FL3X MAGNUM
Legend
Nice back lifts there man
Careful on that knee bro!
I go for bulk on this one... if I have the money, its taken year round... so bulk is the way to go for me...plus I have multiple cap-em-quick capping sets for diff size pills.... have like 5 tubs of USPowders bulk super cissus waiting in my cart for checkout in 2 weeks as part of my ridiculous order... spending 1/4 my bonus check just to supplements(over 1000 planned so far between sites... with no shipping added in), lol.
the rest is going to rebuilding the engine in my datsun P/U and christmas gifts... after that Im saving the last 1/4 so I have enough to feed my fat face all through a big long bulk....
alright... log fell off end of last week cause there were no more workouts, and thus nothing to update on.... skipped my shoulders day cause I had the boy and didnt have any convenient time to hit the gym... just wanted to spend time with the fam as well...
Tonight is Chest though and I plan on going in full tilt... going to throw a lil biceps work in there as well and really see what kind of pump I can get... I never do these 2 groups together but the feeling to do so struck me today reading Fl3x's pump fixx thread... time to put up a good showing for Hemavol!
Pretty excited... before and after bicep pump pics coming...
Sourdough said:yeah... Im thinking about hitting up the bis right after the flys portion of my workout... about 4 or 5 sets in ... cause then Ill be doing a contraction of the bis with the fly's pinching motion as opposed to the tris with the pressing motion, should make for a fairly fluid transition... at least thats the plan.
mattrag said:Dang bro that's some good arms there lol.
Tricep picture is apparent but the bicep pic looks very similar. Hmm. I'm on the phone so maybe my resolution is not that good. Looks good though.
The feeling is important as well. Can't wait for my bottle to get in!!
That's some Popeye sh!t right there!
pics are great!
you can deff. notice a generally "full" look with your upper body![]()
I can see one pic but I'm also viewing from my phone so who knows lol. Looking large and the logs is going great! I just drank down my maximize and read the last 2 pages.
Btw you're a pimp for having a wife almost 6 years younger then you lol
That's some Popeye sh!t right there!
Haha! Next pic hold onto a can of spinach![]()
I can most def see a difference. Nice. You always put in good solid work![]()
Sourdough said:So... weirdest thing..... I dont have a sore back at all.... barely even tight feeling.... also chest has felt full all day and had a slight pump to it still... def seeing some effects on recovery here!
On the other hand, my middle finger on my left hand is all tender the entire length from gripping the bar and it pulling on it so much and a callous on my right hand almost got ripped off of my palm that is now sore... along with tender knees from bangin it with the bar...
all worth it.
mattrag said:Damn. Looks like it assists in recovery too eh? Can't wait to run this stuff durin my pct lol.
For sure... I wish I had some carnatine (lclt), creatine and beta alanine to run with it too, I think it would make for a powerful workout and recovery stack.
mattrag said:Always keep those in stock in my supp cabinet![]()
bigdavid said:the bulk beta alanine at nutraplanet is such a good deal Ive been using the same 500 g container for prob 4 - 5 months.
Heh. Yea, I've got a kilo in my cart right now awaiting purchase, lol.... Should last a lil while
bigdavid said:well if you dose it 1.5 g twice per day we are looking at 11+ months haha
I actually plan doing 6g ed.... It will last just over 5 months, lol.... As long as i keep on top of dosing....
Ive been using BA for such a long time that I only take it on workout days now. I figure when I was talking it for so long religiously I had a good amount of carnosine built up already and there has to be a maximal level where taking 6 grams per day wont be necessary. Or at least that is what I would think.
its true... beta alanine in and of itself is the rate limiting factor to creating carnosine though, as you know, so there isnt any known bell curve on the doses that Ive heard about.... Id prefer to rather over dose slightly and be insured that im hitting those maximum saturation levels in order to make as much as possible....
Ive even contemplated looking into whether or not doing a staggered dose of L-histidine along side beta alanine would further yet allow one to increase carnosine levels but Im completely unsure if its even plausible or if it has considerably oral bioavailability and proper channeling to where it needs to go when taken orally...
The effects of beta alanine are most definitely cumulative as well and the effects even last well after cessation of dosing depending on how quickly your body clears of the excess beta alanine so Im sure that 6g really would only have an effective impact if dosed while the saturation levels are being raised, just like loading, then dose can be dropped... IDK though... its cheap enough im willing to mega dose it all the time JIC
Yeah my thoughts (and this is what I did) were 6 grams for a few months and then I dropped this down to 3 grams every day and now I am only doing 3 grams on workout days. I might try to repeat this process and see if I notice any changes. Since I seem to have been in this maintenance mentality for a little while. So maybe starting soon I shall go back to 6 grams and see if I can notice changes though the changes that BA brings are not always so obvious. I do not think adding l-histidine would have any additional benefits. We get plenty of that in the food that we eat for it to be available in more than necessary amounts for carnosine synthesis.
I heard something about this and the whole thing can be overcome by just supplementing taurine.... which I do have and use ed on every cycle as a precautionary measure.Doesn't BA also deplete taurine stores though? If I find the paper I'll link it here.
Effect of beta-alanine treatment on mitochondrial taurine level and 5-taurinomethyluridine content.
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Source
Department of Pharmacology, University of South Alabama, College of Medicine, Mobile, Alabama 36688, USA. [email protected]
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
The beta-amino acid, taurine, is a nutritional requirement in some species. In these species, the depletion of intracellular stores of taurine leads to the development of severe organ dysfunction. The basis underlying these defects is poorly understood, although there is some suggestion that oxidative stress may contribute to the abnormalities. Recent studies indicate that taurine is required for normal mitochondrial protein synthesis and normal electron transport chain activity; it is known that defects in these events can lead to severe mitochondrial oxidative stress. The present study examines the effect of taurine deficiency on the first step of mitochondrial protein synthesis regulation by taurine, namely, the formation of taurinomethyluridine containing tRNA.
METHODS:
Isolated rat cardiomyocytes were rendered taurine deficient by incubation with medium containing the taurine transport inhibitor, beta-alanine. The time course of cellular and mitochondrial taurine depletion was measured. The primer extension method was employed to evaluate the effect of beta-alanine treatment on taurinomethyluridine content of tRNALeu. The protein levels of ND6 were also determined by Western blot analysis.
RESULTS:
beta-alanine caused a time-dependent decrease in cellular taurine content, which were reduced in half after 48 hrs of incubation. The amount of taurine in the mitochondria was considerably less than that in the cytosol and was unaffected by beta-alanine treatment. Approximately 70% of the tRNALeu in the untreated cell lacked taurinomethyluridine and these levels were unchanged following beta-alanine treatment. Protein content of ND6, however, was significantly reduced after 48 hours incubation with beta-alanine.
CONCLUSIONS:
The taurine levels of the cytosol and the mitochondria are not directly coupled. The beta-alanine-mediated reduction in taurine levels is too small to affect taurinomethyluridine levels. Nonetheless, it interferes with mitochondrial protein synthesis, as exemplified by a decrease in ND6 protein content. Thus, beta-alanine does not cause alterations in mitochondrial protein synthesis through the lowering of taurine levels.
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Despite the volume of research currently carried out on beta-alanine (a selection including my own papers) in relation to exercise based performance enhancement, one issues that still concerns me is safety!
To date we have data showing that Beta-alanine when given for up to 12 weeks does not cause and measured change in those clinical blood markers widely used to show safety. However, 12 weeks is relatively short duration, so what could be a danger from long term use?
Well there are a few studies that may provide some insight!
What dangers: Is a history of use enough?
One thing I often heard is ‘x nutrient has been consumed for years in our general diet and at a dose found in dietary supplements‘, as such it must be safe. However, this generalization is ultimately flawed as sodium and saturated fats are also abundant in our diets and we know the consequences in relation to cardiovascular disease when taken in excess. The take home is natural is not always synonymous with healthy.
Similarly, beta-alanine is abundant in meat sources and especially those animals (meat source) exposed to prolonged periods of hypoxia (sprinters or diving mammals).Taking the premise that we could get beta-alanine from food in a quantity to match the commonly recommended supplement dose (3.2g/d) would mean we need to consumer 400g of whale beef or 600g of turkey. Is that really likely? If it is not, have our bodies really adapted to getting an isolated nutrient such as beta-alanine in that type of quantity?
So what could be the dangers of consuming high does beta-alanine?
Well studies by Allo et al, Harada et al. and Dawson et al, all show that beta-alanine supplementation can deplete cardiac taurine levels. Taurine is very much linked to efficient contractile function (via calcium ion homeostasis) of both skeletal muscle and cardiac muscle and significant depletion could impair heart function.
The problem with these studies is that they use a dose around 25x that used in human studies and over short period of time (circa 5 days). However, although 25x higher in dose, human studies provide a supplementation period which is about 17x longer. As such over a 9 month period we would maybe take in as much beta-alanine as in the rodent trials. What would be the effect of this on humans and health?
At present we don’t know! We do know that in short term (<12 weeks ) although we see increased plasma taurine levels (suggestive of inhibition of taurine uptake) there is no effect on skeletal muscle taurine levels or in the urine (Harris et al. 2006).
The problem here is the heart’s taurine content is relatively low in relation to the total skeletal muscle pool. As such if you where loosing taurine from the heart during high dose beta-alanine supplementation it would likely not be detectable (plasma an urinary taurine levels are highly variable, which would mask small but significant losses of taurine).
Cycle your Beta-alanine!
The answer in overcoming any potential issues with taurine depletion is 2 fold and can be related to some recent work. In a trial from Belgium (Baguet et al. 2009) researches have shown for the first time that following 6 weeks of beta-alanine supplementation the resulting increase in muscle carnosine (~30%) reverts to baseline levels within 3 week following cessation of supplementation. This shows us that we can de-load and load relatively quickly with beta-alanine supplements. During the de-loading period we could then supplement with taurine which in many animal studies has been shown to effectively increase muscle taurine concentrations. This would help replace any lost muscle/cardiac taurine, which may have occurred during beta-alanine supplementation. Unfortunately, in humans the research (Galloway et al. 2008) demonstrates that taurine supplementation is not effective in increasing muscle taurine (<2g).
Given meat contains both beta-alanine and taurine is a safe guess that we can take both nutrients at the same time so potentially taurine when given in a slow release (meat) form will increase muscle taurine levels (we don’t know for sure). Alternatively, higher doses of taurine (>1.5-2g/d) maybe required. My advice 3g/d for 1-4 weeks should do the trick (not evidence but based of my own biopsy data when a PhD student when this type of does seemed to tripled my muscle taurine stores).
On a final note…
Beta-alanine ethyl ester!
As always everyone is looking for the next best thing and like creatine beta-alanine is well absorbed into the muscle, however we are already seeing the appearance of beta-alanine ethyl ester. A word of caution…
In 2001 a rodent study (Keria et al) demonstrated that when beta-alanine and especially alcohol (ethyl ester) co-administered with beta-alanine, significantly increased homocysteine and cysteine excretion into urine throughout the 28-day period of ethanol administration. The study pointed to hepatic dysfunction, not a great health effect.
So until we know more about these new forms of beta-alanine lets get our heads round the long term use issues of beta-alanine….
Until next time!
Athletic Edge N said:
There are two so called potential issues with beta-alanine and taurine. These two so called potential issues are the root cause of the confusion spread on the forums and even within some magazines. Of course supplement manufacturers(NOT AEN) have continued to perpetrate this myth as well
These so called potential issues are as follows:
1. Decreased beta-alanine uptake due to both beta-alanine and taurine sharing the same transporter. The rational is that competition for same transporter will decrease absorption and beta-alanine's ability to increase intramuscular CARN concentrations.
2. Taurine loss from the body,as beta-alanine causes blood plasma taurine levels to elevate. Many people jump all over a few IRRELEVANTLY dosed ANIMAL studies.
Anyway, here are the answers:
Potential so called issue #1:
The supposed taurine competition issue is also NOT an issue, as clearly shown in the research from the pioneer of beta-alanine performance research, Dr.Harris. He states in his most recent study that the increase in muscle CARN with B-Alanine supplementation did not appear to be reduced by the presence of taurine. If you do not believe his word on beta-alanine, I don't know what to tell you, as he is THE worlds authority on beta-alanine research related to exercise performance. Check MD article for our full answer. In a nutshell, intramuscular CARN concentrations are no different when supplementing with Beta-alanine alone or adding taurine into the mix as the research CLEARLY shows.
Potential so called issue #2:
This issue gained popularity on the forums based on some rat and cat studies that showed beta-alanine decreased the taurine content in the myocardium by half. These studies were using doses that are over 100 times higher than the highest Beta-alanine studies of 6.4 grams a day. These rat studies aren't even relevant to how we use Beta-Alanine in terms of dosage.
Beta-alanine does cause taurine levels to increase in the blood plasma, leading some to believe that we are actually losing alot of it from the body through excreting it in the urine. But from multiple studies now, the researchers have shown the taurine loss in the urine, is NOT at any level of significance.
Dr.Tallon who you may have seen posting in within our bb.com thread, put it into context quite nicely, when he said a glass of milk would replace the amount of taurine loss shown in the beta-alanine studies. He has his PhD in carnosine metabolism and his words on the topic hold alot of weight.
Well thats weird... I totally updated this the other night before going to bed n now there isnt anything there??? guess thats what i get for using my phone..
Anyhow... had a decent leg workout, nothing huge to note, then the last couple days I have had a sore throat and feeling under the weather so Ive stayed out of the gym as to not make it worse or spread it to other gym goers, common courtesy...
By the way Im feeling today Im judging it will be safe for me to go back into the gym by wednesday, thurs at the latest. Cant even talk right now cause my voice is horse but its not as sore today, makes me think its on the way to getting better.
yup, stocked up on the cough drops n zinc... thanks broI hate getting sick when things are going good in the gym.
Suck on some cold eez.
Nice log as expected by the way.
thanks mayn... should honestly check out the thread this convo inspired as I went off a bit collecting info, lol...strong innerwebz skills guys, i've been tossing around getting some ba
Thanks bro.damn man getting sick sux.... and it's that time of season (well for me anyway) to be on the look out for the colds!
Take care buddy and just rest up so you can hit the gym at 100%~!