ephedrine on beta receptors

just in case patrick is not familiar with his views, can you post it here? or a link to it's overview?
 
is ephedrine good for muscle building in a fashion similar to clenbuterol? That is an interesting question. I have always thought it could share at least some of the muscle effects of beta2 agonists. Probably not to the same degree. Does Connelly quote any actual direct studies showing effects on muscle?
 
ephedrine of course does not directly interact with beta2 receptors however it stimulates the release of catecholamines that do
 
Patrick Arnold said:
is ephedrine good for muscle building in a fashion similar to clenbuterol? That is an interesting question. I have always thought it could share at least some of the muscle effects of beta2 agonists. Probably not to the same degree. Does Connelly quote any actual direct studies showing effects on muscle?
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I think there was a whole episode of bodyrx where he discusses it.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
is ephedrine good for muscle building in a fashion similar to clenbuterol? That is an interesting question. I have always thought it could share at least some of the muscle effects of beta2 agonists. Probably not to the same degree. Does Connelly quote any actual direct studies showing effects on muscle?
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Royd The Noyd said:
I think there was a whole episode of bodyrx where he discusses it.
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this I heard it on a radio show over at rx muscle and he said he took the stance ephedrine does build muscle.
 
madchemist said:
1R,2S-ephedrine is a potent direct beta receptor agonist.

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Good read madchemist thanks, now...PA thoughts? and also yours madchemist, good way to dose and use for muscle building goals? Worth it? Realistic?
 
Celorza said:
Good read madchemist thanks, now...PA thoughts? and also yours madchemist, good way to dose and use for muscle building goals? Worth it? Realistic?
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Most of the studies which show anabolism from clenbuterol in animals use doses that would be intolerable (i.e. side effects) in humans.

However, there are some human studies which show an increase in lean muscle mass from clenbuterol in patients utilizing a ventricular assist device - not very generalizable.

Furthermore, it would be hard to extrapolate the physiological effects of clenbuterol to ephedrine since their kinetics are so different (36 hour half-life versus 3-5 hours, respectively).
 
Royd The Noyd said:
I listen to hear what Vince has to say lol.
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i retired from that show a long time ago. i dont wanna talk for two hours on what the best ratios of branched chains are. or how much protein you should eat at night.

so many subjects i thought coulda been discussed. but connelly called the shots and he would only talk about what was in his comfort zone. i didnt really have that much to offer on those subjects, nor was i enthusiastic about those subjects, so i split that scene
 
madchemist said:
I've not really explored this topic in depth, so correct me where I am wrong.
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one thing i know is the anabolic effects of beta2 agonists in animals are rapid and profound, but dissipate after a short period of time

i mean they actually reverse after a period of time.
 
madchemist said:
Most of the studies which show anabolism from clenbuterol in animals use doses that would be intolerable (i.e. side effects) in humans.

However, there are some human studies which show an increase in lean muscle mass from clenbuterol in patients utilizing a ventricular assist device - not very generalizable.

Furthermore, it would be hard to extrapolate the physiological effects of clenbuterol to ephedrine since their kinetics are so different (36 hour half-life versus 3-5 hours, respectively).
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Well this pretty much throws it off the rack then haha, I can not bring myself to picture someone so desperate to use Clen, to build muscle, with a VAD be it R/L/ or BiVAD haha, but then again...Human kind never ceases to surprise me with their occurrences. And yeah as for the half life of ephedrine, I guess it would be hard to make assumptions on such different kinetics as you point it out. Aw well, ephedrine will remain part of my cutting arsenal only then.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
one thing i know is the anabolic effects of beta2 agonists in animals are rapid and profound, but dissipate after a short period of time

i mean they actually reverse after a period of time.
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Right, receptor downregulation.

The medical world has explored the reverse, mostly in the context of congestive heart failure.

Beta1 blockers result in cardiac beta receptor upregulation, whereas alpha/beta blockers (labetalol) do not.
 
Celorza said:
I can not bring myself to picture someone so desperate to use Clen, to build muscle, with a VAD be it R/L/ or BiVAD
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Clenbuterol, with the addition of a beta1 blocker, is very beneficial to cardiac tissue, directly. This is why physicians place patients who require a VAD on clenbuterol.

Beta1 agonism is what (partially) mediates dystrophic cardiac remodeling.
 
madchemist said:
Clenbuterol, with the addition of a beta1 blocker, is very beneficial to cardiac tissue, directly. This is why physicians place patients who require a VAD on clenbuterol.

Beta1 agonism is what (partially) mediates dystrophic cardiac remodeling.
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True, but this is WITH a beta1 blocker, not just using clen in high dosages and a vad for building muscle mass :p! It was a sardonic pun if you may haha.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
i retired from that show a long time ago. i dont wanna talk for two hours on what the best ratios of branched chains are. or how much protein you should eat at night.

so many subjects i thought coulda been discussed. but connelly called the shots and he would only talk about what was in his comfort zone. i didnt really have that much to offer on those subjects, nor was i enthusiastic about those subjects, so i split that scene
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I believe it's a postponed or discontinued show now anyways. Since they launched their myotropics line or whatever it's called.
 
madchemist said:
Right, receptor downregulation.

The medical world has explored the reverse, mostly in the context of congestive heart failure.

Beta1 blockers result in cardiac beta receptor upregulation, whereas alpha/beta blockers (labetalol) do not.
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my thoughts on beta2 agonists are to not use them until like days before a contest or something.

and then stop. and hope that u can still respond the next time you do a contest

this obviously is directed towards competive physique athletes
 
Patrick Arnold said:
my thoughts on beta2 agonists are to not use them until like days before a contest or something.

and then stop. and hope that u can still respond the next time you do a contest

this obviously is directed towards competive physique athletes
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This is actually a solid and respectable point of view, problem is that some (I think myself included sadly) people develop a psychological need for them since when used properly they do present themselves with good results, though like you mentioned, the likelihood of continued response upon repetitive use decreases and thus makes the "needing" and "abusing" of them counterproductive haha
 
Celorza said:
Well this pretty much throws it off the rack then haha, I can not bring myself to picture someone so desperate to use Clen, to build muscle, with a VAD be it R/L/ or BiVAD haha, but then again...Human kind never ceases to surprise me with their occurrences. And yeah as for the half life of ephedrine, I guess it would be hard to make assumptions on such different kinetics as you point it out. Aw well, ephedrine will remain part of my cutting arsenal only then.
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Clen is not that bad...
 
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