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Incorporating Erase into PCT

handcannon7 said:
Dont see the point of using an AI if you are using nolva, you dont want to totally kill your estrogen levels EVER, estrogen isnt a bad thing only high levels of it are what you would be worried about. Also a test booster and an AI is not even close to as good as something like nolva for restarting your own production because a test booster and AI dont increase your LH.
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SERMs and AIs have completely different mechanisms. The point of using an AI with a SERM is to reverse taper them. As one goes down the other goes up. Many people have used this method for years with extreme success
 
handcannon7 said:
Learn something new everyday didn't know they had effect on LH but I'm talking specifically about nolva which does lower estrogen does it not?
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No, a SERM just modulates the estrogen receptor which can actually raise blood levels of estradiol which is why an AI is so important in PCT. When you come off of a SERM or reduce it there is a high levels of estrogen in your blood.

Common misconception
 
handcannon7 said:
Learn something new everyday didn't know they had effect on LH but I'm talking specifically about nolva which does lower estrogen does it not?
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Yup, they do. Nolvadex occupies the receptor binding site for estrogen but does nothing to inhibit circulating levels.

There was a whole theory in regards to this before where users would use an AI inverse to a SERM dosage so when they came off the SERM and estrogen was free to bind the effect would be lower.
 
nattydisaster said:
SERMs and AIs have completely different mechanisms. The point of using an AI with a SERM is to reverse taper them. As one goes down the other goes up. Many people have used this method for years with extreme success
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^^ :)
 
Reverse taper always works, i would just continue Erase at 3@day until you run out since you'll have some extra at the end of 4 weeks.
 
kevinhy said:
Reverse taper always works, i would just continue Erase at 3@day until you run out since you'll have some extra at the end of 4 weeks.
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So basically either way is fine? Wats best way?
 
Daddydee said:
So basically either way is fine? Wats best way?
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there really isnt a "best way". Just stick to the way you have it laid out and you will be fine.
 
DAA doesn't need to be tapered, keep it constant.

It is the SERM and AI that you can run tapered inversely. With DAA there is no set cycle length so run it throughout your PCT at the same dose.
 
bdcc said:
DAA doesn't need to be tapered, keep it constant.

It is the SERM and AI that you can run tapered inversely. With DAA there is no set cycle length so run it throughout your PCT at the same dose.
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Constant for how long? Until finished?
 
Keep the dose the same throughout your PCT.

If your PCT is four weeks long, dose DAA for four weeks. :)
 
That would be fine as well. No reason the 'natural' hormonal element of your PCT can't extend longer.
 
kansui said:
I like to dose DAA for 8 weeks... Reap the benefits for a little longer.
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The company that put out the D-Aspartic-Acid studies recommended men take it for 90 days, so ill assume its safe up to that point. Eight weeks is probably the best option in my opinion.
 
kansui said:
I like to dose DAA for 8 weeks... Reap the benefits for a little longer.
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Yea thats why I asked , I want to run it longer but don't want to over do it , is there any chance for rebound or any other sides from DAA ran 8wks?
 
Daddydee said:
Yea thats why I asked , I want to run it longer but don't want to over do it , is there any chance for rebound or any other sides from DAA ran 8wks?
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Not that I have experienced. This is the first time I'm using an AI with it as well.
 
Daddydee said:
Yea thats why I asked , I want to run it longer but don't want to over do it , is there any chance for rebound or any other sides from DAA ran 8wks?
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Nope, you will be fine.
 
Is it that important to use armidex on cycle, while instead using aromasin off cycle, post PCT? (or vice versa for that matter) Im hesitant to get both.
 
TheMaharaja said:
Is it that important to use armidex on cycle, while instead using aromasin off cycle, post PCT? (or vice versa for that matter) Im hesitant to get both.
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What?
 
nattydisaster said:
Erase is a stronger AI than formestane, and you dont have to wipe it on your skin, so go with Erase.

20/20/10/10 vs 40/40/20/20 is based on the suppressiveness of your cycle. Since you were just on epi i would opt for the lower dose
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Where does PMag fit in on the suppressiveness scale? Would Nolva at 20/20/10/10 be sufficient for a 4 week cycle?
 
fro0sh said:
Where does PMag fit in on the suppressiveness scale? Would Nolva at 20/20/10/10 be sufficient for a 4 week cycle?
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Also, i'll be running pmag solo so should I just make it a 6 week cycle? If i did would it affect the length of PCT? Thnx.
 
Just not clear how to use the Erase and Nolva ,after a 6 week cycle.

pct:

Nolva: 20/20/10/10
Erase: 1/1 /2 /3

or

Nolva: 20/20/10/10
Erase: /1/3/3/ ...

Erase for 8 weeks Nolva for 4 weeks.
 
It is hard to say for sure because it would depend on what you ran, your estrogen level post cycle etc.

I will PM Natty and Kevin and see what doses they have used to give you a starting point.
 
nattydisaster said:
Everyone will give you a different answer based on what they believe. I would read the first post and the whole thread and follow something someone else has posted
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yes i see, i was reading all the 5 pages and i like it,

i just dont want to use more thn 4 weeks the nolva for that 6 week epi cycle, i think that is enought

and yes i seen erase and nolva works, just that was not clear me because nolva serm and erase is doing the same estrogen things.

i want ran erase for 8 weeks with testboosters and daa

so thn is good ran erase and nolva start on the begining of the pct?

nolva:20/20/10/10
erase:02/02/03/03/03 or its ok with 3caps? up to 8 weeks
testboosters+daa

but after the pct i want anabeta but i'm done 8 weeks with erase on pct what now
 
SERMs and AIs have very different MOAs. Don't confuse them, a lot of people do.

That should be covered on one of the pages in this thread. Time to read it again lol. :)

Your plan looks fine, I don't really understand your last question. You have finished 8 weeks on Erase already?

AnaBeta you can run through PCT or run after. It is very effective so you can pretty much use it at any time and benefit from it (including on cycle according to some recent feedback).
 
bdcc said:
SERMs and AIs have very different MOAs. Don't confuse them, a lot of people do.

That should be covered on one of the pages in this thread. Time to read it again lol. :)

Your plan looks fine, I don't really understand your last question. You have finished 8 weeks on Erase already?

AnaBeta you can run through PCT or run after. It is very effective so you can pretty much use it at any time and benefit from it (including on cycle according to some recent feedback).
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rolling
 
bdcc said:
SERMs and AIs have very different MOAs. Don't confuse them, a lot of people do.

That should be covered on one of the pages in this thread. Time to read it again lol. :)

Your plan looks fine, I don't really understand your last question. You have finished 8 weeks on Erase already?

AnaBeta you can run through PCT or run after. It is very effective so you can pretty much use it at any time and benefit from it (including on cycle according to some recent feedback).
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No i was not finished now 8 weeks on Erase, i'm just using now AT2 Erase and OEP,
On pct i use Erase for 8 weeks
If i use AnaBeta too on the pct and after pct i think that gonna be massive.
 
Hix said:
No i was not finished now 8 weeks on Erase, i'm just using now AT2 Erase and OEP,
On pct i use Erase for 8 weeks
If i use AnaBeta too on the pct and after pct i think that gonna be massive.
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So you've already done the cycle with Erase in PCT weeks 1-8? Or you're using that in combination with AT2 and OEP during PCT?

Anabeta is definitely a great addition to any pct
 
kevinhy said:
So you've already done the cycle with Erase in PCT weeks 1-8? Or you're using that in combination with AT2 and OEP during PCT?

Anabeta is definitely a great addition to any pct
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I ran now AT2 Erase and OEP till end of decembar,.

Starting the 6 week Epi cycle in january 2012.
 
Hix said:
I ran now AT2 Erase and OEP till end of decembar,.

Starting the 6 week Epi cycle in january 2012.
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Oh okay, that sounds good then.

I personally always run an AI full dose all the way through PCT.

So to include it into any PCT it would be:

Erase - 3/3/3/3

My thoughts are that during a cycle (even with non-aromatizing androgens) estrogen increases through various mechanisms (adrenal hormone aromatization, increased aromatase expression and production, etc). This means that coming off your E levels are already high, and taking a SERM just occupies the receptor site so estrogen cant exert its effects (particularly the negative feedback). This causes testosterone levels to rise.

AIs (while also mitigating estrogen) work in a different way, and they are also shown in scientific literature to increase gonadotropin levels and testosterone.

The two in concert seems to be the most effective measure towards normalizing hormone levels as soon as possible.

Another reason why i would run Erase at the full dosage throughout the entire PCT is that it mitigates the catabolic hormone cortisol.
 
kevinhy said:
Oh okay, that sounds good then.

I personally always run an AI full dose all the way through PCT.

So to include it into any PCT it would be:

Erase - 3/3/3/3

My thoughts are that during a cycle (even with non-aromatizing androgens) estrogen increases through various mechanisms (adrenal hormone aromatization, increased aromatase expression and production, etc). This means that coming off your E levels are already high, and taking a SERM just occupies the receptor site so estrogen cant exert its effects (particularly the negative feedback). This causes testosterone levels to rise.

AIs (while also mitigating estrogen) work in a different way, and they are also shown in scientific literature to increase gonadotropin levels and testosterone.

The two in concert seems to be the most effective measure towards normalizing hormone levels as soon as possible.

Another reason why i would run Erase at the full dosage throughout the entire PCT is that it mitigates the catabolic hormone cortisol.
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that means, erase and serm can be used on the very first day on pct.
i'll use the serm for 4 and erase for 8 weeks
nice, cheers kevinhy
 
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