ws4sb vs 5/3/1

I know a lot of places suggest switching up between the 2, is that really necessary?
I was reading some places they are more focused on catering to the needs of a powerlifter, not someone trying to gain mass; which is what I am shooting for..
 
niZmo said:
I know a lot of places suggest switching up between the 2, is that really necessary?
I was reading some places they are more focused on catering to the needs of a powerlifter, not someone trying to gain mass; which is what I am shooting for..
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A stronger muscle has the potential to be a bigger muscle. Anyone who says that you can't gain a significant amount of mass with either of these programs is an idiot.
 
Rodja said:
For what purpose?
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Mass building..
I have been keeping my workouts to 6-10 x 2..and going up as much as I can, I also added decline BP to my routine and took out DB presses for chest..I plateaued on my squats which sucks =\
Today I am shooting for adding 10 lbs to the bar (I usually put up about 150-160) and hopefully I don't run into any problems.
 
I recommend 5/3/1. It's MUCH less complex than WS4SB, allows for more flexibility and customization (volume exercises), but most importantly, it works!

I gained 60lbs on my squat (390 to 450) and 70lbs on my deadlift ( 495 to 565) over the course of 3 months. My results werent the norm (only 10lbs per month is the norm) but im def not complaining.

It didnt add much to my bench or shoulder, well, it added 5lbs a month, which is what the program is designed to do, but I wasn't satisfied.

Literally everyone I've talked to that uses the 5/3/1 loves it
 
niZmo said:
Mass building..
I have been keeping my workouts to 6-10 x 2..and going up as much as I can, I also added decline BP to my routine and took out DB presses for chest..I plateaued on my squats which sucks =\
Today I am shooting for adding 10 lbs to the bar (I usually put up about 150-160) and hopefully I don't run into any problems.
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They can both be used effectively for mass building.
 
niZmo said:
Is there a major difference between the 2?
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Both are excellent templates. I like to do WS4SB in season for my sport, in the off season which is about 6 months long, I like to do 5/3/1 and do a cycle. Both will pack on mass if your diet is in check.
 
Pure strength = 5/3/1.

Athletic enhancement = WS4SB.

Both are great programs and there's a huge difference in the focus of each program. 5/3/1 is a great strength enhancer and WS4SB is a great athletic enhancer. You'll gain pure strength on both, and athletic enhancement on both, but one is specialized to build endurance, strength, flexibility, hypertrophy and speed and the other is more focused on putting 100% focus on strength.
 
I'll just run with both I guess..one week WS4SB and then another week the 5/3/1..diet I'm working on, but on the brighter side, my stomach is as flat as ever :) according to my girlfriend I have a "wingspan" now lol.
 
niZmo said:
I'll just run with both I guess..one week WS4SB and then another week the 5/3/1..diet I'm working on, but on the brighter side, my stomach is as flat as ever :) according to my girlfriend I have a "wingspan" now lol.
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No, it doesn't work like that. The 5/3/1 is based on progression from week to week. So that wouldn't work. Pick one and stick to it for months, and even Years.
 
niZmo said:
Mass building..
I have been keeping my workouts to 6-10 x 2..and going up as much as I can, I also added decline BP to my routine and took out DB presses for chest..I plateaued on my squats which sucks =\
Today I am shooting for adding 10 lbs to the bar (I usually put up about 150-160) and hopefully I don't run into any problems.
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How you eat will determine your mass gain more than training 5/3/1 vs WS4SB.
 
niZmo said:
While I have people's attention here: any ideas on how I can train myself to eat more?
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eat, every two hours.. Dont eat because your hungry. Treat it like a workout.. Be like im going to go eat some pb at 2. Than at 2 go and eat PB
 
niZmo said:
While I have people's attention here: any ideas on how I can train myself to eat more?
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That I can't help you with...I'm on the total endomorph end of things so eating has never been my issue. ;)
 
I would rather miss an entire workout than just 1 meal! That's how you need to think. Diet is 50% of the equation in gaining. The other 30%is sleep and 20% is training.
 
niZmo said:
While I have people's attention here: any ideas on how I can train myself to eat more?
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I think most of the other posters already covered this, but don't do the program one week this and one week that. That's not enough time for any routine to serve as effective. You don't go from medicore to a success in a week. To become a Doctor it takes 8 years, to become a nurse in takes 2-4, to become a Marine it takes 3 months plus preparation. Why would only a week account for success in transformation of your body? Believe me, it takes longer than that. Some can do it in just a few months, and for some it takes years, but only the dedicated overcome those odds. You can't just give it a week and expect anything to happen, you have to bust your ass with each program for months.
 
niZmo said:
I'll just run with both I guess..one week WS4SB and then another week the 5/3/1..diet I'm working on, but on the brighter side, my stomach is as flat as ever :) according to my girlfriend I have a "wingspan" now lol.
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I'd say just pick one for a solid 6 months and then try the other one. 5/3/1 first for just general strength which you can translate over into the WS4SB for training explosive strength if you'd want to switch. Just a recommendation.
 
kingk0ng said:
I think most of the other posters already covered this, but don't do the program one week this and one week that. That's not enough time for any routine to serve as effective. You don't go from medicore to a success in a week. To become a Doctor it takes 8 years, to become a nurse in takes 2-4, to become a Marine it takes 3 months plus preparation. Why would only a week account for success in transformation of your body? Believe me, it takes longer than that. Some can do it in just a few months, and for some it takes years, but only the dedicated overcome those odds. You can't just give it a week and expect anything to happen, you have to bust your ass with each program for months.
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My reason for wanting to switch every is because I don't want my muscles to get used to the workout routine..I'm committing myself 150%, whether it's with either of these or another.
 
niZmo said:
My reason for wanting to switch every is because I don't want my muscles to get used to the workout routine..I'm committing myself 150%, whether it's with either of these or another.
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Progressive resistance with a periodic deload will keep your muscles from "getting used to" either of the routines referenced in the OP.
 
niZmo said:
My reason for wanting to switch every is because I don't want my muscles to get used to the workout routine..I'm committing myself 150%, whether it's with either of these or another.
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As long as you're progressing with weight it'll keep up the additional stimuli for muscle growth. It's not going to magically stop within a month or two. You don't need to completely change routines either. You can just rotate different exercises into your current program every month for the whole 'muscle confusion' thing.
 
broda said:
As long as you're progressing with weight it'll keep up the additional stimuli for muscle growth. It's not going to magically stop within a month or two. You don't need to completely change routines either. You can just rotate different exercises into your current program every month for the whole 'muscle confusion' thing.
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Ok thanks..I have kinda hit a plateau, and been stuck there for a while..my BP is at 170x10 (widegrip) and my curls are at 35's everything else is going up but those two..any ideas on switching up exercises? I thought about taking out the curls and replacing them with Zottmans..but I feel like I'm going to have to drop some weight off, and I don't want to go backwards.
 
niZmo said:
Ok thanks..I have kinda hit a plateau, and been stuck there for a while..my BP is at 170x10 (widegrip) and my curls are at 35's everything else is going up but those two..any ideas on switching up exercises? I thought about taking out the curls and replacing them with Zottmans..but I feel like I'm going to have to drop some weight off, and I don't want to go backwards.
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You could either try hitting up DBs and dropping the BB for a little while and/or hitting your triceps harder. Weighted dips are the best accessory exercise for the bench, I think. Also I personally love Zottman Curls or you could also try straight bar curls. Make sure you're working on your forearms too.
 
fadi said:
I would love to hear your view on each comparing them and the benefit of each. which would you recommend to what type of goal.
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5/3/1 is something that is meant for as a long-term plan (a year or so) and far too many think it is something that you can do for 3 months and expect to get the results that they desire. For the average trainee looking for some extra mass and strength, it is a great template.

WS4SB is something that is more athletically oriented and is DeFranco's take on the conjugate system (ME days working up to a 3-5RM instead of 1-3RM). It is more elaborate and provides more volume (ergo, time in the gym) than 5/3/1 and also is a bit more balanced in terms of internal/external rotator work, variety, dynamic work, etc.
 
niZmo said:
My reason for wanting to switch every is because I don't want my muscles to get used to the workout routine..I'm committing myself 150%, whether it's with either of these or another.
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As mentioned by another poster, your muscles don't get used to workout routines, they only get "used to" stimulus. If you're using progressive resistance, then your giving your body new stimulus each workout. What that means is to add weight each week, or if you can't add weight add a rep, do an extra set, slower tempo, etc. Preferably, you should add new weight. Your body doesn't get used to specific exercise and no longer respond. You just have to continually give your body something new to grow from, which is done by adding weight to exercises.
 
broda said:
You could either try hitting up DBs and dropping the BB for a little while and/or hitting your triceps harder. Weighted dips are the best accessory exercise for the bench, I think. Also I personally love Zottman Curls or you could also try straight bar curls. Make sure you're working on your forearms too.
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^ Pretty much everything said here is great advice.

Another thing I want to do add. I noticed you mentioned your "wide grip bench", I'm hoping that's used in reference to separate close grip bench (used as an accessory) from conventional barbell bench press. There's no use in having different grip variation (super wide, neutral).

The pecs are hit when the body pushes in front, even with a close grip bench press the chest is still activated. If you are continually hitting the pecs at different grips, then you're not going to have a grip that you'll get used to and use to hit PR's.

Tuck your elbows, arch your back, drive your feet into the ground, hold your breath coming up until the last inch or so of the lift and then exhale, work on your triceps with weighted dips, close grip bench press, work on your shoulders with overhead press, hit incline bench, barbell rows.

All of those will really help you develop your bench out, but also focus on your power cleans, squats, deadlifts.
 
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