it's no surprise to be... I'd be running mega dose exemestane throughout

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I didn't feel I would have a problem but no one is invincible. No biggie, have some decisions to make!
 
The most important thing is that you're prepared and either have this stuff on hand already or can obtain in a few days. You'll be good
 
I'm just prone as many guys are, just takes the right cycle to realize it.

I run an AI much of the year, let alone on cycle.


Just don't let this get to any amount of progression whatsoever. Seriously, drop the cycle or completely flip it to non aromatising compounds, preferably directly DHT or based off DHT...

Anything more then itchy or puffy, even the slightest amount of a lump or severe pain when bumped or touched I'd abort or flip the script.

It's not worth any cycles gains to get gyno. Speaking from experience.
 
Sourdough said:
I'm just prone as many guys are, just takes the right cycle to realize it.

I run an AI much of the year, let alone on cycle.

Just don't let this get to any amount of progression whatsoever. Seriously, drop the cycle or completely flip it to non aromatising compounds, preferably directly DHT or based off DHT...

Anything more then itchy or puffy, even the slightest amount of a lump or severe pain when bumped or touched I'd abort or flip the script.

It's not worth any cycles gains to get gyno. Speaking from experience.
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Superdrol or winny would be good choices for oral additions I think. Or EQ too which I think aromatizes very very slightly (correct me if I'm wrong)
 
LiveToLift said:
interesting I definitely thought the other way around. Why would you start at 40? 20 wouldn't be sufficient? Would you say 20 Nolva 12.5 asin?
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IME 10-20mg takes too long to get relief. 40mg for a day or two, typically works FAST. 10mg is plenty from there on out.

Sourdough said:
I'm just prone as many guys are, just takes the right cycle to realize it.

I run an AI much of the year, let alone on cycle.
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How are your lipids? Do you run exem year round, or just some form of AI?
 
Joining the madness a bit late. I'll try to go back and read some of this friggin book later, but idk if I will read much lol.

I'm going to run a similar cycle once I feel ready depending on how various injuries heal up etc.

Wk 1-4: M1,4ADD
Wk 1-10: 500mg Test E
Wk 8-12: Possibly another Oral
 
I think I'll start the Nolva. It may be just in my head but I'm still noticing irritation but not so much pain like I was. Ending the cycle without trying to salvage it just isn't going to happen for me. I almost held off on mentioning the sensation I was having because I was afraid people would freak. At this point I'm not all that worried about it and plan on finishing this out. Was wondering how people felt about me swapping the Superdrol for epi to close the cycle out being it may help to minimize issues? Good discussion guys, as I always I encourage and love your input.
 
Side note...

The issue became a problem the day I benched the +25 on my max set. Could be soreness still from shocking my pecs? I am feeling pretty sore all over my pecs so there is more to consider.
 
There should be a distinct difference between muscle soreness and nipple sensitivity. One thing I will say, and this can be a problem for some once they feel any sensation in their nipples is, don't touch them(squeeze, play with, etc). People have a tendency to keep messing with them.
 
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