My (pirated) Pre-Workout Brew QUESTION

VandySe7en22

New member
I don't post much on the forums, but I'm an avid reader of this site and bodybuilding. I try to do my research before posting something stupid, but I might break my streak here. This is my pre-workout brew that I pirated from some other posts around the forums and the replies from mr.cooper69 and others.

Caffeine – 100mg to 300mg (200mg is standard)
1,3 DMAA – 25mg to 75mg (50mg is standard)
Citrulline Malate - 6g to 8g
Agmatine - 500mg to 1000mg
ALCAR – 1g to 2g
LCLT- 2g
Tyrosine – 1g to 2g
Piracetam – 2g
Alpha GPC -250mg to 500mg

Is there anything I've overlooked? The only knowledge I have is what I've read and my experience with a few of these products.

Also, should I be taking the nootropics throughout the day and not just preworkout? If so, can someone suggest a schedule with doses?

Thanks in advance, guys.
 
The only thing I would recommend is adding some creatine and beta alanine, that is if you don't already take them at a different time in the day. Other than that, looks pretty perfect to me!

As far as dosing the nootropics more than once, it depends on what your use for them is. If it's solely for pre-workout, then there's no need, however, if you'll be using them to study/work or something to that effect, it would be a good idea to dose them twice throughout the day.
 
Yeah, I get my creatine and BA a little earlier in the day!

And for the nootropics, if I was to use them more than just pre-workout, would I split the dosages I mentioned above in half or would I take that dosage twice-a-day?

I workout at 6 p.m. after work, so would it be safe to assume using the nootropics upon waking and pre-workout would be best for me?

Thanks again for the response, man.
 
Yup, I would start off by using half the dose when you wake up, then the other dose pre-workout and use that for a couple days/weeks to see how that suits you, then from there you'd be perfectly fine adjusting the dose up to what you had in mind.
 
Will do! Thanks, CDMMA.

thestein1016 said:
x2 on the beta.
Just curious, but how are you taking this? Mixing with???
All those raw supps taste like @sssss
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I haven't really made it that far yet. I noticed some of these come in caps, but as for the powers...I was thinking some zero calorie crystal light type mix and some water. Thoughts/Suggestions?
 
Cool...thanks, CDMMA

And yeah, I'll be taking them (some in bulk powder/some in cap) with crystal light or some other 0 calorie type mixer. Suggestions or comments for that?
 
I approve :D. Please note that piracetam doesn't provide focus; rather, it provides clearer thoughts and thought fluidity. Not really of benefit preworkout, but there is evidence showing that it combats hypoxia, so who knows. Looks very nice though!
 
VandySe7en22 said:
I don't post much on the forums, but I'm an avid reader of this site and bodybuilding. I try to do my research before posting something stupid, but I might break my streak here. This is my pre-workout brew that I pirated from some other posts around the forums and the replies from mr.cooper69 and others.

Caffeine – 100mg to 300mg (200mg is standard)
1,3 DMAA – 25mg to 75mg (50mg is standard)
Citrulline Malate - 6g to 8g
Agmatine - 500mg to 1000mg
ALCAR – 1g to 2g
LCLT- 2g
Tyrosine – 1g to 2g
Piracetam – 2g
Alpha GPC -250mg to 500mg

Is there anything I've overlooked? The only knowledge I have is what I've read and my experience with a few of these products.

Also, should I be taking the nootropics throughout the day and not just preworkout? If so, can someone suggest a schedule with doses?

Thanks in advance, guys.
Click to expand...

A few of those things could be more effective with vitamin cofactors being included.. I would add in there a fast release full spectrum B vitamin capsule. If you compare with and without it should be a noticeable difference.
 
You and I must be reading the same websites. I've made my own PWO that is pretty much exactly this, plus 10g whey and 5g leucine. Basically a cheaper BCAA/EAA deal. I've also got some COP I'm trying out, but I'm not sure if I'm noticing any effects yet.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
I approve :D. Please note that piracetam doesn't provide focus; rather, it provides clearer thoughts and thought fluidity. Not really of benefit preworkout, but there is evidence showing that it combats hypoxia, so who knows. Looks very nice though!
Click to expand...

Haha, glad you could stop in and approve this. I definitely stole/based most of my information on your posts to other users.

I think I'm going to add a b complex like jarrows b-right...and maybe try the piracetam and alpha-gpc on their own initially.

Is there a different nootropic that you would recommend specifically for a pre-workout then?

SDR said:
A few of those things could be more effective with vitamin cofactors being included.. I would add in there a fast release full spectrum B vitamin capsule. If you compare with and without it should be a noticeable difference.
Click to expand...

Would Jarrow's B-Right work? I noticed it is cheap and has the more potent B vitamin forms. Also, were you thinking I should I add some vitamin C also?...I noticed it is in a few company's preworkouts.

Flabby said:
You and I must be reading the same websites. I've made my own PWO that is pretty much exactly this, plus 10g whey and 5g leucine. Basically a cheaper BCAA/EAA deal. I've also got some COP I'm trying out, but I'm not sure if I'm noticing any effects yet.
Click to expand...

I've been wanting to try some COP...maybe once I get wet, er my feet wet, from this preworkout...I'll try it!
 
VandySe7en22 said:
Haha, glad you could stop in and approve this. I definitely stole/based most of my information on your posts to other users.

I think I'm going to add a b complex like jarrows b-right...and maybe try the piracetam and alpha-gpc on their own initially.

Is there a different nootropic that you would recommend specifically for a pre-workout then?



Would Jarrow's B-Right work? I noticed it is cheap and has the more potent B vitamin forms. Also, were you thinking I should I add some vitamin C also?...I noticed it is in a few company's preworkouts.



I've been wanting to try some COP...maybe once I get wet, er my feet wet, from this preworkout...I'll try it!
Click to expand...

As you may be aware, alpha gpc, alcar, and tyrosine are all nootropics. I really don't think you need any more, but if you want one more, consider Huperzine A.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
As you may be aware, alpha gpc, alcar, and tyrosine are all nootropics. I really don't think you need any more, but if you want one more, consider Huperzine A.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I did'nt know alcar was considered a nootropic...but thank you for awaring me haha. I'm not sure how I missed that in my reading...Thanks
 
mr.cooper69 said:
As you may be aware, alpha gpc, alcar, and tyrosine are all nootropics. I really don't think you need any more, but if you want one more, consider Huperzine A.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't combine acetylcholine precursors with Huperzine A unless you are very knowledgeable about what you are doing. And even then I still wouldnt. Its a very bad idea. A hypercholinergic crisis could result.
 
VandySe7en22 said:
Would Jarrow's B-Right work? I noticed it is cheap and has the more potent B vitamin forms. Also, were you thinking I should I add some vitamin C also?...I noticed it is in a few company's preworkouts.
Click to expand...
That B Vit should work well.. And some Vit C would help.. I just dont think your going to feel it as compared to the B Vit. Its certainly worth adding though.
 
SDR said:
I wouldn't combine acetylcholine precursors with Huperzine A unless you are very knowledgeable about what you are doing. And even then I still wouldnt. Its a very bad idea. A hypercholinergic crisis could result.
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I'll make note of that...thanks. I won't be getting any deeper with nootropics until I educate myself. They are definitely interesting though.

SDR said:
That B Vit should work well.. And some Vit C would help.. I just dont think your going to feel it as compared to the B Vit. Its certainly worth adding though.
Click to expand...

Good stuff...thanks for the reply.
 
VandySe7en22 said:
I don't post much on the forums, but I'm an avid reader of this site and bodybuilding. I try to do my research before posting something stupid, but I might break my streak here. This is my pre-workout brew that I pirated from some other posts around the forums and the replies from mr.cooper69 and others.

Caffeine – 100mg to 300mg (200mg is standard) Get pills, they are super cheap
1,3 DMAA – 25mg to 75mg (50mg is standard) Get pills, again they are super cheap
Citrulline Malate - 6g to 8g (This is good, well done with the high dose)
Agmatine - 500mg to 1000mg (Not needed but use if you want, just adds cost)
LCLT- 2g (3-4 grams)
Creatine of choice - 1.5-2.5 grams depending on what you use. 2g of MCC would be my choice.
Beta Alanine - 4 grams


Is there anything I've overlooked? The only knowledge I have is what I've read and my experience with a few of these products.

Also, should I be taking the nootropics throughout the day and not just preworkout? If so, can someone suggest a schedule with doses?

Thanks in advance, guys.
Click to expand...

I would drop the ALCAR and run 3-4 of LCLT, better for workouts anyways. Also, creatine earlier in the day to me is fine but you need to have at least a half dose with this, there are numerous studies that show how effective it is pre-workout. Also, you have half the equation with a solid dose of CM but no beta-alanine? Come on, dirt cheap and 4 grams there will go a long way with 6-8 of CM. Tyrosine is fine but unless it is N-acetyl-tyrosine I don't bother, you will get more focus from the caffeine/geranium combo than the tyrosine. Here is what I would modify it to and it will be just as effective and cost you less.

Caffeine – 100mg to 300mg (200mg is standard) Get pills, they are super cheap
1,3 DMAA – 25mg to 75mg (50mg is standard) Get pills, again they are super cheap
Citrulline Malate - 6g to 8g (This is good, well done with the high dose)
Agmatine - 500mg to 1000mg (Not needed but use if you want, just adds cost)
LCLT- 2g (3-4 grams)
Creatine of choice - 1.5-2.5 grams depending on what you use. 2g of MCC would be my choice.
Beta Alanine - 4 grams
B12 - get a high dose of the methyl version, B12 strips are sold at NP and are excellent option.

For flavoring crystal light is ok, the generic Walmart one is better as it is really strong. I like that and you can mix up lots of this and then measure out what a serving is with the flavoring. Hard to say if this is better than some of the options out there or not. Scivation Novem is very close to this just no 1,3 DMAA or CM (something you could easily add to it).

Also, you should look at Anabolic Ignite from Muscle Feast. It is similar and very inexpensive for how much is in it. Just drop a caffeine pill with it and hold on.
 
His LCLT dose was spot on with the studied dose (there is even a study showing 1g is effective).
Beta-alanine - I do not recommend 4g preworkout for many reasons. He can take it throughout the rest of the day.
Creatine - no need for creatine preworkout if he takes it at another time of day. I also like mono or mcc. There are not numerous studies outlining its effectiveness preworkout.
b12 - b12 is nice but with a high stim preworkout, most of its preworkout benefits go unnoticed. I still use it if I can find it cheap.

And IMO the alcar is awesome preworkout, as was the tyrosine. N-acetyl-tyrosine, which I also like, has no proven benefits over tyrosine, and some markers even point to it being less effective and cleared faster.

Not to totally shoot down what you said, but I just think OP'S initial template was fine with a few modifications.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
His LCLT dose was spot on with the studied dose (there is even a study showing 1g is effective).
Beta-alanine - I do not recommend 4g preworkout for many reasons. He can take it throughout the rest of the day.
Creatine - no need for creatine preworkout if he takes it at another time of day. I also like mono or mcc. There are not numerous studies outlining its effectiveness preworkout.
b12 - b12 is nice but with a high stim preworkout, most of its preworkout benefits go unnoticed. I still use it if I can find it cheap.

And IMO the alcar is awesome preworkout, as was the tyrosine. N-acetyl-tyrosine, which I also like, has no proven benefits over tyrosine, and some markers even point to it being less effective and cleared faster.

Not to totally shoot down what you said, but I just think OP'S initial template was fine with a few modifications.
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Doesn't matter to me, I mentioned what I think is the best one on the market right now in my post. I don't have time to read tons of studies or research, I know what works for me so that is what I posted. As for tyrosine, N-A-T is in the new DAA product from Atheletix and it has a much more noticeable difference for me than even 3 grams of tyrosine. Sure ALCAR is great but before a workout I am focused on what can give me maximum performance and again, LCLT does that over ALCAR [for me]. As for beta alanine, I have been using it on the regular for so long that if I don't take 4 grams, I don't notice much from it, if anything. Ideally 2g 4x ED would be perfect but again, who has the time to do that? Damn work makes all that a pain sometimes.

Long story short, I get access to about any pre-workout I want and have tried to make my own or use someone elses, I gave up on home brew as the flavoring is just a pain and so is measuring doses properly. Right now I am enamored with how impressive Craze is over pretty much everything out there from a stimulant perspective. Ultima is hands down the best out there non-stim and is off the chart with 200mg of caffeine and 60mgs of geranium. With products like that out there, I just don't want to make my own anymore as I don't have time. It is cool though that people do experiment with combos and share it cause it may lead to a synergy of ingredients and doses that people didn't think of before.
 
oufinny said:
Doesn't matter to me, I mentioned what I think is the best one on the market right now in my post. I don't have time to read tons of studies or research, I know what works for me so that is what I posted. As for tyrosine, N-A-T is in the new DAA product from Atheletix and it has a much more noticeable difference for me than even 3 grams of tyrosine. Sure ALCAR is great but before a workout I am focused on what can give me maximum performance and again, LCLT does that over ALCAR [for me]. As for beta alanine, I have been using it on the regular for so long that if I don't take 4 grams, I don't notice much from it, if anything. Ideally 2g 4x ED would be perfect but again, who has the time to do that? Damn work makes all that a pain sometimes.

Long story short, I get access to about any pre-workout I want and have tried to make my own or use someone elses, I gave up on home brew as the flavoring is just a pain and so is measuring doses properly. Right now I am enamored with how impressive Craze is over pretty much everything out there from a stimulant perspective. Ultima is hands down the best out there non-stim and is off the chart with 200mg of caffeine and 60mgs of geranium. With products like that out there, I just don't want to make my own anymore as I don't have time. It is cool though that people do experiment with combos and share it cause it may lead to a synergy of ingredients and doses that people didn't think of before.
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Yeah all excellent points. Your creatine and BA are well-dosed if taken in one shot throughout the day. Sometimes the science conflicts the anecdote...I too notice more focus from NAT than tyrosine, but as you hint towards, everyone has something different that works for them.
 
Great discussion guys...I'm going to go back through your suggestions and see what works for me as far as price and effectiveness (once I finally make it).

mr.cooper69 said:
Yeah all excellent points. Your creatine and BA are well-dosed if taken in one shot throughout the day. Sometimes the science conflicts the anecdote...I too notice more focus from NAT than tyrosine, but as you hint towards, everyone has something different that works for them.
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If I was to switch to NAT, is the dose the same as the tyrosine?

Also, I'm starting to get frustrated from looking at digital scales. Could one of you veterans recommend one? I would like to stay under $100 here, but I'm open to listen. Thanks again.
 
VandySe7en22 said:
Great discussion guys...I'm going to go back through your suggestions and see what works for me as far as price and effectiveness (once I finally make it).



If I was to switch to NAT, is the dose the same as the tyrosine?

Also, I'm starting to get frustrated from looking at digital scales. Could one of you veterans recommend one? I would like to stay under $100 here, but I'm open to listen. Thanks again.
Click to expand...

I got one on Amazon for $30 I think, it works. Get a tare weight for it too so you can make sure it is calibrated and you are good. If you are a mg off it won't make a bit of difference, once it is all mixed up each time you dose it won't be perfectly identical.

For NAT, I like 1-2 grams, start lower than if you need more, add more. When I had time to do this kind of thing, I would make up batches of 3-5, see how it went for a week then would reformulate or tweak as needed. I used to keep records but I never went past say 6 ingredients cause I was poor at the time. There are lots of good bulk powder suppliers out there so take advantage of it so you can save money. Last tip, I used to buy the small amounts, find a formula that worked, then get a lot of each so I was good for a LONG time. The nice thing is with creatine it is easy and cheap to get a lot (even 500 MCC pills is $30 last I checked), same goes for the stim pills. I don't mix those in cause some days I don't need it all.
 
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