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Skinny Fat Hardgainer Needs HELP!!!!

It is always a good day when you learn something new and you should always strive to learn something new.
 
Rethink said:
You didn't like my advice last time I contributed but I thought I would make another comment seeing as you seem to be still focused on the wrong issues.

Firstly your enthusiasm for supplements is quite niave. There are many people including myself who make excellent progress without supplements. If you choose to take supplements keep it simple. Just take creatine because its the only scientifically validated ergogenic. Creatine has a small performance enhancing effect that some people, particualarly competitive athletes find useful. Other supplements fail to recieve scientific backing from the sports medicine community. If any of the other supplements enhanced performance they would recieve the same support creatine has but this is sadly not the case.

There are prohormones that work but if you are thinking of taking prohormones then you are basicly taking oral c-17 alkylated steroids. The host of side effects are enough to warrant anybody to reconsider taking them and you will need illegal ancilleries such as SERMs to properly use these products.

Secondly, you rejected my advice about you needing to lose weight and seem to think that you need to gain weight instead. The American Council on Exercise states that the obese threshold begins at 25% bodyfat. That being said 30% is way too high to consider gaining weight! You need to lose weight rapidly before you begin to gain weight. If you want to enhance your appearance then there is no reason why you shouldn't lose weight because slim people always look more attractive than fat muscular people.

You should aim to reach 8% bodyfat then consider whether you want to gain weight. Some people once they reach single digits bodyfat decide they don't need to gain weight and aim to maintain low bodyfat instead. This brings me to my next point.

Third, you may have unrealistic expectations about how much muscle you can gain in a given timeframe naturally. The most dry muscle a person can gain in a week is half a pound. So expecting to gain more than 2 pounds or a Kg a month is setting yourself up to gain unacceptable amounts of fat without increasing muscle mass.

You also should consider your natural potential for growth. The most lean mass a person can have naturally is determined by squaring their height and multiplying this figure by 25. You can't expect to exceed this figure without performance enhancing drugs. Additionally it takes at least 5 years of consistent training to reach this and most people will take much longer because their training and nutrition are not ideal.

I hope you consider my advice more carefully this time because when I read your posts I have some concern about the direction you are headed.
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Str8 schooling right there!
 
@ 30% BF I would suggest PSMF diet plus ECA for 2-4 weeks and then a somewhat low carb diet (around 100g or so) and about 40% of calories coming from fat and 40% coming from protein. The fat will fall right off!

If you want extra "help" with it then in addittion to the ECA you can add in alpha T2, lipotrophin AM & PM (replace the caffeine with these)

Note: During the PSMF phase allow yourself one cheat meal a week and if need be a carb refeed (not to crazy just to keep your thyroid happy)
 
What if you have some body fat to lose and you up your cals an train hard... Do you think it would burn b/f as well as pack on the muscle that's something I never tried before I didn't want to eat too much over maintenance....
 
AaronJP1 said:
What if you have some body fat to lose and you up your cals an train hard... Do you think it would burn b/f as well as pack on the muscle that's something I never tried before I didn't want to eat too much over maintenance....
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The scenario your describing is known as recomp (where your scale weight stays the same but you eat slightly over maintenance and trade lbs of fat for lbs of muscle) and is extremely hard to accomplish without first having experience with dieting and macro manipulation. You have to know what works for you first and you learn this in the process of cutting. At above 20% body fat, anyones focus should be to drop the fat first. If you are a beginner then working about may bring about some newbie gains (yes, even in a calorie deficit!) but your overall focus should be to drop the fat. PSMF is an extreme option, yes, but it works! And the crazy fat loss the first couple of weeks you will experience will help motivate you to keep pushing forward. After a couple weeks of PSMF you can ease into a more normal diet and still maintain the fat loss (although not as rapid) and will be more in a position to gain more muscle along with the fat loss. Again I would only recommend a PSMF for someone who is over or near to the 20% BF mark.
 
JudoJosh said:
The scenario your describing is known as recomp (where your scale weight stays the same but you eat slightly over maintenance and trade lbs of fat for lbs of muscle) and is extremely hard to accomplish without first having experience with dieting and macro manipulation. You have to know what works for you first and you learn this in the process of cutting. At above 20% body fat, anyones focus should be to drop the fat first. If you are a beginner then working about may bring about some newbie gains (yes, even in a calorie deficit!) but your overall focus should be to drop the fat. PSMF is an extreme option, yes, but it works! And the crazy fat loss the first couple of weeks you will experience will help motivate you to keep pushing forward. After a couple weeks of PSMF you can ease into a more normal diet and still maintain the fat loss (although not as rapid) and will be more in a position to gain more muscle along with the fat loss. Again I would only recommend a PSMF for someone who is over or near to the 20% BF mark.
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Naw I'm not that high and that's what every1 is always trying to do recomp :)
 
AaronJP1 said:
Naw I'm not that high and that's what every1 is always trying to do recomp :)
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Recomp is all really just a balancing act between energy expenditure and calorie intake. It involves the intense weight training and calories of a bulk but with the dietary discipline and cardio of a cut. Most will require at the very least, 4 days a week of weights and 3 days a week cardio (some do even more cardio). The diet is really the key to a successful recomp, which is why I suggested it only for someone who is experienced in dieting and macro manipulation and knows what works for them. You have to eat above maintenance (almost as much as if you were bulking). What I find that works for most is learning how to manipulate your carb intake, something like a carb cycling diet (high carb, mid carb and low carb days) works great for a recomp IMO. But as I said in the beginning.. It is all a balancing act. The extra calories above maintenance is fine and is what would help you to build muscle, and all the cardio you will be doing will help mop up any extra calories (but the key is not eating too much extra, yea you can increase cardio more to make up for it but there is only so much cardio can help with)
 
I gotcha thx for your reply.
 
Sorry guys, didn't have time to read all the posts since I just finished working 5 min ago (80 hour week this week), but here is my diet for this week:

8AM -3 eggs poached
10AM-8oz no fat milk and 2 tbsp natty PB
12PM-4oz chicken breast diced with 1 tbsp garlic flavored extra virgin olive oil
2pm-1 scoop up your mass gainer with 8 oz water
Workout
4pm-1 scoop up your mass gainer with 8 oz water
6pm-4oz shredded beef

Occasionaly another glass of milk with natty pb if still hungry....Cut out all sugar, alcohol, caffeine etc...May switch to a protein sparing fast, but not sure...What do you all think?

By the way, my new position is as a Senior Account Executive for a direct lender providing merchant cash advances, ACH loans, and lock box products to small and medium sized businesses known as ASF Capital so let me know if any of you or anyone you know needs money for their business!!! :)

Thanks again guys!
 
Hey guys, I hope that didn't come off the wrong way or anything, did it? I've just been super busy with my new job. I'm thinking about starting the modified protein fast thing. I'm just going to eat egg whites and chicken for about 1 month and see how that goes. Should I do weights 3x per week with HIIT cardio after or...? Was thinking about sticking to heavy and low reps for compound full body workout.....
 
TrumpetLegend said:
Hey guys, I hope that didn't come off the wrong way or anything, did it? I've just been super busy with my new job. I'm thinking about starting the modified protein fast thing. I'm just going to eat egg whites and chicken for about 1 month and see how that goes. Should I do weights 3x per week with HIIT cardio after or...? Was thinking about sticking to heavy and low reps for compound full body workout.....
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Did u add up all the calories?
I would maybe add in more carbs....
 
TrumpetLegend said:
Hey guys, I hope that didn't come off the wrong way or anything, did it? I've just been super busy with my new job. I'm thinking about starting the modified protein fast thing. I'm just going to eat egg whites and chicken for about 1 month and see how that goes. Should I do weights 3x per week with HIIT cardio after or...? Was thinking about sticking to heavy and low reps for compound full body workout.....
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If you are gonna do PSMF then dont do HIIT. Honestly you dont even need to do cardio on it but if you really want to then 30mins of moderate cardio only a few times a week. As for weights, on a PSMF I would say to stick with a full body routine 2 times a week (3 if you really want to but it isnt needed) Something like one exercise per bodypart/muscle group for around 12-15 reps.

What do you have planned for food? Have you read any resources on a PSMF diet yet?
 
Yeah, I think it was 2000 or 2400, but I forget the exact number.&nbsp; It was def. in that range though. <BR><BR>I'm thinking about starting the Protein sparing fast starting after New Years.&nbsp; I did look in to it and I appreciate all the advice.&nbsp; I'm thinking of taking a multi-vitamin 1 or 2x per day and eating just chicken and egg whites for 1-2 months and working out with compounds only 2 or 3 times per week and possibly adding in HIIT cardio, but will see if it is needed or not to start.&nbsp; I'm looking in to the super foods for veggies too, but not sure.&nbsp; I really need to wait till my job picks up because I'm totally broke right now....<BR><BR>Does that sound good to you guys?
 
I would eat more than chicken and egg whites.

I would look maybe into a fasting diet or a 40/30/30 diet and stick to complex carbs, good clean protein and healthy fats....

With one of those diets and exercise it should do you good to build muscle and lose weight.
 
I already tried the 40/70/70 thing and it didn't work for me, but what is a fasting diet?
 
TrumpetLegend said:
I already tried the 40/70/70 thing and it didn't work for me, but what is a fasting diet?
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if it was 40/70/70 then that's maybe why 40/30/30 didnt work :p

Either way fast is were u go 16 hours just on BCAA and eat your daily totals in an 8 hour period.

Example: Lean Gains Diet...
 
Woops type. I meant to say 40/40/20 lol My bad. I'm going to try the Protein modified fast consisting of egg whites and chicken only plus vitamin/minerals 2x per day and possibly adding in leviathan reloaded or something for roughly 8 weeks.....
 
PSMF Day 2: I feel like I'm dying. I had 3 egg beater egg whites 5x and about 3-4oz chicken once. I'm going through major caffeine, alcohol, and sugar withdrawal. I've had a killer migraine for about 6 1/2 hours now. Was going to work out, but I think I'm going to use this week to adjust and start workouts next week....
 
TrumpetLegend said:
PSMF Day 2: I feel like I'm dying. I had 3 egg beater egg whites 5x and about 3-4oz chicken once. I'm going through major caffeine, alcohol, and sugar withdrawal. I've had a killer migraine for about 6 1/2 hours now. Was going to work out, but I think I'm going to use this week to adjust and start workouts next week....
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I wouldn't cut out the caffeine yet man. As far as when you start working out again I suggest you add back in the caffeine so you can actually lift hard. :)

Good luck pmsf is great for quick weightless.
 
Not going to lie, I only lasted 3 days on PSMF. Any alternatives you guys can think of?
 
TrumpetLegend said:
Any other ideas at all?
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Me personally I track macros sometimes...
I'm not trying to be a pro, I eat enough/a lot and just lift mane...
 
Fruits and oils. Fatty meats. Protein is great, but eating whole food fats also is good.
No insulin spike + calories = win
 
I'm almost out of serious mass...
Not sure if I'm going to another gainer or not....

But if I do, it'll be pro complex gainer, quick mass or muscle juice....
 
I think I'm going to cut down to 8%-10% and then try to gain more muscle because I never seem to see any difference so maybe it's because of all the fat....
 
So this is the new work out. Tell me what you think. I'm also doing HIIT cardio 3-4x per week and eating 500 calories below maintenance and cycling little to no carbs on non work out days. I want to hit every muscle group so eventually, I'm going to substitute curls for chins and weighted chins and close bench for dips...Let me know if I missed anything... All exercises are 12 reps, 10 reps, 8 reps of increasing weight

Monday and Thursday:

Flat Bench
Barbell Row
Military Press
Barbell Curl
Close Bench
Shrugs

Tues and Fri:

Squats
Front Squats
Stiff Deads
Seated Calf
Standing Calf

(Was going to do lying ham curls too, but I pulled a muscle in left ham so I think I'm going to leave that one out)

Will this hit every part of every muscle? I feel like I'm missing side laterals for middle delts and some other stuff.....
 
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