fightbackhxc
Well-known member
If you are the President-you're a puppet.
Top Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag
- Thread starter ax1
- Start date
If you are the President-you're a puppet.
fightbackhxc
Well-known member
Again you cited 3/3 politicians who have everything to lose and nothing to gain from events made public like this......Bias.
ax1
Legend
And scientists, and firefighters, and on the ground witnesses, and people in the military, and engineers, and physicists, and policemen, and government agents, and architects, and 50% of the citizens of NYC would like a investigation re-open in particular to building 7...and many more americans across the country.
Im not making the claims Im just reporting them, the scientists, and firefighters, and on the ground witnesses, and people in the military, and engineers, and physicists, and policemen, and government agents, and architects are.
HondaV65
Active member
Dude, although I spent 24 years in the military - I am by NO MEANS affixed to the notion that the US Government is infallible.
In fact - you've lost faith in this government - and so have I. I don't trust this government any farther than I can pick it up and throw it.
But - that doesn't make me accept some bull**** story about the government bringing down the twin towers. Seriously - a conspiracy that big would take THOUSANDS of people - if you include the Haliburton CEO's, the Hearst Publishing CEO and writers, Popular Mechanics, the NTISC, the FDNY, the NYPD, portions of the US military and intelligence services.
A Conspiracy that big doesn't survive two days without someone spilling the beans and coming forward. We're talking thousands of people.
And then - why did they do it?
Oh - they did it for oil ... LOL
Yeah - simple explanation - except Afghanistan has no oil.
LMAO.
HondaV65
Active member
Okay, then name one person of stature, who's name we'll all recognize - that supports your claims?
And by the way - are we now saying that Bill Clinton and Al Gore were in on the conspiracy ??? Jesus ... the plot thickens huh? How many people are we up to by the way? Millions now? Millions of people who may have been involved in your little conspiracy and the subsequent cover up? You really believe that?
ax1
Legend
But the government lauched the Vietnam war on a false flag attack at the Gulf of Tonkin incident that costs the lives of 60,000 of our troops and hundreds of thousands more injured. You really think they care? They even unclassified and admitted to it.
Invalid Link Removed
ax1
Legend
H.R. 3162
HondaV65
Active member
You know what - and 100 percent of the people in my office would like a slurpee right now - but ...
They aren't going to get one.
Why have an investigation just so that Alex Jones and you guys can make a mockery of it?
I wouldn't give you the platform for it.
You guys are a small, insignificant minority - just like the "Flat Earth Society" ... LOL.
You can have your wild notions - but don't expect thinking people to help you spew that garbage out to the general public.
ax1
Legend
I gave you contact information to 1,500+ architects and engineers..Im not the one spewing anything, and these good people arent spewing anything either. Feel free to attend a meeting.
You think and science that disproves your beliefs is a compound called Alex Jones, I just dont get why you think this way.
HondaV65
Active member
What?
So GWB killed thousands of Americans to pass the Patriot Act? A law which doesn't benefit him at all (since he is no longer in government)?
Please.
I don't like the PA either - but it was a reaction to 9-11, an overreaction - but nonetheless, it's the result of that event - not the cause of it.
HondaV65
Active member
And it's already been proven that those 1,500 architects and engineers aren't really "experts" and even the ones that are - aren't free from political bias.
And, even if they were all straight up truthful - 1,500 pales in comparison to the hundreds of thousands of architects and engineers who disagree with them. If "consensus" is what you're looking for - it's on my side, not yours.
ax1
Legend
Petition - U.S. Military Officers for 9/11 Truth We, the members of U.S. Military Officers for 9/11 Truth, believe that whereas:
- There is incontrovertible publicly available evidence since 9/11/01 that the official account of the events of that day is incomplete and fraught with errors;
- The 9/11 Commission Report inadequately answered, and in numerous cases even failed to address, many of the most important questions that were called to its attention;Invalid Link Removed
- The blatant disregard of extensive compelling evidence that clearly refutes the official account raises rational suspicion of intentional deception by agents of the U.S. Government;
- U.S. Government policies have been, and continue to be, founded upon assumptions about the events of 9/11 that are likely to be erroneous;
- As a result of U.S. military action based on the official account of 9/11, thousands of U.S. servicemen and women and hundreds of thousands of civilians have lost their lives; and
- The perpetrators of the heinous crimes against humanity that were committed on 9/11 have still not been brought to justice.
ax1
Legend
Who? So far your basing the entire even on what Popular Mechanics told you. What hundreds of thousands? Where are they?
ax1
Legend
I know alot of the Military are seeing how the corporations are cashing in on the show over in the middle east...they have much more to contribute in regards to information outside of 9/11.
ax1
Legend
You keep blaming Alex Jones on everything instead of blaming the scientists that try to scientifically prove things.
Invalid Link Removed
Purpose:
Our specific purpose is to collect, study, analyze, report on, and disseminate scientifically factual information and data on the events that took place on September 11, 2001 (9/11), and issues related to these events; to solicit public support for new, independent and scientific investigations of the events of 9/11; and to present, for scientific, educational, and civic purposes, a unified front of professional scientists who stand behind the emerging science of 9/11.
As scientists, we are committed to upholding the scientific method developed painstakingly over the past centuries, sometimes at great cost to personal reputation, circumstance, and freedom, and even to life itself.
Considering the tremendous impact, on decisions to go to war, of the official account of 9/11, and the many thousands of lives snuffed out by these wars and on 9/11 itself and thereafter, it behooves us, as representatives of the scientific tradition, to uphold that tradition with truth and honor by exposing the absurdity of the official story of 9/11 as seen from a scientific perspective.
It is probable that many of you, for reasons of time, political outlook, and personal inclination, or a desire not to question the government, have not yet closely examined the official story of what happened on September 11, 2001. To you and all those who seek a rational world through reason and truth-telling, we offer these pages.
HondaV65
Active member
So what? They see corporations cashing in - what's different about that than WWII? Which was a justified war by the way. People involved in war stuff kind of make money when there is a war going on.
But I know of NO military personnel who would conclude that that fact is evidence of a conspiracy.
HondaV65
Active member
ax1
Legend
Right...so now you know why Popular Mechanics are protecting their interests with their propaganda.
There are military who believe the scientists and the investigators who prove the government lied about how 9/11 came to being. You do know.
ax1
Legend
So with this statement your confirming you dont know anything then, which is fair. Im not claiming anything either, my primary focus are the witnesses on the ground and all the experts and scientists, bring popular mechanics to the drawing board as well, although they refuse to debate.
HondaV65
Active member
It doesn't prove a conspiracy dude.
And by the way - if there was a conspiracy - wouldn't Donald Rumsfeld be kind of "in" on it?
And yet - here he is giving you evidence of his conspiracy! Right - like he's that stupid.
The military loses money all the time dude - and says it can't account for it - that's government for you.
Doesn't mean they drop 3,000 of their own civilians when they can't make the books balance.
And besides - I thought the reason for the conspiracy was the Patriot Act ... now you're shifting your arguement to say the conspiracy was caused by the government's inability to balance it's books ...
LOL
"Wheels go 'round in a circle ..."
LMAO
ax1
Legend
Indian Lake
CLAIM: "Residents and workers at businesses outside Shanksville, Somerset County, reported discovering clothing, books, papers and what appeared to be human remains," states a Pittsburgh Post-Gazette article dated Sept. 13, 2001. "Others reported what appeared to be crash debris floating in Indian Lake, nearly 6 miles from the immediate crash scene." Commenting on reports that Indian Lake residents collected debris, Think AndAsk.com speculates: "On Sept. 10, 2001, a strong cold front pushed through the area, and behind it--winds blew northerly. Since Flight 93 crashed west-southwest of Indian Lake, it was impossible for debris to fly perpendicular to wind direction. ... The FBI lied." And the significance of widespread debris? Theorists claim the plane was breaking up before it crashed. TheForbiddenKnowledge.com states bluntly: "Without a doubt, Flight 93 was shot down."
FACT: Wallace Miller, Somerset County coroner, tells PM no body parts were found in Indian Lake. Human remains were confined to a 70-acre area directly surrounding the crash site. Paper and tiny scraps of sheetmetal, however, did land in the lake. "Very light debris will fly into the air, because of the concussion," says former National Transportation Safety Board investigator Matthew McCormick. Indian Lake is less than 1.5 miles southeast of the impact crater--not 6 miles--easily within range of debris blasted skyward by the heat of the explosion from the crash. And the wind that day was northwesterly, at 9 to 12 mph, which means it was blowing from the northwest--toward Indian Lake.
CLAIM: "Residents and workers at businesses outside Shanksville, Somerset County, reported discovering clothing, books, papers and what appeared to be human remains," states a Pittsburgh Post-Gazette article dated Sept. 13, 2001. "Others reported what appeared to be crash debris floating in Indian Lake, nearly 6 miles from the immediate crash scene." Commenting on reports that Indian Lake residents collected debris, Think AndAsk.com speculates: "On Sept. 10, 2001, a strong cold front pushed through the area, and behind it--winds blew northerly. Since Flight 93 crashed west-southwest of Indian Lake, it was impossible for debris to fly perpendicular to wind direction. ... The FBI lied." And the significance of widespread debris? Theorists claim the plane was breaking up before it crashed. TheForbiddenKnowledge.com states bluntly: "Without a doubt, Flight 93 was shot down."
FACT: Wallace Miller, Somerset County coroner, tells PM no body parts were found in Indian Lake. Human remains were confined to a 70-acre area directly surrounding the crash site. Paper and tiny scraps of sheetmetal, however, did land in the lake. "Very light debris will fly into the air, because of the concussion," says former National Transportation Safety Board investigator Matthew McCormick. Indian Lake is less than 1.5 miles southeast of the impact crater--not 6 miles--easily within range of debris blasted skyward by the heat of the explosion from the crash. And the wind that day was northwesterly, at 9 to 12 mph, which means it was blowing from the northwest--toward Indian Lake.
ax1
Legend
WTC 7 Collapse
CLAIM: Seven hours after the two towers fell, the 47-story WTC 7 collapsed. According to 911review.org: "The video clearly shows that it was not a collapse subsequent to a fire, but rather a controlled demolition: amongst the Internet investigators, the jury is in on this one."
FACT: Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom--approximately 10 stories--about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.
NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.
[TD="class: comment"] No amount of "physical damage to the south face of building 7" can account for these three collapse features:
CLAIM: Seven hours after the two towers fell, the 47-story WTC 7 collapsed. According to 911review.org: "The video clearly shows that it was not a collapse subsequent to a fire, but rather a controlled demolition: amongst the Internet investigators, the jury is in on this one."
FACT: Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom--approximately 10 stories--about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.
NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.
[TD="class: comment"] No amount of "physical damage to the south face of building 7" can account for these three collapse features:
- WTC 7 fell vertically with great precision.
- WTC 7 fell at nearly the rate of free-fall.
- WTC 7's rubble pile was amazingly tidy, confined almost entirely to the city block on which the building stood.
HondaV65
Active member
You are a liar.
You are claiming that 9-11 was a conspiracy ...
So far you've said it was conspiracy designed to ...
1. Bring on the Patriot Act
2. Make money for Haliburton
3. For oil
4. To cover for $2T dollars supposedly "lost" by DoD.
LOL - you can't make up your mind but these are all the "claims" you've made.
ax1
Legend
Thermodynamic Analysis of the Twin Tower Collapses
Abstract, Revision History, and Acknowledgments for the Paper:
The North Tower's Dust Cloud:
Analysis of Energy Requirements for the Expansion of the Dust Cloud Following the Collapse of 1 World Trade Center
ABSTRACT
The paper The North Tower's Dust Cloud: Analysis of Energy Requirements for the Expansion of the Dust Cloud Following the Collapse of 1 World Trade Center uses photographic evidence -- primarily a reference photograph taken from FEMA's report -- to estimate the volume of the dust cloud that grew from the collapse of the North Tower at about 30 seconds after the commencement of the collapse. The paper then estimates the thermal energy required to produce the observed expansion in the volume of the dust cloud, based on the assumption that most of the gasses and suspended solids in the cloud originated from within the building.
The most recent version of the paper identifies two major mechanisms for the expansion -- thermodynamic expansion of gasses due to increases in temperature, and expansion due to the vaporization of water. Both represent vast energy sinks. Whatever the relative contributions of these mechanisms to the expansion, the required energy inputs far exceeding the energy available in the form of the gravitational potential energy due to the tower's elevated mass.
Previous versions of the paper did not consider expansion due to water vaporization, and considered only thermodynamic expansion of gasses present in the building at the time of collapse. That required average dust cloud temperatures of around 1000 K, a feature several people found implausible. The addition of the heat of water vaporization to the analysis changes the picture dramatically. The heat energy requirements are similar, but the temperatures need not have been anywhere near 1000 K, since the phase change of water to steam occurs at 100 C.
The paper shows a large disparity between the energy required to produce the observed expansion of the dust cloud and that available from the conversion of all the tower's gravitational potential energy to heat. It does not consider the possible energy source of the unlikely rapid combustion of the tower's contents during its collapse, but even the energy available from consuming all of the oxygen in the tower to burn hydrocarbons is far short of the estimated size of the energy sink of dust cloud expansion.
Invalid Link Removed
Abstract, Revision History, and Acknowledgments for the Paper:
The North Tower's Dust Cloud:
Analysis of Energy Requirements for the Expansion of the Dust Cloud Following the Collapse of 1 World Trade Center
ABSTRACT
The paper The North Tower's Dust Cloud: Analysis of Energy Requirements for the Expansion of the Dust Cloud Following the Collapse of 1 World Trade Center uses photographic evidence -- primarily a reference photograph taken from FEMA's report -- to estimate the volume of the dust cloud that grew from the collapse of the North Tower at about 30 seconds after the commencement of the collapse. The paper then estimates the thermal energy required to produce the observed expansion in the volume of the dust cloud, based on the assumption that most of the gasses and suspended solids in the cloud originated from within the building.
The most recent version of the paper identifies two major mechanisms for the expansion -- thermodynamic expansion of gasses due to increases in temperature, and expansion due to the vaporization of water. Both represent vast energy sinks. Whatever the relative contributions of these mechanisms to the expansion, the required energy inputs far exceeding the energy available in the form of the gravitational potential energy due to the tower's elevated mass.
Previous versions of the paper did not consider expansion due to water vaporization, and considered only thermodynamic expansion of gasses present in the building at the time of collapse. That required average dust cloud temperatures of around 1000 K, a feature several people found implausible. The addition of the heat of water vaporization to the analysis changes the picture dramatically. The heat energy requirements are similar, but the temperatures need not have been anywhere near 1000 K, since the phase change of water to steam occurs at 100 C.
The paper shows a large disparity between the energy required to produce the observed expansion of the dust cloud and that available from the conversion of all the tower's gravitational potential energy to heat. It does not consider the possible energy source of the unlikely rapid combustion of the tower's contents during its collapse, but even the energy available from consuming all of the oxygen in the tower to burn hydrocarbons is far short of the estimated size of the energy sink of dust cloud expansion.
Invalid Link Removed
ax1
Legend
MIT Physics vs. 9/11 Conspiracy (Part 1)
Jeff King gives his thorough analysis of the WTC collapses on 9/11 in 2003 and concludes that explosive controlled demolition is the only scientifically explainable hypothesis. This is research from early on, and doesn't account for many of the later discoveries, however, its still a very important video.
Category:
Jeff King gives his thorough analysis of the WTC collapses on 9/11 in 2003 and concludes that explosive controlled demolition is the only scientifically explainable hypothesis. This is research from early on, and doesn't account for many of the later discoveries, however, its still a very important video.
Category:
HondaV65
Active member
Dude - there were MANY firemen who witnessed the collapse of WTC-7. I've been all through this. They fought for that building for seven hours but they were "pulled" off the job when it was determined the building was unstable and unsalvageable. Many of the firefighters have stated that the building was leaning and that there was a "bulge" in one side. Civilians on site said the building "didn't look right at all".
So the firement were "pulled" and they watched the building collapse.
That's the facts - I don't give a **** how it fell. I don't give a **** if the building drew a smiley face with it's falling debris.
There were witnesses - firemen IN the buidling fighting to save the building who have testified this buidling was going down.
ax1
Legend
9/11 Incontrovertible Proof the Government is Lying
Uploaded by NanoThermite911 on Mar 3, 2009
Who's Lying? NIST and conspirators eager to cover-up their crimes or the FDNY?
Smoking Gun Proof :
Peer Reviewed Primary Article confirms Thermite was Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe
Primary Article Source : Invalid Link Removed...
Marvin Bush sat on the Board of Directors for Stratasec/Securacom which ran electronic security at the World Trade Center during the 9 month elevator renovation that was done on the buildings by Ace Elevator Co.
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
During this time it was not only conceivable but also reported that there were strange noisy workers inside the buildings operating on the empty maintenance floors. Look up William Rodriguez, Ben Fountain, and Scott Forbes if you need witnesses to this as well as the power down and evacuation drills being conducted the weekend before 9/11.
Rudy Giuliani's FEMA Command Bunker covers the "reconstruction" in WTC 7 and Barry Jennings is our Star Witness for what happened there.
Through the elevator shafts access can be gained to 4 foot crawl spaces between floors where explosives could have been planted without workers in the buildings realizing it or seeing what was going on. They also shifted tennants around often enough that they could hide the work from the occupancy (which was an all time low)
Technical Papers on 9/11 collapse up for peer review @ AE911truth.org
Physical Chemistry of Thermite, Thermate, Iron-Alum-Rich Microspheres at Demise of WTC 1 & 2 Jerry Lobdill 6/15/2007
Invalid Link Removed
9/11 Physics Problems:
WTC 7: A Short Computation Prof. Kenneth L. Kuttler
Invalid Link Removed
The Missing Jolt: A Simple Refutation of the NIST-Bazant Collapse Hypothesis
By Prof. Graeme MacQueen and Tony Szamboti
Invalid Link Removed
NIST Report on WTC 7 dissected by Engineers:
Invalid Link Removed...
Lies about the WTC by NIST and Underwriters Laboratories
Kevin Ryan - U.L. whistleblower - former Site Manager
Invalid Link Removed
A useful 9/11 collapse simulator:
Invalid Link Removed
The NIST WTC Investigation -- How Real Was The Simulation?
Eric Douglas, Architect
Invalid Link Removed
NIST in their own words admits free fall speed:
Invalid Link Removed
"Stage 2 (1.75 to 4.0 seconds): gravitational acceleration (free fall)"
NIST admitting Free Fall On Video
1. watch?v=V0GHVEKrhng
2. watch?v=XtKLtUiww80
3. watch?v=Vz43hcKYBm4
Law of Conservation of Momentum
Invalid Link Removed
Laws of Kinematics:
Invalid Link Removed
Uploaded by NanoThermite911 on Mar 3, 2009
Who's Lying? NIST and conspirators eager to cover-up their crimes or the FDNY?
Smoking Gun Proof :
Peer Reviewed Primary Article confirms Thermite was Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe
Primary Article Source : Invalid Link Removed...
Marvin Bush sat on the Board of Directors for Stratasec/Securacom which ran electronic security at the World Trade Center during the 9 month elevator renovation that was done on the buildings by Ace Elevator Co.
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
During this time it was not only conceivable but also reported that there were strange noisy workers inside the buildings operating on the empty maintenance floors. Look up William Rodriguez, Ben Fountain, and Scott Forbes if you need witnesses to this as well as the power down and evacuation drills being conducted the weekend before 9/11.
Rudy Giuliani's FEMA Command Bunker covers the "reconstruction" in WTC 7 and Barry Jennings is our Star Witness for what happened there.
Through the elevator shafts access can be gained to 4 foot crawl spaces between floors where explosives could have been planted without workers in the buildings realizing it or seeing what was going on. They also shifted tennants around often enough that they could hide the work from the occupancy (which was an all time low)
Technical Papers on 9/11 collapse up for peer review @ AE911truth.org
Physical Chemistry of Thermite, Thermate, Iron-Alum-Rich Microspheres at Demise of WTC 1 & 2 Jerry Lobdill 6/15/2007
Invalid Link Removed
9/11 Physics Problems:
WTC 7: A Short Computation Prof. Kenneth L. Kuttler
Invalid Link Removed
The Missing Jolt: A Simple Refutation of the NIST-Bazant Collapse Hypothesis
By Prof. Graeme MacQueen and Tony Szamboti
Invalid Link Removed
NIST Report on WTC 7 dissected by Engineers:
Invalid Link Removed...
Lies about the WTC by NIST and Underwriters Laboratories
Kevin Ryan - U.L. whistleblower - former Site Manager
Invalid Link Removed
A useful 9/11 collapse simulator:
Invalid Link Removed
The NIST WTC Investigation -- How Real Was The Simulation?
Eric Douglas, Architect
Invalid Link Removed
NIST in their own words admits free fall speed:
Invalid Link Removed
"Stage 2 (1.75 to 4.0 seconds): gravitational acceleration (free fall)"
NIST admitting Free Fall On Video
1. watch?v=V0GHVEKrhng
2. watch?v=XtKLtUiww80
3. watch?v=Vz43hcKYBm4
Law of Conservation of Momentum
Invalid Link Removed
Laws of Kinematics:
Invalid Link Removed
fightbackhxc
Well-known member
Dude you seriously can't believe what you find on the internet. Pro conspiracy or not. Just have to read and watch and draw your own conclusion.
ax1
Legend
Flight 175's Windows
CLAIM: On Sept. 11, FOX News broadcast a live phone interview with FOX employee Marc Birnbach. 911inplanesite.com states that "Bernback" saw the plane "crash into the South Tower." "It definitely did not look like a commercial plane," Birnbach said on air. "I didn't see any windows on the sides."
Coupled with photographs and videos of Flight 175 that lack the resolution to show windows, Birnbach's statement has fueled one of the most widely referenced 9/11 conspiracy theories--specifically, that the South Tower was struck by a military cargo plane or a fuel tanker.
FACT:Birnbach, who was a freelance videographer with FOX News at the time, tells PM that he was more than 2 miles southeast of the WTC, in Brooklyn, when he briefly saw a plane fly over. He says that, in fact, he did not see the plane strike the South Tower; he says he only heard the explosion.
While heading a Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) probe into the collapse of the towers, W. Gene Corley studied the airplane wreckage. A licensed structural engineer with Construction Technology Laboratories, a consulting firm based in Skokie, Ill., Corley and his team photographed aircraft debris on the roof of WTC 5, including a chunk of fuselage that clearly had passenger windows. "It's ... from the United Airlines plane that hit Tower 2," Corley states flatly. In reviewing crash footage taken by an ABC news crew, Corley was able to track the trajectory of the fragments he studied--including a section of the landing gear and part of an engine--as they tore through the South Tower, exited from the building's north side and fell from the sky.
[TD="class: comment"] The no-windows claim is as nonsensical and unrepresentative of serious 9/11 skepticism as the pod claim. See Invalid Link Removed. [/TD]
CLAIM: On Sept. 11, FOX News broadcast a live phone interview with FOX employee Marc Birnbach. 911inplanesite.com states that "Bernback" saw the plane "crash into the South Tower." "It definitely did not look like a commercial plane," Birnbach said on air. "I didn't see any windows on the sides."
Coupled with photographs and videos of Flight 175 that lack the resolution to show windows, Birnbach's statement has fueled one of the most widely referenced 9/11 conspiracy theories--specifically, that the South Tower was struck by a military cargo plane or a fuel tanker.
FACT:Birnbach, who was a freelance videographer with FOX News at the time, tells PM that he was more than 2 miles southeast of the WTC, in Brooklyn, when he briefly saw a plane fly over. He says that, in fact, he did not see the plane strike the South Tower; he says he only heard the explosion.
While heading a Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) probe into the collapse of the towers, W. Gene Corley studied the airplane wreckage. A licensed structural engineer with Construction Technology Laboratories, a consulting firm based in Skokie, Ill., Corley and his team photographed aircraft debris on the roof of WTC 5, including a chunk of fuselage that clearly had passenger windows. "It's ... from the United Airlines plane that hit Tower 2," Corley states flatly. In reviewing crash footage taken by an ABC news crew, Corley was able to track the trajectory of the fragments he studied--including a section of the landing gear and part of an engine--as they tore through the South Tower, exited from the building's north side and fell from the sky.
[TD="class: comment"] The no-windows claim is as nonsensical and unrepresentative of serious 9/11 skepticism as the pod claim. See Invalid Link Removed. [/TD]
ax1
Legend
Widespread Damage
CLAIM: The first hijacked plane crashed through the 94th to the 98th floors of the World Trade Center's 110-story North Tower; the second jet slammed into the 78th to the 84th floors of the 110-story South Tower. The impact and ensuing fires disrupted elevator service in both buildings. Plus, the lobbies of both buildings were visibly damaged before the towers collapsed. "There is NO WAY the impact of the jet caused such widespread damage 80 stories below," claims a posting on the San Diego Independent Media Center Web site (sandiego.indymedia.org). "It is OBVIOUS and irrefutable that OTHER EXPLOSIVES (... such as concussion bombs) HAD ALREADY BEEN DETONATED in the lower levels of tower one at the same time as the plane crash."
FACT: Following up on a May 2002 preliminary report by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), a major study will be released in spring 2005 by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), a branch of the U.S. Department of Commerce. NIST shared its initial findings with PM and made its lead researcher available to our team of reporters.
The NIST investigation revealed that plane debris sliced through the utility shafts at the North Tower's core, creating a conduit for burning jet fuel--and fiery destruction throughout the building. "It's very hard to document where the fuel went," says Forman Williams, a NIST adviser and a combustion expert, "but if it's atomized and combustible and gets to an ignition source, it'll go off."
Burning fuel traveling down the elevator shafts would have disrupted the elevator systems and caused extensive damage to the lobbies. NIST heard first-person testimony that "some elevators slammed right down" to the ground floor. "The doors cracked open on the lobby floor and flames came out and people died," says James Quintiere, an engineering professor at the University of Maryland and a NIST adviser. A similar observation was made in the French documentary "9/11," by Jules and Gedeon Naudet. As Jules Naudet entered the North Tower lobby, minutes after the first aircraft struck, he saw victims on fire, a scene he found too horrific to film.
[TD="class: comment"] PM leads its section about the World Trade Center (and its demolition) with this story, which is likely a red herring. The story is documented Invalid Link Removed. [/TD]
CLAIM: The first hijacked plane crashed through the 94th to the 98th floors of the World Trade Center's 110-story North Tower; the second jet slammed into the 78th to the 84th floors of the 110-story South Tower. The impact and ensuing fires disrupted elevator service in both buildings. Plus, the lobbies of both buildings were visibly damaged before the towers collapsed. "There is NO WAY the impact of the jet caused such widespread damage 80 stories below," claims a posting on the San Diego Independent Media Center Web site (sandiego.indymedia.org). "It is OBVIOUS and irrefutable that OTHER EXPLOSIVES (... such as concussion bombs) HAD ALREADY BEEN DETONATED in the lower levels of tower one at the same time as the plane crash."
FACT: Following up on a May 2002 preliminary report by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), a major study will be released in spring 2005 by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), a branch of the U.S. Department of Commerce. NIST shared its initial findings with PM and made its lead researcher available to our team of reporters.
The NIST investigation revealed that plane debris sliced through the utility shafts at the North Tower's core, creating a conduit for burning jet fuel--and fiery destruction throughout the building. "It's very hard to document where the fuel went," says Forman Williams, a NIST adviser and a combustion expert, "but if it's atomized and combustible and gets to an ignition source, it'll go off."
Burning fuel traveling down the elevator shafts would have disrupted the elevator systems and caused extensive damage to the lobbies. NIST heard first-person testimony that "some elevators slammed right down" to the ground floor. "The doors cracked open on the lobby floor and flames came out and people died," says James Quintiere, an engineering professor at the University of Maryland and a NIST adviser. A similar observation was made in the French documentary "9/11," by Jules and Gedeon Naudet. As Jules Naudet entered the North Tower lobby, minutes after the first aircraft struck, he saw victims on fire, a scene he found too horrific to film.
[TD="class: comment"] PM leads its section about the World Trade Center (and its demolition) with this story, which is likely a red herring. The story is documented Invalid Link Removed. [/TD]
ax1
Legend
[h=1]FEMA Cameraman has Proof 9/11 was Inside Job [/h]Originally Aired August 2010
An American cameraman who says September 11 was a lie is facing extradition from Argentina to the United States on alleged murder charges. Kurt Sonnenfeld, a man who was provided provisory refugee status seven years ago, is now wanted by the US government on murder charges. He is the only cameraman that filmed crucial images of Ground Zero in New York after the Twin Towers collapsed.
Sonnenfeld, who lives in Buenos Aires with his Argentine family, says the footage proves that 9/11 was a lie. He still has the 22-hour footage that US authorities want.
"I have promised to give my footage to the big investigators that are credible and widely known - investigators who will be able to detect anomalies that I or other people without scientific education might miss. With that in mind, I hope that there are many things they can discover that disprove the current official story of what happened," Sonnenfeld told a Press TV correspondent.
He says he fears for his life if he is sent back to the United States to face trial. The Denver police have claimed they have evidence that show he killed his first wife in the US.
Social activists who are campaigning for Sonnenfeld to be given refugee status in Argentina say the Denver police are lying. The Sonnenfelds say they have been under police surveillance and that their phone has been tapped.
Sonnenfeld claims that his footage proves top US government officials were aware of the 2001 terrorist attacks before they occurred says he is a victim of a US plot to silence him.
An American cameraman who says September 11 was a lie is facing extradition from Argentina to the United States on alleged murder charges. Kurt Sonnenfeld, a man who was provided provisory refugee status seven years ago, is now wanted by the US government on murder charges. He is the only cameraman that filmed crucial images of Ground Zero in New York after the Twin Towers collapsed.
Sonnenfeld, who lives in Buenos Aires with his Argentine family, says the footage proves that 9/11 was a lie. He still has the 22-hour footage that US authorities want.
"I have promised to give my footage to the big investigators that are credible and widely known - investigators who will be able to detect anomalies that I or other people without scientific education might miss. With that in mind, I hope that there are many things they can discover that disprove the current official story of what happened," Sonnenfeld told a Press TV correspondent.
He says he fears for his life if he is sent back to the United States to face trial. The Denver police have claimed they have evidence that show he killed his first wife in the US.
Social activists who are campaigning for Sonnenfeld to be given refugee status in Argentina say the Denver police are lying. The Sonnenfelds say they have been under police surveillance and that their phone has been tapped.
Sonnenfeld claims that his footage proves top US government officials were aware of the 2001 terrorist attacks before they occurred says he is a victim of a US plot to silence him.
HondaV65
Active member
Molten metal? Sure - some metal burns at a low temperature - are you denying that? I don't know what the melting point of aluminum is but there was a lot of it in the building - I would guess it's fairly low - much lower than steel anyway.
That doesn't mean the structural beams "melted" there was all kinds of metal in that building dude. Of course - some metal did melt - but none that were responsible for the stuctural integrity of the building.