Dianabol Rookie

StevelKanevel

New member
I'm considering doing a low-dose cycle of Dianobol and have done some research but I still have a few questions. I fully expect some of you to try to talk me out of this and I honestly appreciate that. I want to make sure I've done all the necessary research so I don't mess myself up. Basically what I'm looking at doing is this (all substances are oral, no injectables):

Dianabol - 6 week cycle - 15-20 mg daily
Nolvadex - 10 mg daily (up it to 30 if gyno symptoms show up)

Post cycle - Nolvadex (week 1 - 50 mg daily / week 2 to 4 - 25 mg daily)

The questions I still have are as follows:
1. Is there a specific timing protocol (IE: pre w/o, post w/o, etc) that I should follow for the Dianabol and/or Nolvadex?
2. Some forums recommend Clomid post cycle instead of Nolvadex - what are your experiences with either? Is one superior?
3. If I am already starting to see hair thinning should I just run in the opposite direction of Dianabol or are there ways to eliminate or greatly reduce the potential for hair loss?
4. Will acne, hair loss, and gyno symptoms disappear after stopping the cycle? I am aware that some gyno symptoms can be permanent but it sounds like smart anti-estrogen use can pretty much eliminate those to begin with.

Thanks in advance.
 
0) Why no test base of any kind?
1) Dianabol has a relatively short half-life, spread it out throughout the day for best levels.
2) Clomid is a fertility drug, that being said, nolva has also been shown to stimulate LH and FSH.
3) Any androgenic agent has the potential to exasterbate hair loss, that being said, d-bol is not known for horrid issues.
4) Acne will go away, hair loss is often permanent unless treated (see the sticky) and gyno depends on how far along it is.

Running nolva this whole cycle won't do much except increase stress on your liver.

ManBeast
 
I do have a recent testosterone test but I don't have the numbers with me at the moment. I am on the low-average side of things though if that makes a difference. I've looked into testosterone but I'm adamantly opposed to injectables.

It sounds like you are suggesting I avoid the 10mg of daily Nolva from the get-go and only use it on-cycle if gyno symptoms show up. Is that the case? I assume using it post-cycle is still recommended though.
 
Yes on the nolva. There are many alternatives these days to injectible test, and arguably better orals to run solo than dianabol., many of which are more legal to obtain as well.

ManBeast
 
ManBeast said:
Yes on the nolva. There are many alternatives these days to injectible test, and arguably better orals to run solo than dianabol., many of which are more legal to obtain as well.

ManBeast
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Do you have suggestions for more legal options or is that outside of the scope of these forums? I'm all for staying on the right side of the law if possible.

Thanks again for all your help.
 
Lotsa good compounds like epistane, p-stanz, max-lmg, helladrol are legal still. Which you choose is up to your goals.
 
So is Epistane really all it seems to be cracked up to be? It sounds like the pulse method might be a good fit for me since I'm hoping to add about 10 pounds of lean mass and it would be sweet if I leaned out a bit but that's not my top priority at this point. My gut instinct is it sounds too good to be true, especially since it's still legal.
 
Epistane is great, I'm not a fan of pulsing unless its being used as a bridge to another cycle (for advanced users), I'd rather see a 4-6 week cycle with a proper PCT at the end.

ManBeast
 
When you say proper PCT at the end, do you mean the same Nolva protocol as with the Dianabol? I'm just starting to research the Epistane so I haven't had time to look into all that yet.
 
A SERM (like nolva) dosed at the end, along with other things if you want (mentioned in my thread as well).

ManBeast
 
I like the idea of pulse,but I would do a light PCT after anyway. I will do a Dbol pulse in the near future but with Epi I would do a regular cycle.
 
ManBeast said:
Epistane is great, I'm not a fan of pulsing unless its being used as a bridge to another cycle (for advanced users), I'd rather see a 4-6 week cycle with a proper PCT at the end.

ManBeast
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Is this because pulsing doesn't provide the same gains or is there another reason? My understanding of pulsing is that it can limit side effects and still provides decent gains (although reduced). Since I'm new to this and not in a huge hurry I'm fine with reduced gains if it limits potential side effects.
 
My gut tells me a couple things:
1) Shutdown will be the same overall and/or some of the sides from the hormonal up and down will be worse (depending on compound/doing schedule)
2) The same or more gains can be had with a shorter non-pulsed cycle of similar or lower duration, which offers the benefit of stable hormone levels.

A pulse has its uses, but as a standalone cycle I don't feel its the best approach, especially for a first timer. You really have to listen to your body more and know the very early signs of different sides to pulse well.

ManBeast
 
Yeah, that makes sense to me. I've been looking into the other compounds you recommended and am leaning towards that route. I'm just trying to decide between epistane, helladrol, and another one I found called Katanadrol. I like what I read about Katanadrol but I'm not finding a lot of information on it apart from the manufacturers site which is probably all marketing smoke.
 
Katanadrol is great stacked at a high-ish (expensive) dose or solo at very high and very expensive doses.

ManBeast
 
The research I've done so far was leading me towards 250mg a day. As a first-timer to anabolics I'm hesitant to stack anything with the Katanabol and would like to ease into this with a single compound. As a solo stack, would you consider 250mg/day a high dose?

I'm currently thinking about doing a cycle of Katanabol to get a bit more cut for spring and summer, and then in the fall doing a cycle of either Epistane of Halladrol to bulk up. If I have success with this I might stick to the two cycles a year plan and keep things simple. Sorry for all the questions, I'm researching at the same time as posting these but you've been an amazing help so thank you a ton.
 
Running solo you'd probably want more like 300-350mg/day honestly. It is a very mild compound with tons of synergistic potential.

ManBeast
 
You'd need it almost 400+ a day. It's weak but a great addition to an existing PH. You won't put on 10lbs with it. If you're looking for 10lbs of lean mass with possible leaning effects run hdrol/helladrol or epistane. I prefer helladrol
 
Agreed, its more of a hardener/preserver for a cut on its own.

ManBeast
 
So it sounds to me like helladrol or epistane is the best bet for overall recomp if I'm running either one solo (IE: 5-10 lbs lean mass and 3-5% reduction in bodyfat). I've seen some reports of fat gain with either of these but I've also seen reports of fat loss so it probably just depends on diet. I eat super-clean paleo and only consume carbs after glycogen demanding work so I doubt fat gain will be an issue with my diet.
 
Yep, either of those would be ideal for your goals.

ManBeast
 
Ok, so I think I've decided to run with Helladrol and it looks like MRSupps has a starter stack with everything I'll need for the whole cycle including PCT. I also like that it's all OTC and legal so no issues there. My only concern is the lack of a SERM. They state that it's not necessary and the OTC stuff they put in the stack will be enough but I figured I'd get a second opinion. Thoughts?
 
StevelKanevel said:
Ok, so I think I've decided to run with Helladrol and it looks like MRSupps has a starter stack with everything I'll need for the whole cycle including PCT. I also like that it's all OTC and legal so no issues there. My only concern is the lack of a SERM. They state that it's not necessary and the OTC stuff they put in the stack will be enough but I figured I'd get a second opinion. Thoughts?
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get a SERM. its safer.
 
You might not need one, but its a good idea to have. Dylan has bounced back incredibly fast using torem, and he went to a pretty high dose.

ManBeast
 
Is there such a thing as an OTC SERM or are they all prescription? I just checked the forums and didn't find anything off the bat.
 
They are also available as Research Chemicals, mattrag has a good post in my PCT thread about locating a reputable Research Chemical supplier.

ManBeast
 
Cool. Thanks. Can you point me to a post or site that would help me figure out if I should cut out any of my current supps while on the cycle or post cycle? I think that's the last thing I need to figure out.

Thanks!
 
I can't due to board rules, if you need help with tips on finding one, just shoot me a PM and I'll be glad to help.

ManBeast
 
Ok, so here's the final verdict. I plan to run the MRSupps Helladrol Starter Stack exactly as outlined on their product page including PCT, however, I will also have some Nolvadex on hand in case gyno shows up but won't plan to use it otherwise. Does that sound like a sane way to jump into this game?
 
Nolva should be the base of your PCT, their supports are just to make it even easier IMHO.

ManBeast
 
ManBeast said:
Nolva should be the base of your PCT, their supports are just to make it even easier IMHO.

ManBeast
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So just to be clear, you suggest running the Nolva as well as their supports? Same dose as what I had researched earlier (week 1 - 50 mg daily / week 2 to 4 - 25 mg daily) or something different?
 
Nolva at 40/20/20/10 would be the way to go (doeses are mg/day /per week/) for a 6 week helladrol run.

ManBeast
 
The MRSupps site recommends a 4 week Helladrol cycle but I've seen a lot of forum posts on 6 weeks. Do you think 6 weeks is fine for a first timer if I'm including Nolva in my PCT?
 
I think 6 weeks is ideal for it as a standalone cycle, or where it is the primary compound. I'd dose it at 50/75/75/75/100/100 (if your body likes the 100).

ManBeast
 
Sounds good. I just ordered everything so I should be good to go.

When you say "if your body likes the 100" I assume it will be obvious if I'm not responding well?
 
Yeah, the sides should be pretty wretched if you don't like it (lethargy/back pumps would be the first and major indicators).

ManBeast
 
75, taurine is a suppliment to be using to help reduce/prevent the back pumps, I'm still not sure on the dosing for that though.

ManBeast
 
Probably, I'm just a lazy bum sometimes, I deserve it today, I killed legs :D

LoL
 
ManBeast said:
75, taurine is a suppliment to be using to help reduce/prevent the back pumps, I'm still not sure on the dosing for that though.

ManBeast
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Ive been told 4g is a good dose pre workout...but one guy was saying he had to take 3G or more like three times a day because his back pumps were so bad...if you search back pumps there is a forum where a lot of people discuss the effective Dosing they have used for taurine...
 
So I'm on week 4 and it's been unbelievable. Thanks for all the advice getting me going. I was debating wether to push it to 6 weeks and I think I will but the only question I have is how important is using Forged Liver the full cycle? I've got enough to drop to a half dose through week 5 and then nothing for week 6 but if it's a big deal I can order another bottle tomorrow and easily have it in time. I've got a crapload of Milk Thistle I can take as well if that's good enough for a replacement.

Thanks!
 
StevelKanevel said:
So I'm on week 4 and it's been unbelievable. Thanks for all the advice getting me going. I was debating wether to push it to 6 weeks and I think I will but the only question I have is how important is using Forged Liver the full cycle? I've got enough to drop to a half dose through week 5 and then nothing for week 6 but if it's a big deal I can order another bottle tomorrow and easily have it in time. I've got a crapload of Milk Thistle I can take as well if that's good enough for a replacement.

Thanks!
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What all have u noticed as far as body comp, strength etc?
 
strength is way up. Vascularity and hardness is ridiculous. No side effects other than mild back pumps. I upped my taurine and they seem to be better now.

I've put on 10# so far. Curious to see how much I maintain.
 
10?! I put on 20 in 5 weeks of dianabol how many MGS are you taking
 
StevelKanevel said:
strength is way up. Vascularity and hardness is ridiculous. No side effects other than mild back pumps. I upped my taurine and they seem to be better now.

I've put on 10# so far. Curious to see how much I maintain.
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Awesome! Did u get my PM by chance Im really interested in this your help would be appreciated!
 
Yeah, I got my paperwork on that at my other house so it may be a week or so before I'm back where I can get it. It's going to be a few weeks before I wrap up my PCT as well but I'll try to remember to post a full update.
 
StevelKanevel said:
Yeah, I got my paperwork on that at my other house so it may be a week or so before I'm back where I can get it. It's going to be a few weeks before I wrap up my PCT as well but I'll try to remember to post a full update.
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Sweet thanks bud I really appreciate it!
 
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