Nutricion store guy recomends this stack for mass building (prohormones) good?

What i mean is "do YOU know anyone like urself (20) who has used PH's"???

I really just dnt get WHY u think u need them right now? " O i wanna get big fast"....Consider this aside fom ur hormone levels MAYBE getting ****ed up. If you start PH's and are feeling really jacked in the gym, with 2yrs lifting, and are doing some shoulder presses. Ur feeling like a machine so u grab a crazy weight and put it up like 3-4xs then...SNAP! u tear ur rotator cuff or scapula b/c you haven't "layed down" a solid enough foundation for that muscle and now ur set back 2-3yrs......Does this sound stupid? well if it does then do more research b/c it happens ALL the time.
 
FYI some people dont stop growing until their early 20's, so you could potentially be stunting your own growth. Hormone supplementation can cause your epiphyseal plates to close earlier. This alone should be motivation enough to stay clear from them for a few more years...
 
DUDE, i told you in post 24 what it would it do to you and rodja just told you again. ENDOCRINE SYSTEM.......GOOGLE it!!!
 
Rodja said:
BC you're too young and inexperienced. You have no idea what a PCT is and don't have a consistent diet. How many times do I have to say it!?!?!?!?!?
Click to expand...

This bro. Listen to the man.
 
Rodja said:
The reason it can damage your endocrine and reproductive systems is because you're too young and not fully matured. BTW, this is why we're saying you want to be spoon-fed information; this is basic information that you could figure out on your own in 15 minutes with Google.
Click to expand...

This is more of type of info I was looking for. I learned all the stuff I do know about other supps and bbing eating training nstuff on my own. Reason I was asking is in curious and was at work so couldn't really effectively google.
 
Rodja said:
Let's put it this way: would you enter a professional MMA fight with just a few weeks of training? No because you'd get you head bashed in by your opponent. That's why young and inexperienced is bad with hormones bc you don't know what the **** you're doing.
Click to expand...

Yes but sometimes it takes getting your head bashed in to learn....Of course you could always be safe and well prepared, but that is no fun right?
 
Unless your 5'5 and 175lbs ripped...your tiny. Youve been working out for 2 years and your small and weak. You can progress just as fast if you focus on diet and training. I decieded "hey screw the advice ill juice when im 17". The result was a psychological addiction, ok results, and a mental rollercoaster to hell. Im 20 now and I dont weight as much but im way stronger and healthier since i started focusing on diet and training. Also im now on TRT thanks to abusing hormones as a young age. You are an idiot, go screw your self over and get ed.

I see you have very poor comprehension skills so hears what can happen at a young age:
Screwing your natural production up for good since your not done growing and end up going on HRT
Mental addiction bc your to young to deal with mental aspect of hormone usage, and yes there is one
 
now im irritated that you didnt listen to what i had to say in my long ass paragraph haha.

like i said, as well as everyone else... being 20 doesnt mean your body is finished maturing (even if you have finished puberty, hit your max height, etc), messing with your hormone levels at this point will likely mess you up in the long run.
 
I agree with everyone. Resort to PHs when you're at your physiological max or hit a plateau after a while. Once you can get a solid diet down then you can think about adding stuff.

If you can gain 1lb a week by eating then do that. PHs dont do much more than that. Also if you grow too fast you risk tearing ligaments and tendons.

At 175lbs your lifts are pretty weak. Get stronger naturally. At 175 you should be benching 270+ and squatting close to 400 before you even think about it.

I was doing that at 19 at your size
 
jamesm11 said:
I agree with everyone. Resort to PHs when you're at your physiological max or hit a plateau after a while. Once you can get a solid diet down then you can think about adding stuff.

If you can gain 1lb a week by eating then do that. PHs dont do much more than that. Also if you grow too fast you risk tearing ligaments and tendons.

At 175lbs your lifts are pretty weak. Get stronger naturally. At 175 you should be benching 270+ and squatting close to 400 before you even think about it.

I was doing that at 19 at your size
Click to expand...

Just curious are you like 5"2?
 
jamesm11 said:
No, why would you ask me if I'm short?
Click to expand...

Bc he's looking for more reasons to cycle. If he was really doing his research, he'd be researching SERMs, AIs, cycle supports, etc. Instead, however, he' wasting his time in this BS thread that he started.
 
Rodja said:
A lot of people think that it's easier to lift higher poundages if you're short.
Click to expand...

At 170 I don't think I could bench 270. At 6"1. With my long arms, small chest. I don't think it's possible. 170 at 5"2 is ALOT more muscle than at 6"1. Hence, why I asked. Those stats seem really high for 170.
 
Yeah I'm 5'10" and was then.

Eat, lift, sleep. Granted I am naturally strong and always have been.

It is frustrating, but the long term effects could be ED, infertility, hormonal imbalance, etc. It's not really worth it.

Is 5-10 extra lbs worth possible permanent damage? If so, go ahead and hopefully people will help you. But seriously think this through.

It's very tempting but is it really worth it if you can make such great gains at 4k calories?
 
Nistau said:
But if I can make better gains busting butt eating a lot AND taking hormones. Why not?
Click to expand...

Your being ignorant...You ask for help and u get it but than question the answer as if u know what u talking about....Dude ur young theres alot of supps u can take if thats wat u want...But Rest, Diet and hardwork is what really pays off....Trust me (us)....U keep being that way people wont help u out and ignore ur threads
 
Gosh, so much back and forth... Oh being young and careless, I remember those days. It seems as we try and try and try to explain but it just doesn't stick...

But you're young... So you're probably into the whole Fast and Furious huh? :lol: Let's use a nice metaphor here then.

You see, you're on your 20's. You have a lot of gas still in the tank. You're running with a turbo installed on your engine already, all you have to do is tap that. You can't have the turbo kick in until you're at 3000 - 4000 RPM. Consider that your daily caloric intake. You're not gonna hit the turbo until you're over 4000 calories a day. Once you reach that, you'll be growing a lot faster and more consistently, but you need to get there, you can't just expect for it to kick in automatically without you pushing yourself hard enough. If you hit that turbo you'll probably be going a lot faster than older guys who just can't seem to have that kick start.

Now lets talk about hormones... They are your NOS. Now, would you trigger your NOS when you're at 2000 RPM just to get you to the 4000 - 5000 range? I think not... Now, what's the point of wasting your time and money with NOS to get where you would be just with good nutrition, training and experience? Seems like a waste to me, how about to you? Not to mention that by utilizing the NOS will hinder the usefulness of the turbo, and once you run out of NOS what's gonna happen? You're gonna get right back where you were before, lagging and with no turbo to help you out.

Now lastly, if you were to utilize your NOS right now, while you're still young and unprepared, your body will grow resistant to steroids, and when you actually may need hormones in the future, your NOS tank will be empty and you won't get as big of a kick out of it.

Now, with that, can you start to develop some understanding as to WHY everyone is saying what they are? :lol:
 
Gosh, so much back and forth... Oh being young and careless, I remember those days. It seems as we try and try and try to explain but it just doesn't stick...

But you're young... So you're probably into the whole Fast and Furious huh? Let's use a nice metaphor here then.

You see, you're on your 20's. You have a lot of gas still in the tank. You're running with a turbo installed on your engine already, all you have to do is tap that. You can't have the turbo kick in until you're at 3000 - 4000 RPM. Consider that your daily caloric intake. You're not gonna hit the turbo until you're over 4000 calories a day. Once you reach that, you'll be growing a lot faster and more consistently, but you need to get there, you can't just expect for it to kick in automatically without you pushing yourself hard enough. If you hit that turbo you'll probably be going a lot faster than older guys who just can't seem to have that kick start.

Now lets talk about hormones... They are your NOS. Now, would you trigger your NOS when you're at 2000 RPM just to get you to the 4000 - 5000 range? I think not... Now, what's the point of wasting your time and money with NOS to get where you would be just with good nutrition, training and experience? Seems like a waste to me, how about to you? Not to mention that by utilizing the NOS will hinder the usefulness of the turbo, and once you run out of NOS what's gonna happen? You're gonna get right back where you were before, lagging and with no turbo to help you out.

Now lastly, if you were to utilize your NOS right now, while you're still young and unprepared, your body will grow resistant to steroids, and when you actually may need hormones in the future, your NOS tank will be empty and you won't get as big of a kick out of it.

Now, with that, can you start to develop some understanding as to WHY everyone is saying what they are?
Click to expand...

dude u just Mind ****ed me with all that.lol
 
wow, i cant believe i just spent 5 min reading this thread. OP, listen to the people advising you. YOU ARE NOT READY


But if you want to get huge go buy a bottle of m drol and milk thistle. have fun, you will need to see a doctor a few months afterwards to fix your dick.






but you ll be huge so who cares..??
 
gymrat827 said:
wow, i cant believe i just spent 5 min reading this thread. OP, listen to the people advising you. YOU ARE NOT READY

But if you want to get huge go buy a bottle of m drol and milk thistle. have fun, you will need to see a doctor a few months afterwards to fix your dick.

but you ll be huge so who cares..??
Click to expand...

K anyways. The only reason I was arguin is because "your too young and inexperienced" is extremely arbitrary and vague. It was only in the last couple posts anyone actually gave any reasons to the assertions. And as for being spoon fed ubfortmation I didn't even come here for a "should I do them or not?" thread. I was curious about this stack. And it evolved into a don't do it thread.
 
Nistau said:
K anyways. The only reason I was arguin is because "your too young and inexperienced" is extremely arbitrary and vague. It was only in the last couple posts anyone actually gave any reasons to the assertions. And as for being spoon fed ubfortmation I didn't even come here for a "should I do them or not?" thread. I was curious about this stack. And it evolved into a don't do it thread.
Click to expand...


READ THIS






Am I old enough?

Yes if you're over 24, No if you're under. You run the risks of premature closing of growth plates which means you won't get any taller and your shoulders won't get wider, etc. if you use them too young. Your endocrine system is also at a vital stage in your life, which should incidentally provide you with plenty of natural testosterone anyway!

Of course there are other considerations such as training experience of the individual. For example, it would be unwise for a 25 year old who has been training only a few months to want to use steroids. Their training and diet knowledge are likely to be limited (these should be 100% in check to make 'proper use' of a steroid cycle). Not only that, but there will be massive potential for natural gains, without the need to even think about steroids!

Furthermore, cycling before the age of 2024-5 will put you at a high risk of temporary to permanent damage to your HPTA, andropause, TRT, erectile dysfunction, and low libido. Your hormones should not be tampered with while still in the stage of maturation. Use your already naturally high test levels to your advantage.

You should have a significant amount of training under your belt (4-5 years at least) before any Steroids are considered. This will not only allow you to toy around with a few diet and training methods (possibly eliminating the reason for cycling in the first place) but will also you adequate time to let your CNS, bones/joints/tendons/muscles to mature so that you will have the proper foundation for when you begin your cycle. Cycling on a frame that is delicate and inexperienced runs many risks including temporary to permanent injury to any of the above mentioned. Bodybuilding isn't a sprint, and there is no rush to jump on steroids and get big. Transforming the body takes time, patience, dedication and discipline. There are no short cuts!

Diet is probably the most important and vital tool is growing and gaining muscle/shedding fat. With a strong diet as your backbone, the steroids will not live up to their hype. No matter what your doses and duration of steroids you are taking, it just won't be worth the time and money spent without the sufficient calories and macros behind it. The 2 literally go hand in hand. A lack of diet will provide a lack of results, even with anabolic support. Having this experience will make cycling in the future easier and much more enjoyable, believe me.
 
I started injecting test+tren+deca when I was still a fetus...pussies.
 
bla55 said:
Gosh, so much back and forth... Oh being young and careless, I remember those days. It seems as we try and try and try to explain but it just doesn't stick...

But you're young... So you're probably into the whole Fast and Furious huh? :lol: Let's use a nice metaphor here then.

You see, you're on your 20's. You have a lot of gas still in the tank. You're running with a turbo installed on your engine already, all you have to do is tap that. You can't have the turbo kick in until you're at 3000 - 4000 RPM. Consider that your daily caloric intake. You're not gonna hit the turbo until you're over 4000 calories a day. Once you reach that, you'll be growing a lot faster and more consistently, but you need to get there, you can't just expect for it to kick in automatically without you pushing yourself hard enough. If you hit that turbo you'll probably be going a lot faster than older guys who just can't seem to have that kick start.

Now lets talk about hormones... They are your NOS. Now, would you trigger your NOS when you're at 2000 RPM just to get you to the 4000 - 5000 range? I think not... Now, what's the point of wasting your time and money with NOS to get where you would be just with good nutrition, training and experience? Seems like a waste to me, how about to you? Not to mention that by utilizing the NOS will hinder the usefulness of the turbo, and once you run out of NOS what's gonna happen? You're gonna get right back where you were before, lagging and with no turbo to help you out.

Now lastly, if you were to utilize your NOS right now, while you're still young and unprepared, your body will grow resistant to steroids, and when you actually may need hormones in the future, your NOS tank will be empty and you won't get as big of a kick out of it.

Now, with that, can you start to develop some understanding as to WHY everyone is saying what they are? :lol:
Click to expand...
prettty good analogy bro
 
So i was bored and read through this thread, and one analogy comes to mind: It's like giving a gun to a 6 year old. Sure the 6 year old can SHOOT the gun, but he's not ready to handle the responsibility of shooting said gun. They have not put the time in to learn about the gun and what it means to kill something or someone.

What we have here is just another kid who hasn't earned his stripes trying to take a shortcut, which will inevitably lead back to where he was to start with.
 
your 6'1" @ 175??? holy crap your skin and bones man. you have plenty of room to gain naturally. Rodja has held in his temper long enough. you should be thanking him for putting up with your ignorance. Here are some reasons (kind you want) on why NOT to take steroids.

1.) many oral steroids are toxic to your liver. They can harm many other organs in your body. They increase blood pressure, increase heart rate, potential for heart failure, screw up your endocrine system...etc These side effects can last for LIFE. you probably will not see these side effects immediately. But one day you will pay. Now if you did a mild PH with proper PCT and Cycle Support, I wouldnt feel that bad for you. But you obviously do not know what your doing.

2.) Do you want to be on HRT or TRT for life? getting shots weekly because a 20 year old cant product his own testosterone? How do you think the girls will like that? "yeah even though your naked and on top of me, I still cant get it up".

3.) Acne and gyno.....you probably dont care about acne so i wont speak on that....but there is a VERY REAL chance you will get gyno while using steroids. do you wanna be able to milk yourself? if so, jump on your cycle and take superdrol as PCT. (totally kidding)

4.) you dont know what a real PCT is or why you even have to have a PCT. Proper PCT is Nolva or Clomid. Both are illegal. Since you dont even know what they are, I doubt u know where to get a SERM. This right here is enough evidence to tell me you are not ready.

When i have done a cycle in the past, I gather my PCT and Cycle Support products BEFORE i purchase my actual PH/Steroid.

Sure taking steroids will get you big, but once your off of your cycle, if you dont have a good PCT lined up and you arent eating/training right, you will lose most if not all of your gains. at your size, you can take natural products and get bigger. DIET AND TRAINING are going to get you to your goals.

I HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR YOU: Why do you want to take a cycle? You will probably put on 12 pounds then lose 6 for a net gain of 6 pounds as well as risking so many health issues and potential life threatening issues for down the road. You can just eat your butt off and train as hard as you can, take the staple supplements and reach 6 pounds in a month or so. Think about it before you start.
 
Last thing: you know how I know you arent ready? you cant spell NUTRITION correctly, which is the most important part of bodybuilding, no matter what your goals are.
 
Okay, just curious while everyone already hates me. What if I have a buddy whose almost 20, he has 2 or so years under his belt and he's 5"10 215 lbs. 48 chest, 16.5 arms, 5 plate DL, 300 bench etc etc. He is interested in roids or PHs. Would you say the same stuff? Too young? Or is he more ready? (srs question)
 
Btw just ffs, I'm not an idiot and I do know about PCT and I know you have to do a correct stack to avoid gyno acne etc etc. Just because I don't know all the drugs off the top of my head ATM doesn't mean I intend to neglect them were I to make a stack, which after these responses I don't.
 
Nistau said:
Okay, just curious while everyone already hates me. What if I have a buddy whose almost 20, he has 2 or so years under his belt and he's 5"10 215 lbs. 48 chest, 16.5 arms, 5 plate DL, 300 bench etc etc. He is interested in roids or PHs. Would you say the same stuff? Too young? Or is he more ready? (srs question)
Click to expand...

well, no... hes 19 and youre 20, so youre too young, but not him.
 
bill86 said:
well, no... hes 19 and youre 20, so youre too young, but not him.
Click to expand...

I meant he has the experience and diet and such that are important. Technically same as me but apparently a lot better.
 
Nistau said:
I meant he has the experience and diet and such that are important. Technically same as me but apparently a lot better.
Click to expand...

If he really is the size you say he is and has those lifts, why would he even want to start with AAS? At that height/weight, I'm guessing he could work on leaning up a bit and look pretty good. Even better, he still has years of easy gains ahead of him with just standard supplements. You need to stop looking at it as a negative that you aren't ready for PH/AAS, it's really a positive. If it ain't broke don't fix it...
 
He may have high lifts, but that does not mean he's experienced. 2 years is nothing when it comes to experience. ****, I'm a decade and 2 degrees into this and still learning more and more by the day.
 
Rodja said:
He may have high lifts, but that does not mean he's experienced. 2 years is nothing when it comes to experience. ****, I'm a decade and 2 degrees into this and still learning more and more by the day.
Click to expand...

haha, same here. ive been researching ph's off and on for about a year now, and i still dont know enough about the suppression of specific compounds, their effect on estrogen/rebound, etc to form a proper cycle/pct without asking for one of you guys' opinions. heck, aside from the main ones (sd, am, epi, etc) i dont even know what you guys are talking about half the time. thats why im so hesitant to start a cycle (well, id be a little less hesitant if i were willing to try to obtain a serm, but since im not, i wanna be 100% sure in what im doing since its kind of playing with fire....... cant wait until i get my tax return and the new AM/AB comes out, might just have to pull the trigger, haha)


but op - everyone has told you 100 times. your experience and knowledge are just parts of it, your age is a huge factor. if your friend is really that big at 19 and making those gains, then hes an idiot if he turns to ph/aas (must be nice, ive been working out for 8+ years busting my ass and im not that strong, albeit half of those years were spent looking for a miracle supplement and not giving a SH*T about eating enough/right... my biggest mistake)
 
it doesnt matter how strong he is. strength doesnt have anything do to with if a person is ready. it comes down to age and knowledge. if you did have knowledge on PCT and running this stuff like you claim you do, you wouldnt be posting these dumb comments.

and no, you didnt know what a real PCT was until we told you. thats why you asked about it. and if you cant remember two words (nolva, clomid), then you really dont have the smarts to take a proper cycle. if you knew what a proper PCT was, why would you ask us if the PCT the guy at the shop gave you is correct?
 
Since I'm obviously not ready for any type of hormones what else would you Reccomend for the best gains? Some guy told me about creatine and I've heard it's basically a step down from anabolic steroids.
 
jamesm11 said:
I agree with everyone. Resort to PHs when you're at your physiological max or hit a plateau after a while. Once you can get a solid diet down then you can think about adding stuff.

If you can gain 1lb a week by eating then do that. PHs dont do much more than that. Also if you grow too fast you risk tearing ligaments and tendons.

At 175lbs your lifts are pretty weak. Get stronger naturally. At 175 you should be benching 270+ and squatting close to 400 before you even think about it.

I was doing that at 19 at your size
Click to expand...

Not that I'm defending this kids idea to use but the amount of weight you lift is relative.

Relative- adj- existing or having its specific nature only by relation to something else; not absolute or independent: Happiness is relative.
 
You haven't even tried creatine yet?

That's like going take calculus without having taken math before in your life.

Creatine and protien. Steakodrol and sweetpotatoe-stane.
 
Nistau said:
Since I'm obviously not ready for any type of hormones what else would you Reccomend for the best gains? Some guy told me about creatine and I've heard it's basically a step down from anabolic steroids.
Click to expand...

i cant even believe what u said. im starting to think your just messing with everybody on here
 
are you a ****in retard? how dumb can you be? the relationship between creatine and steroids is like the relationship between socks and a blow dryer. they have no relationship at all. you know what? dont listen to anybody on here. take what you want to take. i think you deserve it.
 
On a cold friday afternoon, I had come home from school. I have been thinking of the gym all day. I was hungy, didnt have any lunch. In fact, I didnt eat because I spent the money. For the past month I was saving up for something. Something special which I bought at GNC. I was suprised they didnt ask for ID; I was pretty sure the cashier noticed how nervous I was. Anyways, my mom asked my how my day was when I got home, but I ignored her. I have more important things to do. I run to the bathroom and unpack my bag. In my school bag is a white plastic bag from GNC. I open the bag, first removing the reciept and flushing it down the toilet to get rid of the evidence. My heart was racing now. I unpack the Creatine monster from the bag. I wonder what people will be asking me when they see that I will be 50lbs heavier. Should I say I was just eating alot? I remove the label on the tub and tear it into a thousand small peices. I flush that down the toilet too. It is time now. I run up to my room when my mom askes me what I am holding. I panic, sweat drips down my forehead and my teeth chatter. "mom, its just for a school project". "what project?" "I dont know mom I just started it!!". A tear runs down my cheek. I run upstairs and open the creatine, scooping up 5 scoops into a clear water bottle. What have I gotten myself into???? I fill it with water and drink it. There is no turning back now. The Creatine monster is inside me now, it will control me. What should I do if I die? I cant let my family know about this. I open the Creatine tub and throw it all out the window; a white cloud of mysterious dust sparkles into the wind so graciously. I feel the substance taking control of me; I am now the monster. I walk downstairs, its time to work out; time to get big. Now I worry, I dont want to get too big; people will think I use steroids. I do use steroids. NO I DONT. Creatine. All I see is the weights now, I am almost downstairs when I hear "do you want a cookie I just baked". I know I do not have time for this **** now. "NO MOM I DO NOT WANT A COOKIE" I walk in the basement and drop to my knees before the weights, tears running down my cheeks. I turn to the right and look at myself in the mirror.

U mad?
 
I'm wondering if that was a joke. It seems as if from what I have read of your posts that it may not be a joke and you might actually be serious. By the way never ignore you Mom. Have some respect for your elders, they know more than you because they have been around a lot longer.
 
I didn't bother reading that crap he posted since he doesn't know what a paragraph is, but, regardless, this is what you should be focusing on with your time:
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