Could a prohormone help low testosteroone???

AlterEdge78

New member
So far i ran 2 PH cycles. The first one was great, Spawn. More than 6 months later i ran Infinite Labs Cyclobolan. This is S-Drol and H-Drol. Well i had some nasty side effects 2 weeks into this one. Blood pressure through the roof, awful headaches, hair loss, and sore nipples. I immediately hopped right onto PCT. I felt very lethargic and almost like i was hitting shutdown. After about 2 weeks PCT i felt great, but i went to the doctor and had my bloodwork ran to check my testosterone levels. He said they were low at 271.

So he wanted me back in 6 months to recheck. Well here i am now in may and i originally tested in Sept of last year. So here i am 8 months later, and my testosterone level is now lower at 215. I have only been taking fish oil, arginine, and ZMA since then and my test decreased.

First of all, would anyone here be alarmed if theyre test was that low. Im not feeling much of a loss in libido. I do get lethargic unexplainably sometimes. My DR says well wait 3 more months to see what happens and that i shouldnt feel my test being so low. I asked him about running another cycle of Spawn to bring up my test levels again. He was agains it and said it would just suppress my test levels. I was told by other people that the Spawn could bring my test back up again and maybe higher, then if i run my PCT correctly i should be able to maintain my mass and my test levels. Anyones thoughts or knowledge on this would be greatly appreciated.


Ill be honest, with summer practically here i deperately want to run a Spawn cycle. Please anybody help!
 
What was your free testosterone at? And e2/estradiol? SHBG? LH and FSH? We need to know that stuff to help you out.
 
if your going to use anything , it should be testosterone -a short acting ester using say every 2 weeks or something like sustanon 250 to use every 4 weeks.Replace like with like.imo
i just wonder if he has acknowledge your test levels are low why he has not suggested testosterone replacement therapy However it could be that just because it is low , it might still be within the reference range.

The body will recover even without a pct but it can take from what ive read up to 4 months.
 
I'd hop on clomid for 6 weeks at 50mg.
 
May I ask what did you used for PCT at your second cycle?
I hope it was not OTC PCT.

Novaldex might be a good choice to rebuild your testo level.
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re-run a cycle might help, might not help. Chinese say when a woman physically got worse due to having a baby, the best resolution is to have another baby and take good care this time. But who knows, maybe another baby will just make things even worse. You got to take the risk if you decide to do this.
 
to answer the origional question, No, a prohormone wont raise your test lol, itl lower it in the end. like someone said hop on clomid, and stay away from cycles!!!
 
Okay, this is what I suggest:

Get some HCG, take it at 100IU ED for 2 weeks, this will simulate your bodies natural LH secretions at full volume without desensitizing the testicles to your own LH. The leydig cells in the testicles are the most resistant part of the HPTA to recovery after a cycle, they also take the longest to recover.

After the HCG, I would begin taking some kind of aromatase inhibitor that you can comfortably take for an extended period of time, begin taking at a standard dosage (so like 0.5mg adex/d or 12.5mg exemestane/d) and take for four weeks and get retested. If it still comes back low, keep taking it for another 4 weeks, get tested again.

If you're still not recovered at this point, I would try to find some HMG which mimics both FSH and LH and is more powerful for recovering your testicles ability to produce test. Take HMG for 2-4 weeks, then get back on an anti-e and try again.

Remember, that while on the aromatase inhibitor or other anti-e your test levels will be high due to the lowered estrogen content, when you stop taking the anti-e your test will drop again, but will hopefully now remain in the normal range... so you need to get your test levels in the upper end of the range or higher while on the anti-e for them to remain normal when you come off of them and are "natural"

The good news is tho u have low test it's almost in the normal range, if you could even get it above 300 your libido and everything should be fine... But while on anti-e's even when your test is high your libido/mood etc may be off because of the lowered estro.

I strongly recommend getting fully recovered before hopping on another cycle and digging the hole deeper.
 
I have a copy of my bloodwork and other than my cholesterol panel i see it says testosterone level....215 out of range. It looks like they only ran a lipid panel, a comprehensive metabolic panel showing creatine,co, ast,alt,etc, and my testosterone.
 
My PCT was OCT Reversitol since it was all i had at the time. I mean the reversitol helped a lot, so it felt like it did anyway. I never had my test level ran by the Doc before my cycle of cyclobolan. Im wondering if i did have low test levels for a while now and didnt know it. My diet was usually on point with eating lean meat, whole grains, healthy fruits and vegetables and drinking whey protein 4-5 times a day. I was always hitting atleast 2 grams of protein per pound of lean mass.All this and working out hardcore, and barely putting on muscle mass. I mean i know i want to stay lean too but still.

Ive been lifting weights since i was 17 but only the last 4 years been consistant. I was overweight and almost 200 lbs. I lost a lot of fat after a year and just lifted trying to put on mass. I see a little difference but not much. My strength goes up sometimes but not the muscles....just trying to fill everyone in on some details.

I do know however i wont be doing any cycles anytime soon. Spawn perhaps in the future but definately not till im fully recovered. Id like to thank everyone for their help so far with this. It makes me nervous.

Just curious, could saw palmetto be stalling my testosterone from returning at all. I still take it 5 times daily since i had prostate pain before.
 
HCG can be used but it is better for on-cycle support to minimize shutdown.

The problem was the PCT partic. with a bad reaction to an S-drol cycle.

The guys here have it sorted for you. Ask the primary (?) to send you to an endo for clomid treatment.

Don't do any cycle until you've got your PCT nailed + the low test is sorted.

The test levels BTW depend on your age.
 
AlterEdge78 said:
Just curious, could saw palmetto be stalling my testosterone from returning at all. I still take it 5 times daily since i had prostate pain before.
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I'd get that checked out. Enlarged prostrate ... we're not old enough.

Without dosage impossible to say. However, it shouldn't it just knocks out the DHT response. If anything it might slightly increase test. If you have low test however I don't think saw palmetto is a good idea.
 
Although I am not a firm SERMs believer and I am not sure if SERMs are for all kinds of compounds, I have to say you really need SERMs for S-drol.

Anyway, maybe your body doesn't feel that you need that high testo (as you said it doesn't really influence your normal life, which is good), so it recover very slowly.

There are some Chinese medicine which help for endocrine balance, but no gaurante that it will increase your testo.... I think all suggestions here are valuable in some ways, but you got to find out what suit you....

be patient and good luck.

AlterEdge78 said:
My PCT was OCT Reversitol since it was all i had at the time. I mean the reversitol helped a lot, so it felt like it did anyway. I never had my test level ran by the Doc before my cycle of cyclobolan. Im wondering if i did have low test levels for a while now and didnt know it. My diet was usually on point with eating lean meat, whole grains, healthy fruits and vegetables and drinking whey protein 4-5 times a day. I was always hitting atleast 2 grams of protein per pound of lean mass.All this and working out hardcore, and barely putting on muscle mass. I mean i know i want to stay lean too but still.

Ive been lifting weights since i was 17 but only the last 4 years been consistant. I was overweight and almost 200 lbs. I lost a lot of fat after a year and just lifted trying to put on mass. I see a little difference but not much. My strength goes up sometimes but not the muscles....just trying to fill everyone in on some details.

I do know however i wont be doing any cycles anytime soon. Spawn perhaps in the future but definately not till im fully recovered. Id like to thank everyone for their help so far with this. It makes me nervous.

Just curious, could saw palmetto be stalling my testosterone from returning at all. I still take it 5 times daily since i had prostate pain before.
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Just curious, i had sex the night before my bloodwork. Could this decrease my already low test levels of previous 271???
 
AlterEdge78 said:
Just curious, i had sex the night before my bloodwork. Could this decrease my already low test levels of previous 271???
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I don't think so....
but testo level can be various indeed.... weight training can increase testo up to 37% naturally even til next day morning, but over trained can decrease the level.
tbh, I am not very convinced that your testo level is even lower than last time. Your body has it's variable range of testo, the machine also has it's error range, imo the reading can only say you have a low level testo in general after cycle (what's the original testo level before cycle?). I don't know if your insurance allow it, but I think a double test would be good, though your doctor might think it's a waste.
 
Any steroid (or PH) you use will lower your natural test, not increase it.
I would try a Torem + hcg restart. I'm not completely sure on the dosages, but I would do it something like: hcg @ 1000ius 2X/week (2.5 weeks with a 5000IU vial) stacked with Torem @ 120/100/80/80/80. If that doesn't do the trick, there is always TRT.
 
Gator 87 said:
Any steroid (or PH) you use will lower your natural test, not increase it.
I would try a Torem + hcg restart. I'm not completely sure on the dosages, but I would do it something like: hcg @ 1000ius 2X/week (2.5 weeks with a 5000IU vial) stacked with Torem @ 120/100/80/80/80. If that doesn't do the trick, there is always TRT.
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True 95% of the time. Some guys end up with a higher level post cycling of a substance.

Possibly pure luck, but the human body is crazy so if every thing works juuust right, it could be achieved through "bouncing" it higher then maintaining it. Probably requires insane luck and perfect timing of dosing of certain chemicals. But to treat already low test, not likely.



Now if you do have low T (depending on your age) this may not be the worst thing in the world. Being on TRT gives you reasons to have test in your body and needles around ^.^ Same thing with diabetes...you can let it run your life, or use it to your advantage.(Think Wolf).

I never used a steroid(at best I used Formistane) but I plan on getting Test levels checked before i run goodies. If its low, I am going the peptide route instead.
 
Zero V said:
True 95% of the time. Some guys end up with a higher level post cycling of a substance.
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I could see that potentially happening with a SERM for PCT, but in that case he would certainly get better results by skipping the cycle and going straight for the Torem.
 
OK, since i started this post, the low T has been really getting to me. My libido is worse, i keep feeling lethargic and lazy, and I have no motivation to go to the gym. I swear it feels like i have sunburn on my body when i take my shirt off or on, like my skin is sensitive and hurts easily. When I get mad about something and all i do is grumble, like i just lost that edge i used to have. And my strength went down a little so far. This sucks, and im irritable. My next Dr visit isnt until end of July. He said if my test was still low hed prescribe me a test gel. I dont know if i can wait that long. Im thinking about calling him and see if i can get it sooner. This is awful!!!:damnit:
 
do some novedex xt, and some clomid. a ph will probably end up making things worse, diesel test pro cycle is another good product to add in as well
 
OP, go back and read post #16. It's either that or the crappy gel TRT that your doc wants to put you on.
At this point it could do much more good than harm.
 
Well i called the Dr office and said i desperately need help,the nurse was like why and i told them im lethargic and lost my libido, and the nurse said ok ok ill let the dr know. Got a little fire under her @ss when i went there. So i just picked up my Testim Gel. Its 1% test to start. Hope ill feel it quickly, i start tomorrow morning. And my copay was $70....Ouch...Hope this stuff works. When i go back to him in July im telling him i was the injections cause i cant afford the gel.
 
AlterEdge78 said:
Well i called the Dr office and said i desperately need help,the nurse was like why and i told them im lethargic and lost my libido, and the nurse said ok ok ill let the dr know. Got a little fire under her @ss when i went there. So i just picked up my Testim Gel. Its 1% test to start. Hope ill feel it quickly, i start tomorrow morning. And my copay was $70....Ouch...Hope this stuff works. When i go back to him in July im telling him i was the injections cause i cant afford the gel.
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You do realize that TRT is for life, right? (hope you don't want kids)
 
I have 2 beautiful little girls and have no plans for anymore. At this point i just want to feel normal again. I feel like a weak p@ssy all the time now.
 
AlterEdge78 said:
I have 2 beautiful little girls and have no plans for anymore. At this point i just want to feel normal again. I feel like a weak p@ssy all the time now.
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Well, in that case, go for it!
Just try to switch to injections ASAP, as the gel is weak, messy, inconvenient, expensive, and can rub off on women and children (I don't know how likely this is to cause side-effects, but I've heard warnings of it).
 
You need to get on clomid.. 4-6 weeks at 50mg a day. Take 100mg for the first few days. You'll never get your testosterone levels back if you keep complaining about it. Take action. Either try the clomid, or get on TRT..
 
gamer2be08 said:
I saw, but I still say you could of restarted with clomid....
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really AlterEdge78 you're a moron for going the hrt route when you never tried the clomid route first, hrt is the ****iest last resort available and non reversible and no where near the test levels your body could produce on it's own.
 
Al Swearengen said:
really AlterEdge78 you're a moron for going the hrt route when you never tried the clomid route first, hrt is the ****iest last resort available and non reversible and no where near the test levels your body could produce on it's own.
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1) Its his body, so he can do whatever the hell he wants. You aren't his doctor.

2) There is nothing wrong with HRT if you can get a Rx and don't mind becoming sterile. Matter of fact, I can't wait till I'm old enough to get a script.

3) HRT doses are usually tailored to put patients in the very high end of normal (like 800ng/ml). Why the hell would endos not give you a full HRT dose? Besides, the whole reason he is doing this is because his test levels sucked anyway. It isn't like he is 17 with 1000ng/ml.
 
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