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Switched to Shots, LOW T NOW!

monsterbox

monsterbox

Well-known member
I was at:
1080ng/dl
256ng/dl Free-T
SHBG -15
E2 - 21

On Cream, applied 150mg 2x per day


I switched to shots cuz I wanted less hassle:

120mg Test-Cyp 1x per week

Day 5 after shot:
438ng/dl
130ng/dl Free-T
SHBG-11
E2-25

I feel like not even close to as good. My strength gains are much better, but sex drive and mood is way lower. I mean the free-t is still top of the range, but its no longer double the range. The doc is willing to raise me to 140mg...but i'm thinking for me its going to take at least 200mg/wk to feel comparable?

what should i do? Work on getting 200-250mg? For me its going to take much more than most people i guess to get the same levels. I want to feel the same as I did, I used to feel awesome. But I dont want the hassle of the cream...so i need to be at 250ng/dl of free t.

My current doc will only raise me in 20mg increments, every 3 weeks. He think 140mg is going to be plenty and expalined to me that with shots, you only need HALF of the levels to feel the same...because its a consistent blood level where as the cream peaks out and drops quickly.....whatever...why can't i JUST GET a scrpit for 200-250. My hematocrit, bp, etc is all perfect.
 
monsterbox said:
I was at:
1080ng/dl
256ng/dl Free-T
SHBG -15
E2 - 21

On Cream, applied 150mg 2x per day


I switched to shots cuz I wanted less hassle:

120mg Test-Cyp 1x per week

Day 5 after shot:
438ng/dl
130ng/dl Free-T
SHBG-11
E2-25

I feel like not even close to as good. My strength gains are much better, but sex drive and mood is way lower. I mean the free-t is still top of the range, but its no longer double the range. The doc is willing to raise me to 140mg...but i'm thinking for me its going to take at least 200mg/wk to feel comparable?

what should i do? Work on getting 200-250mg? For me its going to take much more than most people i guess to get the same levels. I want to feel the same as I did, I used to feel awesome. But I dont want the hassle of the cream...so i need to be at 250ng/dl of free t.

My current doc will only raise me in 20mg increments, every 3 weeks. He think 140mg is going to be plenty and expalined to me that with shots, you only need HALF of the levels to feel the same...because its a consistent blood level where as the cream peaks out and drops quickly.....whatever...why can't i JUST GET a scrpit for 200-250. My hematocrit, bp, etc is all perfect.
Click to expand...
You applied 150mg twice a day for a total of 300mg?
 
Originally Posted by TylerDurden7
I was origninally put on 200mg/week and levels were coming in around 1,000 ng/dl. Felt great, no complaints. Best I had felt in a long time. My endo said it was too high and so he lowered it to 150 mg/week. My last blood test had me coming in around upper 500's by the end of the week. I am not happy with this dose, and almost feel like my numbers are going down even more. I am going to try to get an increase back up to 200mg. Is it possible that over time you can build a tolerance to test and require more to achieve the same blood levels?

You may have a condition known as androgen insensitvity which may require more testosterone then usual. It appears you are a fast metabolizer and your cortisol may be low which may be causing your body to burn testosterone People with similar conditions tend to have super low shbg which will require more injections more frequently. Inject 100 mgs every 3.5 days should keep plasma level at upper 1/3 range. The question is where is the test going and converting into. I would examine your other hormone levels many, adrenal, thyroid , and e2, dht levels to look to see factors that could be affect you are metaboliszing testosteron. You may have altered pathway in the liver or taking another drug which could be altering how your body process testosterone. I would look for reason why this is occuring then have multiple injections to keep plasma levels at 1/3 the upper range at the lowest point.


Found this post somewhere....this sounds EXACTLY like wahts going on.

I had to apply cream 2x per day.


SO the issue should be thought of in this fashion:
LOW-SHBG burns up testosterone faster, therefore instead of "raising" the dose, the patient should just dose more frequently.
 
monsterbox said:
yes sir! and felt great. Kinda wish I left it alone. Just wanted the ease of shots cuz i dont mind needles..plus I liked the idea of less DHT and more active blood levels.
Click to expand...
Consider this:

Cream:
300mg @ 10% = 30mg x 7 = 210mg/week active test
300mg @ 7.5% = 22.5mg x 7 = 157mg/week active test
300mg @ 5.0% = 15mg x 7 = 105mg/week activetest

You likely had very (I mean very) elevated levels of DHT because of the high rate of conversion when applied transdermally. That rate of DHT will cause you to feel very good but can be too high for good health.

When I was on cream at only 200mg daily my DHT was high at 223 (range of 25-75) but my SHBG was increased but only as high as 38 (range of 9-45)

Injection:
120mg/week cyp = 85mg/week active test

This likely has very low conversion to DHT. The combination of dramatically lower DHT and low end active testosterone may be your problem.

Low SHBG means more free testosterone.
 
Heat Miser said:
Consider this:

Cream:
300mg @ 10% = 30mg x 7 = 210mg/week active test
300mg @ 7.5% = 22.5mg x 7 = 157mg/week active test
300mg @ 5.0% = 15mg x 7 = 105mg/week activetest

You likely had very (I mean very) elevated levels of DHT because of the high rate of conversion when applied transdermally. That rate of DHT will cause you to feel very good but can be too high for good health.

When I was on cream at only 200mg daily my DHT was high at 223 (range of 25-75) but my SHBG was increased but only as high as 38 (range of 9-45)

Injection:
120mg/week cyp = 85mg/week active test

This likely has very low conversion to DHT. The combination of dramatically lower DHT and low end active testosterone may be your problem.

Low SHBG means more free testosterone.
Click to expand...

buddy i was on 20%, 300mg. Yes crazy amount. I was a non-responder so i required a crap ton.

My goal is to run 100mg 2x per week of Test-C. I think that should be enough.
 
Im really thinking to say just screw it and go back to the cream. I felt amazing on it, i guess there was no reason to switch over besides the cheaper cost and less hassle..in the end its about how you feel right?
 
monsterbox said:
Im really thinking to say just screw it and go back to the cream. I felt amazing on it, i guess there was no reason to switch over besides the cheaper cost and less hassle..in the end its about how you feel right?
Click to expand...

Hence the phrase, If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I suspect the lower DHT levels is what is causing your problem, especially since you say strength levels are the same.
 
monsterbox said:
Im really thinking to say just screw it and go back to the cream. I felt amazing on it, i guess there was no reason to switch over besides the cheaper cost and less hassle..in the end its about how you feel right?
Click to expand...

No, in the end, its about your health. Feeling like a million bucks and having your prostate swell to the size of a baseball by 22 years old doesn't sound great.
 
To be honest, I preach injections but actually "felt" better on Testim. I think the up and down of injections makes it not worth the ease of application. I went back to Testim and just saved my test cyp. Vials for a future blast cycle..
 
Presa said:
To be honest, I preach injections but actually "felt" better on Testim. I think the up and down of injections makes it not worth the ease of application. I went back to Testim and just saved my test cyp. Vials for a future blast cycle..
Click to expand...

If you have to take 300 mgs of creame this is a huge red flag to investigate thyroid and adrenal issues. With that much cream your dht would have been easily in the 250- 300 range. If a dr has to apply that much cream I question his integrity as a medical Dr. If you move to shots you may need EOD shots to keep you at optimal levels. If you are getting that low after 5 days then you are a fast metabolizer which needs to be taken into consideration. I have a patient that needs 250 a week and still tests in the area of 700 range and he is doing it 2 times a week. I actually pulled him a side and ask him straight up if his fudging the test. He told me my idea is not to be a body builder but to be healthy. I accepted that answer. His symptoms have alleviated completely and is enjoying life. SO yes there are people that chew through testosterone and it may be your GH is low. GH preserves ones testosterone function while on TRT.
 
The Matrix said:
If you have to take 300 mgs of creame this is a huge red flag to investigate thyroid and adrenal issues. With that much cream your dht would have been easily in the 250- 300 range. If a dr has to apply that much cream I question his integrity as a medical Dr. If you move to shots you may need EOD shots to keep you at optimal levels. If you are getting that low after 5 days then you are a fast metabolizer which needs to be taken into consideration. I have a patient that needs 250 a week and still tests in the area of 700 range and he is doing it 2 times a week. I actually pulled him a side and ask him straight up if his fudging the test. He told me my idea is not to be a body builder but to be healthy. I accepted that answer. His symptoms have alleviated completely and is enjoying life. SO yes there are people that chew through testosterone and it may be your GH is low. GH preserves ones testosterone function while on TRT.
Click to expand...

Well i went ahead and switched back to the gel and feel alot better already. The doctor I was seeing is one of the most famous in the united states..everyone knows who he is, im sure you can guess him.

My T3, reverse T3, T4, and TSH are all excellent and have always been excellent. I dont know why I needed so much cream, and or T shots....my doc only moves in 20mg increments every 3 weeks on the shots and its going to take 25-30 weeks before I'm at optimized levels on shots...so I just said screw it and went back to T-gel.

I would rather chew through cream then be shooting a ton of oil and having to deal with estrogen issues rather than DHT issues.

I have no prostate swelling, and even had my prostate examined. I have a second local doctor odering thyroid panel and PSA.
 
yep I wrote it. :)
I would switch to gel vs creams they are more absorbable in a base of lipoderm not versabase
try same dosage but in different carrier
thyroid numbers may look great but it's tissue response that counts not blood

monsterbox said:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden7
I was origninally put on 200mg/week and levels were coming in around 1,000 ng/dl. Felt great, no complaints. Best I had felt in a long time. My endo said it was too high and so he lowered it to 150 mg/week. My last blood test had me coming in around upper 500's by the end of the week. I am not happy with this dose, and almost feel like my numbers are going down even more. I am going to try to get an increase back up to 200mg. Is it possible that over time you can build a tolerance to test and require more to achieve the same blood levels?

You may have a condition known as androgen insensitvity which may require more testosterone then usual. It appears you are a fast metabolizer and your cortisol may be low which may be causing your body to burn testosterone People with similar conditions tend to have super low shbg which will require more injections more frequently. Inject 100 mgs every 3.5 days should keep plasma level at upper 1/3 range. The question is where is the test going and converting into. I would examine your other hormone levels many, adrenal, thyroid , and e2, dht levels to look to see factors that could be affect you are metaboliszing testosteron. You may have altered pathway in the liver or taking another drug which could be altering how your body process testosterone. I would look for reason why this is occuring then have multiple injections to keep plasma levels at 1/3 the upper range at the lowest point.


Found this post somewhere....this sounds EXACTLY like wahts going on.

I had to apply cream 2x per day.


SO the issue should be thought of in this fashion:
LOW-SHBG burns up testosterone faster, therefore instead of "raising" the dose, the patient should just dose more frequently.
Click to expand...
 
The Matrix said:
yep I wrote it. :)
I would switch to gel vs creams they are more absorbable in a base of lipoderm not versabase
try same dosage but in different carrier
thyroid numbers may look great but it's tissue response that counts not blood
Click to expand...

you are talking about alcohol based gel? Iv always used that and sometimes end up with powder residue left over on my skin that didn't absorb. I usually throw some rubbing alochol on my skin and the powder dissappears into my skin.
 
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