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Therapy for the gut

hitest

Member
I would like to know what treatment options are available to help with gut issues. If you have had food intolerances or irritable bowel symptoms or similar what has worked for you. I'm really interested in the range of options rather than looking for something specific for me. I'm especially interested in things that might help in case of immunological abnormalities.
 
hitest said:
I would like to know what treatment options are available to help with gut issues. If you have had food intolerances or irritable bowel symptoms or similar what has worked for you. I'm really interested in the range of options rather than looking for something specific for me. I'm especially interested in things that might help in case of immunological abnormalities.
Click to expand...

Here is how I approach each and every case and its a pretty fail safe method.

1. I look at every person as if they where an autistic child.
2. Look at the pathology of the problem by examining past medical history, and reason to why they are having these issues. Further evaluate stressors based on biological, psychological, environmental, structural, lifestyle and nutritional imbalances
3. Then formulate list of test to clarify clinically for further medical validations for Dr's
4. After getting results back, I then look how these things connect together to explain what the person is experience to provide a rational answers to the medical professional
5. Look to see how to balance each system in what specific order to get the best clinical response for my final presentation to the Dr.

When dealing with GI areas to focus on and what factors affect each.
1. immune system-
2. neurotransmitters
3. adrenals
4. Hormones -

I have a methodology used to heal gut with out antibiotics - need to beef up immune system, remove the irritation to the GI tract, support adrenals, heal the gut lining. Just like HRT this is an art form filled with lots of science which only a few Dr's have a true understanding of. Again these are the basis, and how one does it is totally individual.

Number one rule. You can not heal the gut until you detox heavy metals which throws another curve ball at you. IF you do not remove the metals the gut will never heal properly. All those probiotics are wasted down the toilet because they be able to adhere to an inflammed wall.
 
It really depends on how deep you want to get and how much money can spend. Three of the biggest areas to look at are yeast overgrowth, food allergies, and gut inflammation in general. I would start with a good quality probiotic (not from a big box store, go to a good health food store or pharmacy that sells quality products) and fish oil. From there you will likely need to do some of your own research to evaluate where to go next as it relates to food allergies and yeast problems.
 
Well, a completely different tack would be to consider dietary Histamine and Histamine intolerance.
*** .ajcn.org/content/85/5/1185.full ***
Try HISTAME for a while, to see if it helps.
 
shbg82 said:
Well, a completely different tack would be to consider dietary Histamine and Histamine intolerance.
*** .ajcn.org/content/85/5/1185.full ***
Try HISTAME for a while, to see if it helps.
Click to expand...

The histamines would be coming from the inflammation found in the GI tract whether from pathogenic bacteria or food allergies, or genetic methylation issues. You are only looking at the symptoms not the cause . I know because I have been through all of this on a personal levels and I was chasing symptoms until I put together the total picture and stopped micromanaging things. This is typical mentality of traditional medicine with the end results just coming up with bandaid effect.
 
Holistic gut therapy is the only way to go. Take it from someone else with a serious history of gut pathologies.
 
bdcc said:
Holistic gut therapy is the only way to go. Take it from someone else with a serious history of gut pathologies.
Click to expand...

Amen, I have also been through it as well, and have learned and implemented a bunch new cutting edge methods with Drs I have been assisting. If you think a probiotic is going to help in complex cases one needs to think again. In some cases can make matters worse if other factors are not dealt with first. Why know with what and who you are dealing with is crucial in proper treatment. I have seen so many other people fail because their Dr's did not check into things deeper.
 
How often do you advise endoscopies rather than CDSAs?
 
bdcc said:
How often do you advise endoscopies rather than CDSAs?
Click to expand...

organic acid.test then we stool tests to.confirm. Endoscopy are wastes more can be found out in less evasive ways. I have done hundreds.of these tests and can spot certain patterns which are associated with gi related issues which are.hidden. One also has to examine other systems to see.if there are imbalances which.may be associated.with ones finding. One thing feeds another if not.properly balanced.
 
fanzdslpwr1;30976n84 said:
If you do have yeast overgrowth of the GI tract then what do you do?
Click to expand...
need to find out why then.look.for issues to.why.your.body can.not.unload it. Where ever yeast.there are.other pathogens in majority of cases. Majority of.my.time is developing gi protolcols for Drs i consult with. Amazing 90% of.people gi tracts are.imbalance and its effecting whole system ..
 
what if say someone was exposed to yeast a few times while on Nexium/Prilosec for 5 years. What do you do now to combat the yeast that took over the GI tract and affected the prostate thus causing low test levels?
 
There are some supplements that can help, there is one called Candida Clear from Now Foods. Of course Rx antifungals are more powerful, but are very harsh on the kidneys and liver longer term. You would need to make adjustments to the diet that deal primarily with eliminating sugars. Just google yeast elimination. Being on a PPI like Nexium or repeated antibiotic courses often lead to yeast problems.
 
RPHMark said:
There are some supplements that can help, there is one called Candida Clear from Now Foods. Of course Rx antifungals are more powerful, but are very harsh on the kidneys and liver longer term. You would need to make adjustments to the diet that deal primarily with eliminating sugars. Just google yeast elimination. Being on a PPI like Nexium or repeated antibiotic courses often lead to yeast problems.
Click to expand...

Mark.these are all.excellent points.
 
fanzdslpwr1 said:
what if say someone was exposed to yeast a few times while on Nexium/Prilosec for 5 years. What do you do now to combat the yeast that took over the GI tract and affected the prostate thus causing low test levels?
Click to expand...

I had a doctor that diagnosed me with candida problems at one point. He liked to hit it hard with antifungals. One of the more interesting ones was econazole. This one has poor bioavailability and so it stays in the digestive tract which is really what you want. This way it is not rough on the liver/kidneys etc. I think you need to get this from a compounding pharmacy for capsules. Longer term you will need to control it with diet.
 
shbg82 said:
Well, a completely different tack would be to consider dietary Histamine and Histamine intolerance.
*** .ajcn.org/content/85/5/1185.full ***
Try HISTAME for a while, to see if it helps.
Click to expand...

I saw this one is out there. Have you tried it? While I agree with the matrix that we would like to get at the cause of the inflammation sometimes you can't and perhaps treating the symptoms will provide some relief.

Another one along these lines is Cissus which may have some gastroprotective activity. Anyone tried this?
 
Yes, I use HISTAME. It is pig DAO (diamine oxidase). My personal allergic reaction to food histamine is swollen nasal passages, but there is
a wide range of possible affected areas in the body, especially GI. For $30 a bottle of 30, it is an interesting SELF experment.
USA medicine is years behind Europe on DAO research....just like they were on candisis.
 
hitest said:
I had a doctor that diagnosed me with candida problems at one point. He liked to hit it hard with antifungals. One of the more interesting ones was econazole. This one has poor bioavailability and so it stays in the digestive tract which is really what you want. This way it is not rough on the liver/kidneys etc. I think you need to get this from a compounding pharmacy for capsules. Longer term you will need to control it with diet.
Click to expand...

You need to get the immune system under control because some times there is elevated il-12 in cytokins which will prevent the body from killing of the candida. One needs to modulate the immune system through several different channels as well as clear the pending infection with specific herbs or medicine. With some Dr's I have recommended other techinques which need to be ran through one's dr due to they have to be monitored for proper CMP's when these are adminstered. REducing processed sugars would be the first start as well as supporting the proper digestive enyzmes to help prevent the pathogenic bacteria from grabing on to in the first place. Again each case is specific, and there are multiply ways I would recommend handling things. Dr's I work with enjoy consulting because they are also learning new things which can help their patients in the future. I do not like to ever recommend cookie cutter methods since every one body can respond differently. Histamines come from dysbiosis, alterations in methylation, or heavy metals which can be triggered by improper DNA gene expression. These are the 3 major areas which I see this occur in >90% of case. All these factors are inflammatory states with in the body.
 
shbg82 said:
OK hitest...
You posted a thread, and asked about alternative ideas on solving gut issues. XYLITOL will kill, bacteria(oral and gut) and fungus(candida, oral and gut).
Click to expand...

For New Years Eve I made a pumpkin roll using xylitol. This really made me feel a lot better - less fatigue, better mojo, and improvements in other recent symptoms. I plan to continue to use this stuff. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
hitest said:
For New Years Eve I made a pumpkin roll using xylitol. This really made me feel a lot better - less fatigue, better mojo, and improvements in other recent symptoms. I plan to continue to use this stuff. Thanks for the suggestion.
Click to expand...

probably felt.good.with every things else.which you.were drinking.
Red flag for.insulin resistance.possible.
 
The Matrix said:
probably felt.good.with every things else.which you.were drinking.
Red flag for.insulin resistance.possible.
Click to expand...

Haha. Drinking usually does not make me feel good. I did have some 7% alcohol Asti to drink and stayed up late so it was that much more surprising that I felt better the next day. These past several weeks I have really had a hard time in the AM. The stuff did give me the runs though but that I'm sure will get better as my laxation threshold increases. No chance of insulin resistance - my fasting levels are 0 and glucose is good. The red flag is bad gut flora. I think this stuff really impacts that.
 
hitest said:
Haha. Drinking usually does not make me feel good. I did have some 7% alcohol Asti to drink and stayed up late so it was that much more surprising that I felt better the next day. These past several weeks I have really had a hard time in the AM. The stuff did give me the runs though but that I'm sure will get better as my laxation threshold increases. No chance of insulin resistance - my fasting levels are 0 and glucose is good. The red flag is bad gut flora. I think this stuff really impacts that.
Click to expand...

again do.not be fooled by resting insulin.being low. Thats at rest.not.functional..Drs.playes that bs.with.me had glucose.80 gave me 100.grams sugar went to 1 hour 160 2 hour 60 3 hours.40. But i had proper levels...bull.sh*t then.you.wonder why.people.are.sick.in.this.control. Until.you.been yanked.by system.i.do.not.discount anything till i have sufficient.evidence to confirm. Most Drs run what ever test i.suggest since this is all.new.to them and.medical.validated. Can i.tell.you.how.many insulin resistant.cases resolved when gi tract was healed? Kind of scary uhh.
 
HITEST have you tried CANDEX?

Yes, large amounts of XYLITOL will cause GI distress.

If you suspect candida overrun, have you had an IGE test, to look for LEAKY GUT?
 
shbg82 said:
HITEST have you tried CANDEX?

Yes, large amounts of XYLITOL will cause GI distress.

If you suspect candida overrun, have you had an IGE test, to look for LEAKY GUT?
Click to expand...

I know for sure that I have a leaky gut. Was diagnosed years ago and treated but never was able to fully recover. At the time the focus was on Candida. I have not tried CANDEX specifically but have tried similar products. I know now that Candida is a secondary problem for me. Even after beating it into submission my gut is still leaky. I have a primary specific immune deficiency that started the leaky gut and Candida opportunistically came along later and gives me troubles too sometimes.

So far I really like Xylitol and plan to incorporate it into my gut management routine. I still have to work out the best way to do this. It won't fix my primary problem but seems that it may help manage my secondary gut issues better than anything else I have tried. We shall see.
 
hitest said:
I know for sure that I have a leaky gut. Was diagnosed years ago and treated but never was able to fully recover. At the time the focus was on Candida. I have not tried CANDEX specifically but have tried similar products. I know now that Candida is a secondary problem for me. Even after beating it into submission my gut is still leaky. I have a primary specific immune deficiency that started the leaky gut and Candida opportunistically came along later and gives me troubles too sometimes.

So far I really like Xylitol and plan to incorporate it into my gut management routine. I still have to work out the best way to do this. It won't fix my primary problem but seems that it may help manage my secondary gut issues better than anything else I have tried. We shall see.
Click to expand...

Dealing with GI recovery with out covering all basis will only result in it coming right back. You are on a decent start about 5 % got another 90 plus to go :)
 
The Matrix said:
Dealing with GI recovery with out covering all basis will only result in it coming right back. You are on a decent start about 5 % got another 90 plus to go :)
Click to expand...

I wish we knew what all the bases are. That is what I spend all my free time working on. Poorly funded basic research moves slowly. Since I cannot do new drug development my best chance is to do trials of treatments on myself and see if anything helps. Sadly the previous treatment I tried made me worse. There is no way to predict these outcomes in advance since we only have a basic understanding of my immune system problems.
 
hitest said:
I wish we knew what all the bases are. That is what I spend all my free time working on. Poorly funded basic research moves slowly. Since I cannot do new drug development my best chance is to do trials of treatments on myself and see if anything helps. Sadly the previous treatment I tried made me worse. There is no way to predict these outcomes in advance since we only have a basic understanding of my immune system problems.
Click to expand...

I have been doing this for over 5 years revamping, modifying, learning to get the best approach out there for medical professionals and their patients. Again everything is individualized. The biggest advantage I have is being in the medical community and access to the best names in the field to reference and learn from. Its an ever changing field where being a medical professional's research tool comes in handy since there is not enough time in the day for them as is. The secret is knowing the pathology of the issue the person is dealing with along with the help of their medical professionals to allow further testing to be conducted to explore further if needed. As I have learned, slow and steady. Their are paradoxical cases out there which I have ran across which throw medical professionals for a loop. Having been on both side of the coin it makes things alot easier since I have been through majority of things already.
 
I could sure use something for the gut! I am nearly certain I have some intestinal/ GI issues going on.

I have AT MINIMUM 5-6 bowl movements a day...typically not solid. Is that normal for anyone else? I do not have a gall bladder--as it was removed when I had liver cancer.
 
The Matrix said:
I have been doing this for over 5 years revamping, modifying, learning to get the best approach out there for medical professionals and their patients. Again everything is individualized. The biggest advantage I have is being in the medical community and access to the best names in the field to reference and learn from. Its an ever changing field where being a medical professional's research tool comes in handy since there is not enough time in the day for them as is. The secret is knowing the pathology of the issue the person is dealing with along with the help of their medical professionals to allow further testing to be conducted to explore further if needed. As I have learned, slow and steady. Their are paradoxical cases out there which I have ran across which throw medical professionals for a loop. Having been on both side of the coin it makes things alot easier since I have been through majority of things already.
Click to expand...

My biggest advantage is being in the medical research community. I have access to things even doctors don't have. I have a lab and am connected to the biotech industry. Nevertheless, it is still very hard to make progress in understanding a novel disease especially if your funding is limited. Research is expensive.
 
hitest said:
My biggest advantage is being in the medical research community. I have access to things even doctors don't have. I have a lab and am connected to the biotech industry. Nevertheless, it is still very hard to make progress in understanding a novel disease especially if your funding is limited. Research is expensive.
Click to expand...

Research is out there already just have to connect the dots and how it is integrated. This takes lots of time and experimentation (on my self before introducing to other medical professionals.)
 
lboston said:
I could sure use something for the gut! I am nearly certain I have some intestinal/ GI issues going on.

I have AT MINIMUM 5-6 bowl movements a day...typically not solid. Is that normal for anyone else? I do not have a gall bladder--as it was removed when I had liver cancer.
Click to expand...

For sure this is not normal. Obviously you have a significant history of health issues. Cancer treatment is usually hard on the gut. It may be, however, that your gallbladder removal is more related to this. The gallbladder is needed for processing certain fats. Perhaps you can switch your diet to medium chain triglycerides which do not require bile to process.
 
The Matrix said:
Research is out there already just have to connect the dots and how it is integrated. This takes lots of time and experimentation (on my self before introducing to other medical professionals.)
Click to expand...

Research may be 10 or even 20 years ahead of clinical practice but there is still far more that we don't know than we do know when it comes to human health and that goes double for personalized medicine.

I'm happy for you that you seem to have a satisfactory solution for your ailments albeit still requiring quite a large number of ongoing treatments. I only have a vague idea of what your final conclusions were and how you arrived at them and what else you may be doing besides the treatments you have posted. I can still say with confidence that my root problems are different and it is unlikely that you have ever seen someone with the same root problem. I do not believe that clinical diagnostic tests exist that would get at my problem but some research assays might be able to do so. I know that you have recommended testing from Genova (specifically Nutreval). None of these tests get at the immunological functions that are likely to be relevant for me.
 
hitest said:
Research may be 10 or even 20 years ahead of clinical practice but there is still far more that we don't know than we do know when it comes to human health and that goes double for personalized medicine.

I'm happy for you that you seem to have a satisfactory solution for your ailments albeit still requiring quite a large number of ongoing treatments. I only have a vague idea of what your final conclusions were and how you arrived at them and what else you may be doing besides the treatments you have posted. I can still say with confidence that my root problems are different and it is unlikely that you have ever seen someone with the same root problem. I do not believe that clinical diagnostic tests exist that would get at my problem but some research assays might be able to do so. I know that you have recommended testing from Genova (specifically Nutreval). None of these tests get at the immunological functions that are likely to be relevant for me.
Click to expand...

Neuroscience cytokine testing should help to shed some light. :)
When you have nightly conversations with one of the most intellectual people when it comes to health, you tend to get a greater insight into things.
 
lboston said:
I could sure use something for the gut! I am nearly certain I have some intestinal/ GI issues going on.

I have AT MINIMUM 5-6 bowl movements a day...typically not solid. Is that normal for anyone else? I do not have a gall bladder--as it was removed when I had liver cancer.
Click to expand...

You have a hard time processing fats which can lead to runs. There are many other factors as well which need to be addressed.
 
when my gallbladder was removed over 10 years I had the same symptoms. those symptoms subsided about 2 years after removal. my doc at the time had me take Metamucil crackers or cookies twice a aday for a few years to absorb the bile which caused the runs. also the nexium/prilosec pills I was taking made the runs a whole lot worse.
 
fanzdslpwr1 said:
when my gallbladder was removed over 10 years I had the same symptoms. those symptoms subsided about 2 years after removal. my doc at the time had me take Metamucil crackers or cookies twice a aday for a few years to absorb the bile which caused the runs. also the nexium/prilosec pills I was taking made the runs a whole lot worse.
Click to expand...

Then you wonder why majority of our health issues are from Dr's putting people on drugs which treat one thing then cause issues with the next. I see your cases on a weekly basis and majority of them have lack of stomach acid not too much and this invites incressed pathogenic overgrowth of bacteria and yeast. Heal GI tract provide the proper enyzmatic reactions in the stomach to kill off the bacteria and your bowels over time will rebalance them selves. Your immune system is being compromsied, due to trama in the GI tract as 100% of people out there are dealing with. We are all toxic in one way or another..
 
The Matrix said:
Neuroscience cytokine testing should help to shed some light. :)
When you have nightly conversations with one of the most intellectual people when it comes to health, you tend to get a greater insight into things.
Click to expand...

I had far more extensive cytokine testing done through a Stanford research study. I pasted the results below. The value is the number of standard deviations relative to controls. You will see that I am low across the board - sometimes very low. It is very hard to make sense of these results. I think it mostly reflects a dysregulated lymphocyte compartment which I already know about. How many patients you have seen with very low T cell and B cell counts?

[TABLE="width: 166"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63, width: 94"]CD40Ligand[/TD]
[TD="width: 72, align: right"]-1.22126[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]ENA78[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.88751[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]EOTAXIN[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.03174[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]FGFb[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.6857[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]G-CSF[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.13656[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]GM-CSF[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.06967[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]GRO ALPHA[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.75066[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]HGF[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.96533[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]ICAM-1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.40383[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IFN-a[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.55409[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IFN-b[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.31398[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IFN-G[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-3.65397[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-10[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.45269[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-12-P70[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.18689[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-12P40[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.33684[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-13[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.18631[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-15[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.45661[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-17[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-3.1585[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-17F[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.14049[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-1a[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.23659[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-1B[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.04665[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-1RA[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.58281[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.07379[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.7628[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-3.46133[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.72077[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.22372[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.6809[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IP10[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.59126[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]LEPTIN[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.82598[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]LIF[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.94997[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]M-CSF[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.29409[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]MCP-1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.67416[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]MCP-3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.14027[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]MIG[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.26119[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]MIP-1B[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.29534[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]MIP1a[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.71704[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]NGF[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.2904[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]PAI-1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.06461[/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD="class: xl63"]PDGFBB[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.54418[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]RANTES[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-4.02119[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]Resistin[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.51161[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]SCF[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.2217[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]sFAS ligand[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.22241[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]TGF-a[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.84949[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]TGF-b[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-3.7906[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]TNF-A[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.44415[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]TNF-B[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.9224[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]Trail[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.75439[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]V-CAM-1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.28552[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]VEGF[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.13115[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
hitest said:
I had far more extensive cytokine testing done through a Stanford research study. I pasted the results below. The value is the number of standard deviations relative to controls. You will see that I am low across the board - sometimes very low. It is very hard to make sense of these results. I think it mostly reflects a dysregulated lymphocyte compartment which I already know about. How many patients you have seen with very low T cell and B cell counts?

[TABLE="width: 166"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63, width: 94"]CD40Ligand[/TD]
[TD="width: 72, align: right"]-1.22126[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]ENA78[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.88751[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]EOTAXIN[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.03174[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]FGFb[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.6857[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]G-CSF[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.13656[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]GM-CSF[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.06967[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]GRO ALPHA[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.75066[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]HGF[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.96533[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]ICAM-1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.40383[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IFN-a[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.55409[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IFN-b[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.31398[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IFN-G[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-3.65397[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-10[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.45269[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-12-P70[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.18689[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-12P40[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.33684[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-13[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.18631[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-15[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.45661[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-17[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-3.1585[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-17F[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.14049[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-1a[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.23659[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-1B[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.04665[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-1RA[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.58281[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.07379[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.7628[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-3.46133[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.72077[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.22372[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IL-8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.6809[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]IP10[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.59126[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]LEPTIN[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.82598[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]LIF[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.94997[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]M-CSF[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.29409[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]MCP-1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.67416[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]MCP-3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.14027[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]MIG[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.26119[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]MIP-1B[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.29534[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]MIP1a[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.71704[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]NGF[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.2904[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]PAI-1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.06461[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]PDGFBB[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.54418[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]RANTES[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-4.02119[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]Resistin[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.51161[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]SCF[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.2217[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]sFAS ligand[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.22241[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]TGF-a[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.84949[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]TGF-b[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-3.7906[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]TNF-A[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.44415[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]TNF-B[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-0.9224[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]Trail[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.75439[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]V-CAM-1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-1.28552[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl63"]VEGF[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-2.13115[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...

Need ranges..
What about being toxic or some kind of gene mutation. I need to know what areas have been explored: mitochondrion, neurology, endocrine,epigenetic, mutations, heavy metals, environmental hyper sensitivity, detoxifcation pathways. Need to look at all the potential blocks.
 
The Matrix said:
Need ranges..
What about being toxic or some kind of gene mutation. I need to know what areas have been explored: mitochondrion, neurology, endocrine,epigenetic, mutations, heavy metals, environmental hyper sensitivity, detoxifcation pathways. Need to look at all the potential blocks.
Click to expand...

This is a research assay - not a clinical one - there are no ranges. That is why I reported the results as standard deviations. You can use your judgment about whether being lower than for example 99.85% (~3 SD) of people is abnormal or not.

You omitted immunology from you list. That is where I think the action is but this is where functional testing is so limited.

I'm curious what you think you can do for mutations. This is relevant for all the blocks but once again very little is available clinically. I can and have done more myself.
 
hitest said:
This is a research assay - not a clinical one - there are no ranges. That is why I reported the results as standard deviations. You can use your judgment about whether being lower than for example 99.85% (~3 SD) of people is abnormal or not.

You omitted immunology from you list. That is where I think the action is but this is where functional testing is so limited.

I'm curious what you think you can do for mutations. This is relevant for all the blocks but once again very little is available clinically. I can and have done more myself.
Click to expand...

Need to identify them
VDR
MTHFR
SOUX
MS
CBS
GSH

Immunnology is linked in to all the above since epigenics and nutragenomics drives it.
immune system is the core to any recover program, hormones are just an expression of it.
 
The Matrix said:
Need to identify them
VDR
MTHFR
SOUX
MS
CBS
GSH

Immunnology is linked in to all the above since epigenics and nutragenomics drives it.
immune system is the core to any recover program, hormones are just an expression of it.
Click to expand...

We have ~30000 genes and you have suggested only a handful that happen to be clinically available. I have already looked at about 10000 of my genes. The problem you run into with a more comprehensive genetic scan is that even when you find a mutation that looks significant very little may be known about that gene.
 
hitest said:
We have ~30000 genes and you have suggested only a handful that happen to be clinically available. I have already looked at about 10000 of my genes. The problem you run into with a more comprehensive genetic scan is that even when you find a mutation that looks significant very little may be known about that gene.
Click to expand...

I have learned not to look at disease, look at host in genernal.
what about mitochondrion abnormalities or dysfunction?
We can alter gene expressions to a certain degree. This is how cancer is being put into remission. Many people are doing it with out chemotherapy.
 
The Matrix said:
I have learned not to look at disease, look at host in genernal.
what about mitochondrion abnormalities or dysfunction?
We can alter gene expressions to a certain degree. This is how cancer is being put into remission. Many people are doing it with out chemotherapy.
Click to expand...

I certainly appreciate wanting to turn over every stone. Unfortunately, one must be practical and narrow down the diagnostic space to the most likely candidates. My symptoms are not consistent with any mitochondrial disease I am aware of so this avenue hasn't been pursued directly apart from what may have been covered by the genetic scan.

As I said before, the testing that would be most relevant would be lymphocyte and monocyte function testing but this is not available clinically.
 
shbg82 said:
Can LDN (Low Dose Naltrexone) be used to increase lymphocytes?
Click to expand...

There are no good treatments for increasing lymphocytes in deficient patients with unknown cause. IL-2 works for some but this is a very nasty treatment and the benefit is usually transient and weak. IL-7 has been in some research trials but it is not available and unclear how useful it would be. LDN has been suggested to help for cancer patients and I think Naltrexone may also has some potentiating effects for HIV treatment but these are different cases. Thymopentin is also supposed to help some people. This is not available but I was able to get it for free from the pharmaceutical company in Europe. Sadly it did not help me. You have to understand the reason why the counts are low.
 
hitest said:
I certainly appreciate wanting to turn over every stone. Unfortunately, one must be practical and narrow down the diagnostic space to the most likely candidates. My symptoms are not consistent with any mitochondrial disease I am aware of so this avenue hasn't been pursued directly apart from what may have been covered by the genetic scan.

As I said before, the testing that would be most relevant would be lymphocyte and monocyte function testing but this is not available clinically.
Click to expand...

Neuroscience has it whole profile...
 
The Matrix said:
Neuroscience has it whole profile...
Click to expand...

The tests that Neuroscience has that are most relevant and I have not already done include:
ISA 1
LSA+Treg (actually I have done most of this too)

These are too generic - won't get at the root nor will they provide actionable information. Their apoptosis test is useful for monitoring only. They have nothing for monocytes.
 
hitest said:
The tests that Neuroscience has that are most relevant and I have not already done include:
ISA 1
LSA+Treg (actually I have done most of this too)

These are too generic - won't get at the root nor will they provide actionable information. Their apoptosis test is useful for monitoring only. They have nothing for monocytes.
Click to expand...

I know a guy who may be able to help shed some light on this Dr Peter Rouse. He's one medical resource I highly value
 
The Matrix said:
I know a guy who may be able to help shed some light on this Dr Peter Rouse. He's one medical resource I highly value
Click to expand...

He was also on super human radio not too long ago giving some advice on this very subject. Go to super human radio site and look for it in the archives. To sum things up though he said to take huge doses of probiotics before bed. Take some glutamine. Huge doses meaning like 100billion of about 10 non competing colonies. Pretty expensive, but if I works it's priceless.
 
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