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Elbows in or out for bench press

Yes, that was a good question. I need the answer to this as well. My goals are getting a big chest. I need more inner and central bulk. Also, my left pec was slightly torn years ago and healed that way. Now I have a little vally in my left pec. My right pec is also alot stronger than my left. Any comments/suggestions?
 
To build your chest symmetrically, use dumbbells instead of a barbell.
 
I currently have a weird style keeping my elbows out with a narrower grip because of injury. I am doing fine with it and the weight is going back up. In powerlifting I used the tuck style to use my triceps more and protect my shoulders. I have watched others flare out the elbows and crush weights.
 
flare your elbows out as far as you can without having shoulder pain. 45 degrees is good. If you really want to build your chest try this next time you bench. I recomend you only use a moderate weight.

Use a tempo of 4(negative) 0 1(positive) 0 and do 8 reps. The tempo and reps are very important.

Now on the negative contraction squeeze your hands together as hard as you can (without actually moving your hands).
You will be amazed at how much your chest contracts. Do the same on the way up if you can. (if it hurts to much just do it on the negative)
With the tempo above the set will last about 40 seconds. Do 4 sets of this with strict 40 second breaks andyour chest will be on fire!
 
toddgranit said:
This, also bring the bar to your collarbone.
Click to expand...

This is a horrible idea. That would not only make it more of a triceps lift, but it can lead to major AC impingement.

The tuck between a raw PL'er and BB'er isn't that much different, but the flare after the eccentric is what is highly different. BB'ers tend to flare much earlier than a PL'er and it can push more of the emphasis on the chest, but it can also put more stress on the shoulder.
 
Rodja said:
This is a horrible idea. That would not only make it more of a triceps lift, but it can lead to major AC impingement.

The tuck between a raw PL'er and BB'er isn't that much different, but the flare after the eccentric is what is highly different. BB'ers tend to flare much earlier than a PL'er and it can push more of the emphasis on the chest, but it can also put more stress on the shoulder.
Click to expand...

He was asking what works for size, I was specifically addressing what works for size, I am not suggesting you use heavy weights with flared elbows to your neck.
What I am suggesting is that a wide grip with flared elbows to the collarbone, with moderate weight very slow and controlled emphasizes the chest, at least it has for me.
However for chest size their are much better options than bench, dumbbells for one, and ring push ups, as well as dips.
Peace
 
Docmattic said:
flare your elbows out as far as you can without having shoulder pain. 45 degrees is good. If you really want to build your chest try this next time you bench. I recomend you only use a moderate weight.

Use a tempo of 4(negative) 0 1(positive) 0 and do 8 reps. The tempo and reps are very important.

Now on the negative contraction squeeze your hands together as hard as you can (without actually moving your hands).
You will be amazed at how much your chest contracts. Do the same on the way up if you can. (if it hurts to much just do it on the negative)
With the tempo above the set will last about 40 seconds. Do 4 sets of this with strict 40 second breaks andyour chest will be on fire!
Click to expand...

This is a decent idea. You get more lateral forces (i.e.: triceps) on a barbell bench press compared to a dumbbell flat press. Placing some medial tension might balance that.

Br
 
rsnake21 said:
If your goal is to build chest then you should flare your elbows out to about 45 degrees
Click to expand...

Remove the word flare. And yes, a 45 degree angle between the upper arm and torso is ideal for pec recruitment and shoulder safety.

Br
 
toddgranit said:
He was asking what works for size, I was specifically addressing what works for size, I am not suggesting you use heavy weights with flared elbows to your neck.
What I am suggesting is that a wide grip with flared elbows to the collarbone, with moderate weight very slow and controlled emphasizes the chest, at least it has for me.
However for chest size their are much better options than bench, dumbbells for one, and ring push ups, as well as dips.
Peace
Click to expand...

I'm not going to argue with what you feel personally.

But, the research (and my personal experience and that working with dozens of clients) does not support this logic. The ideal grip for maximum pec recruitment during the bench press is approximately 1.5X that of the acromial span (about 1.5 times shoulder width. Anything wider and the emphasis shifts to the anterior delts, closer and you get more triceps.

Keeping the elbows flared out to 90 degrees is problematic for two reasons. First, and of importance to the orriginal question, it places the emphasis on the front deltoids and off the pecs. Second, and of importance to health, it decreases the space between the acromium and head of the humerus, resulting in supraspinatus (and possibly biceps tendon) impingement and leading to tendonitis. In simple terms, it causes the tendon of the rotator cuff to get grinded between head of the upper arm bone and that bones process you feel at the top outside of your shoulder. Over time that grinding inflames and damages the tendon, and can lead to a host of shoulder issues.

Br
 
For those interested, I have a good article discussing everything I described above in more detail. PM me your email and I can send it.

Br
 
Rodja said:
This is a horrible idea. That would not only make it more of a triceps lift, but it can lead to major AC impingement.

The tuck between a raw PL'er and BB'er isn't that much different, but the flare after the eccentric is what is highly different. BB'ers tend to flare much earlier than a PL'er and it can push more of the emphasis on the chest, but it can also put more stress on the shoulder.
Click to expand...

A tuck is a tuck. If the arms flare its because of the tuck style weakness in the triceps and maintaining form. I know of no one that would deliberately tuck and flare out of the bottom.
 
Future said:
A tuck is a tuck. If the arms flare its because of the tuck style weakness in the triceps and maintaining form. I know of no one that would deliberately tuck and flare out of the bottom.
Click to expand...

I didn't say anything about flaring at the bottom. Flaring, in this scenario, happens in the concentric.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
My goals are getting a big chest. I need more inner and central bulk.
Click to expand...

everything else sounds good, I just wanted to add that it is essentially impossible to target inner vs outer pec. Upper vs lower sure, but not inner vs outer from any research i've seen
 
Oh stop dork. You know what I mean. :)

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Future said:
Oh stop dork. You know what I mean. :)

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Click to expand...

Small adjustments can make big differences. A flare should happen, but only during the concentric and, ideally, after the first 2-4".
 
What do you base the "should" on? And no I am not being argumentative. :)

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Future said:
What do you base the "should" on? And no I am not being argumentative. :)

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Click to expand...

I base it off of every PL'er I've talked to about the bench press. The elbows should "pop" out near the lockout and move the bar towards the head.
 
Rodja said:
I base it off of every PL'er I've talked to about the bench press. The elbows should "pop" out near the lockout and move the bar towards the head.
Click to expand...

Never heard that and I compete at the world level. Is this a shirted press?
 
Actually raw and shirted are very different.

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Well the same principle you are saying are applies is not true because they are totally different lifts.

I compete. We dont teach what you are saying.

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Future said:
Well the same principle you are saying are applies is not true because they are totally different lifts.

I compete. We dont teach what you are saying.

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Click to expand...

Bc your technique is the only one that is valid.
 
Flat bench is mainly for a c*ck measuring contest. If you want some quality shape to your chest, especially when you are trying to isolate specific areas then drop the flat bench. Start using DB, flies, and cables. Also, don't emphasize flat movements, I start off with incline DB for example. I probably do one exercise of flat, being flies, or DB press, etc...I know its hard to drop flat bench because every idiot seems to gauge how strong you are off of it. You want to measure strength ask me my dead lift lol.
 
Well I think the bases have been covered.

For me , incline BB with elbows at 45 degrees with moderate reps as heavy as possible as stirred positive development for me. Control is key, slower negatives, explosive positives.
 
lonewolf0420 said:
Well I think the bases have been covered.

For me , incline BB with elbows at 45 degrees with moderate reps as heavy as possible as stirred positive development for me. Control is key, slower negatives, explosive positives.
Click to expand...

^^^ this. I love me some incline press. I've been working hard on my upper chest and pairing BB incline with some cables is really starting to barrell out my chest.
 
Please provide credible references.

Rodja said:
Bc your technique is the only one that is valid.
Click to expand...

Well I am not all alone in my technique.

[video=youtube;iHHGtQn0V5I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHHGtQn0V5I[/video]
 
He says flare back not out.

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i actually dont bench with my elbows, i just take them off than bench....jk
i believe that everyones form is a little different and that there are alot of people saying alot of differwnt things so research, practice and luck allows you to know exactly where your elbows belong
 
Rodja said:
How exactly do you flare back, but not out?
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Its his video that you posted. I think based on the video you posted he is arcing backward. That is just my guess.

And no hard feelings debating. Nice to share some interesting dialogue.

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Future said:
Its his video that you posted. I think based on the video you posted he is arcing backward. That is just my guess.

And no hard feelings debating. Nice to share some interesting dialogue.

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Click to expand...

How Tate teaches is to keep the elbows tucked until near lockout and then to pop the elbows out and flare them, which moves the bar towards the head. If you didn't pop he elbows and flare, then it would essentially be a front raise the last few inches and that would significantly lower poundages.
 
Rodja said:
How Tate teaches is to keep the elbows tucked until near lockout and then to pop the elbows out and flare them, which moves the bar towards the head. If you didn't pop he elbows and flare, then it would essentially be a front raise the last few inches and that would significantly lower poundages.
Click to expand...

I believe metel militia teaches to flare back and westside teaches pressing in a straight line.
 
I have also struggled with elbow positioning, but I have tried to keep them in as many have instructed me as this being the proper technique. I can however bust many more reps out if my elbows aren't tucked in. I guess its about what your goal is. I have always been preached to about proper form, so I typically like to stick to that. I'd love to shove out those extra reps, but sometimes I have a mental set where I think I am cheating. Nice to see all the opinions and comments here though.
 
Well Ied like to jump on this lol the only thing I feel like I'm lacking in is chest what would be the best ways to hit every part
 
SweetLou321 said:
I believe metel militia teaches to flare back and westside teaches pressing in a straight line.
Click to expand...
That is correct. Current westside lifters will promote pressing in a straight line as opposed to the J or C pressing that flaring the elbows creates. One thing I like about their thought process is that for me it really does help to think of the bar as unmovable and you're just pushing your body through the bench by leveraging yourself against the bar. But I of course learned first to flare at the top.
 
Torobestia said:
That is correct. Current westside lifters will promote pressing in a straight line as opposed to the J or C pressing that flaring the elbows creates. One thing I like about their thought process is that for me it really does help to think of the bar as unmovable and you're just pushing your body through the bench by leveraging yourself against the bar. But I of course learned first to flare at the top.
Click to expand...

I flare slightly and and always try to press in a straightish line. By that I dont try to flare back towards the rack when I do flare.
 
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