recovery after 10 week cycle vs 24 week+ cycle
- Thread starter hungryH
- Start date
DetroitHammer
Well-known member
Some guys use Deca for 4 wks and never recover; other's use it for 20wks with no sides at all. Point is, no one can predict whether you'll recover after 16 wks or 20 wks. But doing a cycle without HCG is one way to make sure you don't recover. How far are you into your cycle? What are you taking? Is this your first? Personally, I feel that the longer you go without HCG the harder it will be for you to fully recover. Since you don't have HCG, I'd be concerned.
hungryH
Member
cant get hcg because irish customs are incredibly incredibly strict, even disguised the hcg i ordered (a year ago) got seized.there is literally none I can acquire from within the country
5th cycle
im at exactly 16 weeks now, has been test, with tren ace first half and npp for the last 8 weeks. made great gains but really want to spend at least another 6 weeks cutting, cannot bear to have to finish pct before I start cutting because I have body image problems and have no sense confidence when my bodyfat is higher than Id like(but thats another issue altogether)
I guess my question is, how much harder will it be to recover from a 24 weeks cycle as opposed to a 16 weeker?
DetroitHammer
Well-known member
It will be harder; how much harder, I honestly don't know... On your last cycles, I trust you didn't have HCG but fully recovered? If you have a history of recovering after a cycle without HCG, then your odds are better than most and you're lucky. Extending your cycle another two months will be pushing your luck. My advice, whatever it's worth, is to go for it and be prepared for TRT if need be. If you're not ready for TRT, then you wouldn't be messing with AAS in the first place, so go for it.
DetroitHammer
Well-known member
But if they did, it doesn't mean you will. Your point was not missed. You're looking for someone to say they had no problems after 24 weeks so you can proceed with some degree of comfort. Fact remains, no matter what anyone else might have experienced, you're in unchartered waters concerning your own body. I'm not totally surprised that you can't get HCG, but find it difficult to believe that many have not heard of it...Back in the 70's guys like Arnold popped Dbol like candy and didn't know what "cycling" meant. He apparently recovered. HCG will help you recover for sure but that doesn't mean you won't recover without it.
trippn
Member
You could always visit a doctor and tell him/her what you are doing. Doctors can prescribe hcg. At least they can in the U.S., not sure bout Ireland. Either way, the doc could help you.
brownchoclit
Member
probably a bad idea without the hcg bro. i'd stop the cycle as planned.
GLHF
Well-known member
OP...i dnt no what recover means.
ull recover obviusly...u wouldnt die from that cycle. but how hard would u b able to get? and for how long u gona stay hard for? damage to ur semen? perma damage to ur semen?
do I think ur gona be fine? yes. ive seen people do dumber things and end up fine.
1-16 test
16-24 mast and winstrol
dnt keep taking test the entire time.
holy **** before people start jumping on that last sentence....U DONT NEED TEST IN A CYCLE. in most cycles you do, but if u take mast or EQ than u dont need test and especially if ur cutting.
ull recover obviusly...u wouldnt die from that cycle. but how hard would u b able to get? and for how long u gona stay hard for? damage to ur semen? perma damage to ur semen?
do I think ur gona be fine? yes. ive seen people do dumber things and end up fine.
1-16 test
16-24 mast and winstrol
dnt keep taking test the entire time.
holy **** before people start jumping on that last sentence....U DONT NEED TEST IN A CYCLE. in most cycles you do, but if u take mast or EQ than u dont need test and especially if ur cutting.
hungryH
Member
dude I agree that test isnt needed, done testless cycles myself(cutting mostly, for appetite reasons)
so how was pct after that cycle?did you feel alright and lose much mass/strength? how was libido
slacker86
Active member
24 weeks on without hcg and wanting to pct and not lose muscle is going to be rather difficult. if you want to run this long you really have to look at HRT/TRT being a good possibility in your life or having a really ****ty 2 months trying to get your natty test levels back maybe even longer..I have known guys who have run very high doseages for multiple years and recovered, however none of them recovered in under a year and it was a very long and hard proccess for all of them.
bad rad
Well-known member
Your LH will probably recover quickly but the long inactivity will keep the testes dormant for a long time. Anabolics 2007 has a study showing ~5 weeks to recover LH but 10+ to recover test levels. The part to gleam from the study was not waking the boys, ie HCG will hamper recovery even using PCT drugs since they only stimulate LH/FSH output sooner but do nothing to address the comatose testes.
DetroitHammer
Well-known member
Not sure I follow you. When used during a cycle HCG helps to maintain testicular size and condition. If you use it like recommended (about 500iu per wk while on cycle) it will keep the testicles receptive to LH. HCG maintains of a higher level of Inter-Testicular-Testosterone (ITT), when used during a cycle. This does address the recovery of the hypothalamic-testicular-pituitary-axis. During PCT it will still help in restoring your testicles back to their original size, and provide stimulation for the Leydig cells. Please explain how HCG hampers recovery? This is the first time I ever heard of that.
kvothe
Member
too many variables from individuals to say definitely no way you will recover or not. In general, the longer a person is on, the longer the recover time and the greater use hcg can be. Will you recover after a 20 week cycle without using hcg? Probably, but will it be harder and take longer? Again probably. I dont know if this question can be answered any shorter or simply than this. Now the question you should be asking yourself is, are the gains in weeks 10-24 worth the longer and more difficult pct? Only you can answer that for yourself. Also take into account that often, but not all times, there is a point of diminishing returns on cycle length, where gains slow and dosages need to be increased to get them going again, which also will make recovery more difficult.
bad rad
Well-known member
Sorry about that, I was thinking faster than I typed and left out a big part. It was supposed to read "without HCG".
The study was tracking the recovery of the HPTA after 20 weeks of Test E administration. There were no PCT drugs used during this time. LH recovered to pre-cycle levels in about 5 weeks but endogenous Test didn't recover for over 10 weeks. This can be used to show why HCG is important, once the testes are dormant recovery is much harder.
I was trying to tell the OP that even with PCT his endo test levels probably won't recovery quickly since his testes will still be dormant. Without HCG his LH/FSH levels will bounce back quicker using Clomid/Nolva but his HPTA will still be suppressed. I'm a big believer in HCG use and this study illustrates why, LH/FSH levels aren't suppressed for too long post cycle but the HPTA as a system is.
DetroitHammer
Well-known member
Ok, got it. Funny how one word can totally change the meaning. I'm with you now.
slacker86
Active member
The reason people use HCG during the cycle rather than in PCT is because hcg creates a false signal to the testes that there is LH and FSH being produced so they in turn keep producing testosterone (sperm etc etc) because they are getting a false signal that there is a LH/FSH signal coming from the brain, where in reality that signal is not actually there. To create a balanced HPTA the signal from the brain must be there as well as the testicular response. HCG in its own right is suppressive to the HPTA but in a different way, it is suppressive because the actual LH and FSH produced from the anterior pituitary are actually missing so rather than ur testicles being shut down its ur midbrain of ur endocrine system being turned off instead. When added to a cycle ur testicles respond by keeping their mass as well as a decent testosterone response which makes coming off a lot easier. However when added to PCT it doesnt necessarily help that well because when the hcg is ceased the lack in LH/FSH from the brain is still present and now you have to overcome that, which isnt as hard to restart however still is not immediate and probably will take at least a couple weeks.
There is a ton of info about why hcg is used on cycle and not in PCT anymore on this site all you have to do is search it out. Also make sure u dont abuse HCG in high amounts because you can also desensitize yourself to LH/FSH and then you are really really really going to make recovery much harder.
slacker86
Active member
time on + pct= time off is a general rule of thumb for people who are using orals and cause a lot of damage to their livers. Once the OP's HPTA is back on track for a month or so he can go back on.
slacker86
Active member
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/87070-hcg-usage-cycle.html
this is a good thread exactly about the hcg subject.
this is a good thread exactly about the hcg subject.
GLHF
Well-known member
NO!
OPs HPTA will not recover in a month after 24weeks. it wont recovere in a month even if he runs 10weeks. dont give your advice, it comes out wrong. and op reads it and thinks its alright to do 6month cycles. op doesnt even know what compounds to run in that time and your giving him the thumbs up.....
hungryH
Member
yup, thats the plan
have my ideal body right now, except with about 20lbs too much fat(Im 230 15%, wabt to cut down to 4-5ish)
GLHF
Well-known member
ok thats good. you got your body, but how are you gonna maintain 5% bf without steroids? youll be off for a while after this cycle.
hint: look into peptides.
hint2: run more but shorter cycles.
hungryH
Member
cant afford peptides bro, and good advice on the second hint buts usually what I always do......need alot to grow off, eg, cycle before this was test prop, tren at 150mg a day, 30mg sd, and 30mg of m1t for 6 weeks
no Im not going to maintain 5%, more like 7-8