Question for Obama sparks Web buzz

[EasyEJL]

Because its not all or nothing. That's the entire point, and what I've been saying from the beginning. There was no chance for negotiation really. It was all out war by Christie from the beginning.

Now keep in mind, that I don't support school teachers as they stand in NJ and would side w/ Christie on the rationale of this issue. However, his approach leaves much to be desired and it results in not only a loss of funds, but severe acrimony between all parties.

Well, but it was all out war by Christie as he had to find places to save the $ as there was over a $4 billion deficit. The state already has one of the higher sales tax, state income tax and real estate taxes out of the whole US. Rasing taxes further was not a reasonable action, so he had to cut $ from all areas of state spending.

He gave the teachers union a choice - either give in to some changes in contract, or be prepared for layoffs, and the teachers union chose layoffs. In your own household (and most households all across america) the exact same thing is happening - "Either we stop going to dinner so much or the car gets repossed" "Either we cancel cable TV or we can't afford having junior keep going to karate" etc.

It astounds me that somehow government figures (particularly liberals like Obama) can say how we all need to "tighten our belts" while they continue to spend like they have an unlimited credit line that never needs to be paid back. While Obama was giving one of his "tighten our belts" speeches, his wife was on vacation overseas with something like 20 of her friends, on a trip paid for by US tax dollars. Yay.

 

[AE14]

Well, but it was all out war by Christie as he had to find places to save the $ as there was over a $4 billion deficit. The state already has one of the higher sales tax, state income tax and real estate taxes out of the whole US. Rasing taxes further was not a reasonable action, so he had to cut $ from all areas of state spending.

He gave the teachers union a choice - either give in to some changes in contract, or be prepared for layoffs, and the teachers union chose layoffs. In your own household (and most households all across america) the exact same thing is happening - "Either we stop going to dinner so much or the car gets repossed" "Either we cancel cable TV or we can't afford having junior keep going to karate" etc.

It astounds me that somehow government figures (particularly liberals like Obama) can say how we all need to "tighten our belts" while they continue to spend like they have an unlimited credit line that never needs to be paid back. While Obama was giving one of his "tighten our belts" speeches, his wife was on vacation overseas with something like 20 of her friends, on a trip paid for by US tax dollars. Yay.

you are right, it is all out war by Christie, however, his war has only one enemy, and that is public employees. Let us not forget it is his admin that lost NJ the race to the top money, and it is also his admin that continues tax breaks for the wealthy. Finally, it is his admin that pays his "techies", who are glorified facebook message writters more than your average teacher.

This is not a partisan issue. There has been corruption in the governor's office in NJ for years which helped to start this mess. Also, I am not taking blame away from the NJEA. They are a major part of the problem, trust me. I am a resistant member

 

[EasyEJL]

you are right, it is all out war by Christie, however, his war has only one enemy, and that is public employees. Let us not forget it is his admin that lost NJ the race to the top money, and it is also his admin that continues tax breaks for the wealthy. Finally, it is his admin that pays his "techies", who are glorified facebook message writters more than your average teacher.

This is not a partisan issue. There has been corruption in the governor's office in NJ for years which helped to start this mess. Also, I am not taking blame away from the NJEA. They are a major part of the problem, trust me. I am a resistant member

That "war" is on public employees because thats where the budget dollars go, and as statistical analysis shows they get paid more than private sector, work less hours, and have crazily higher benefits. To make up for the deficit its either that or raise taxes. Again, the state has some of the highest taxation already, it brings in a reasonable $ amount per resident, it needs to work with some fiscal control on spending.

And as Urban Monk's quote shows, an independent group examined the applications and determined it was the failure of the majority of the school boards to come to an agreement and support the proposal that led to the loss not the budgetary number mistakes. So again, the ornery self serving public service unions lead to layoffs of their own members rather than even take a pay freeze.

 

[AE14]

That "war" is on public employees because thats where the budget dollars go, and as statistical analysis shows they get paid more than private sector, work less hours, and have crazily higher benefits. To make up for the deficit its either that or raise taxes. Again, the state has some of the highest taxation already, it brings in a reasonable $ amount per resident, it needs to work with some fiscal control on spending.

And as Urban Monk's quote shows, an independent group examined the applications and determined it was the failure of the majority of the school boards to come to an agreement and support the proposal that led to the loss not the budgetary number mistakes. So again, the ornery self serving public service unions lead to layoffs of their own members rather than even take a pay freeze.

In terms of a freeze, just curious....where was the freeze in the Christie admin? You do realize that a freeze is not just a one year issue, correct?

In terms of less time, I have worked in both public and private and I put far more time into the public sector and got paid far less. One of the main reasons for the change of career had to do with security that I was not offered in banking.

 

[EasyEJL]

In terms of a freeze, just curious....where was the freeze in the Christie admin? You do realize that a freeze is not just a one year issue, correct?

In terms of less time, I have worked in both public and private and I put far more time into the public sector and got paid far less. One of the main reasons for the change of career had to do with security that I was not offered in banking.

Well, you as an individual may happen to work more hours now, but the average public server sector works 20% less hours than the private sector person, with 4% less base pay yes, but something like 30-40% more in benefits. Thats from US department of labor statistics.

I'm not sure how the rest of the portions of public employees were being dealt with in the state, so I'm not sure what was done with other civil servants as far as pay/contract changes. But I can be pretty sure just by the math that he couldn't make a balanced budget starting with a 4.3 billion deficit just by changes to the teachers.

 

[AmyFetzer]

Im going to run........ hell it couldnt hurt having me in office at this rate haha

 

[AE14]

Well, you as an individual may happen to work more hours now, but the average public server sector works 20% less hours than the private sector person, with 4% less base pay yes, but something like 30-40% more in benefits. Thats from US department of labor statistics.

so you are basing this on hours of the work day, not hours where work is being done. I remember many times sitting in my cube/office doing diddly, yet being paid wonderfully for it. I used to say that if a chimp could talk, they could do my job (in banking)

I'm not sure how the rest of the portions of public employees were being dealt with in the state, so I'm not sure what was done with other civil servants as far as pay/contract changes. But I can be pretty sure just by the math that he couldn't make a balanced budget starting with a 4.3 billion deficit just by changes to the teachers.

right now in NJ target one was teachers. I dont think teachers are thrilled about being the target, however, it is the way he has done. He has been demeaning to all of education and has even said that teachers are using kids as "drug mules" b/c kids were protesting cuts. What he is not realizing is, that the cuts were not just affecting layoffs, but extracurricular programs that these kids want. I know several districts that cut certain sports programs due to lack of funds. So much for educating the whole child

After teachers its on to firefighters and police. LEts see him spend some time in Newark after cutting police :rofl:

 

[EasyEJL]

so you are basing this on hours of the work day, not hours where work is being done. I remember many times sitting in my cube/office doing diddly, yet being paid wonderfully for it. I used to say that if a chimp could talk, they could do my job (in banking)

Its based on hours worked as reported to the US Dept of Labor. You can't tell me you don't think that plenty of public service employees aren't playing with themselves during their workday as well. I've know enough in county and state local offices that spend most of their day on facebook and youtube.

right now in NJ target one was teachers. I dont think teachers are thrilled about being the target, however, it is the way he has done. He has been demeaning to all of education and has even said that teachers are using kids as "drug mules" b/c kids were protesting cuts. What he is not realizing is, that the cuts were not just affecting layoffs, but extracurricular programs that these kids want. I know several districts that cut certain sports programs due to lack of funds. So much for educating the whole child

After teachers its on to firefighters and police. LEts see him spend some time in Newark after cutting police :rofl:

Yeah, that does suck. But again, where is the money supposed to come from? Sure Newark would suck more (not like it doesn't suck now) after cuts, but how many NJ residents would vote for raising their property taxes by 15-20% to make up for the budget shortfall?

 

[AE14]

Its based on hours worked as reported to the US Dept of Labor. You can't tell me you don't think that plenty of public service employees aren't playing with themselves during their workday as well. I've know enough in county and state local offices that spend most of their day on facebook and youtube.

I am sure there are some, but I have seen countless, who like me are in at 6:45am and are there till after 4pm. Thats the problem people seem to have. They b!tch and moan that we get out early, yet fail to realize that while they are sipping coffee in the am, watching the news and hanging with family, we are on our way in or already in for a while. Its not as easy as many think.

Yeah, that does suck. But again, where is the money supposed to come from? Sure Newark would suck more (not like it doesn't suck now) after cuts, but how many NJ residents would vote for raising their property taxes by 15-20% to make up for the budget shortfall?

What christie seems to not care about is that he is pushing many good teachers out. Many are heading for retirement earlier than expected and many are going to leave. So in essence, he will lower education in the state, not lower property taxes, and the families will still pay high taxes but not have the school systems to warrent it. Kinda foolish