ARMS
- Thread starter bi0hazurd
- Start date
russy_russ
Active member
5x5 is not a wise program for muscular hypertrophy.
Resolve
The BPS Rep
5x5 is just fine. 8 or 10x5 is better.
OP, you'll add the most size to your arms with heavy presses and pulls, supplemented with good form isolation movements.
Narrow-grip bench, Push-press, weighted dips, weighted chins, supinated rows, cleans, preacher curls, incline db curls, hammer curls, db exts in various angles, kneeling rope exts, lock-outs.
russy_russ
Active member
Actually no. Specifically for muscular hypertrophy a 5x5 routine is not optimal. It is not "just fine".
EctoMeso
Guest
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Resolve
The BPS Rep
For a beginner it can provide good results in both size and strength. For a more advanced lifter, I agree that more volume is necessary, hence the 8x5 to 10x5.
The majority of the muscle I have gained has been through utilizing sets of 1-6. Higher rep sets are included occasionally, but are hardly the mainstay.
russy_russ
Active member
It depends on the outcome goals set as to which volume/intensity/frequency program would be most beneficial. I'm not saying with a 5x5 program you cannot induce muscular hypertrophy (regardless of the type of hypertrophy), just it isn't the best program to induce such results per the outcome goals. I, myself, typically lift in the same range as you; however, I lift mainly for strength and not hypertrophy.
BBB
Well-known member
Whenever I want to add size to my arms I use the old Vince Gironda routine. This routine only works for natual builders for some reason. Try working your arms first at every workout for six weeks, no longer. Work them out at least three times/week, no more. Stay in the 6-7 set, 8-12 rep range and employee the muscle confusion principle. This works for me everytime.
Resolve
The BPS Rep
Fair enough, I can agree that there are many factors that contribute to hypertrophy.
Type O Hero
Banned
It's all relative to the person. That's why you have to tinker with all of this before you can find what works best for you. Some people are just more inclined for building muscle and strength, so they could employ a broader range of training techniques that would probably all work for them. This is why you may see a kid with a natural jock-type build in your gym training like he hasn't got a much of a clue what he's doing yet still making some progress. Some people, like myself, require a more methodical approach. I'm just saying that what works well for one may not work as well for another. This is why trail and error are so important when it comes to bodybuilding.
By all means, experiment. If someone gives you advice that sounds good, try it out if you want. If you get something positive out of it, fantastic, you know you've found something that works for you. If you don't get anything out if it, that type of training just doesn't suit you.
I will share that in my experiences, I've found that I get the most out of my arms when I'm doing more work for my larger muscle groups and less direct arm work. For example, I may do some heavy back work and then finish with a couple sets for biceps just so I can work them through a full range of motion. I could easily tack on 30 minutes of biceps work after a back routine and have fun doing it, but I would get less out of it. Make sense?
By all means, experiment. If someone gives you advice that sounds good, try it out if you want. If you get something positive out of it, fantastic, you know you've found something that works for you. If you don't get anything out if it, that type of training just doesn't suit you.
I will share that in my experiences, I've found that I get the most out of my arms when I'm doing more work for my larger muscle groups and less direct arm work. For example, I may do some heavy back work and then finish with a couple sets for biceps just so I can work them through a full range of motion. I could easily tack on 30 minutes of biceps work after a back routine and have fun doing it, but I would get less out of it. Make sense?
bi0hazurd
Active member
That CAN NOT possibly be real
TheLastRonin
Active member
Log it for us! :beerchug:
bi0hazurd
Active member
what?
TheLastRonin
Active member
The program you posted as not being real...as in test it on yourself and let us know..:eek13:
EctoMeso
Guest
its number 1 in google, it has to be good lol
TheLastRonin
Active member
Thats not what the article states at all lol. Did you even read it?
timmmah
Active member
This is text from the article: "swelling begins to occur from increased water retention by the muscle fiber itself. This water retention appears to stay for a few days or more with very heavy resistance training. In fact, participants in a 1998 training study were reported to maintain tissue swelling for up to seven days post-exercise! Over a long enough period, however, the cell would surely return to normal size."
Later in the article it is stated that the routine is repeated to maintain arm size.
Did we read the same article?
TheLastRonin
Active member
Yes grasshopper but you missed 2 key points.
1.Thus, swelling seems to be the culprit, but the story doesn't end there. The permanent effect--the reason we seem to have been able to hold part of our gains (one-quarter-to a half an inch) for several months at the time of this writing--is from our continued training. Since returning to our normal training programs, we've maintained the size, meaning we've maintained the overall volume of the tissue simply because we began another breakdown process before the muscle fibers completely returned to normal. In the long run, this may pose a problem, as effects of the swelling-repairing process can overcome your gains if you don't strike the proper balance of training and recuperation. That's a matter of ongoing scientific discovery.
2. Other scientific studies regarding this kind of workout simply don't exist. In the scientific community, the only people crazy enough to try this were in the lab with me that day. Yet some explanations could theoretically be responsible for the gains.
Let's first look at mechanisms for muscle hypertrophy. We know that muscle size increases by increasing the thickness of the myofilaments, or protein strands, within the contractile portion of the muscle. We also know that the number of myofibrils, the contractile structure made up of myofilaments, increase with training. Some research has shown that it may also be possible for muscle fibers themselves to split, known as hyperplasia, after which the new fibers increase in size, although this hasn't been well documented in human beings. Lastly, the entire cellular structure--all the proteins, cell walls and other material that supports and anchors the contractile machine itself--increases in overall size and thickness via training.
The last one is less likely but viable, the first is more interesting. Even to keep a 1/4 inch from one workout for a trained bb'r is pretty amazing. Of course routine would be needed to maintain arm size and overall size..it goes for strength too lol. If you stop working out you would lose that muscle mass. Pretty simple concept.
It seems like an interesting experiment to do as well. I know bodybuilders of old did something similar with squats. There is more at play then water retention or a massive blood pump.
timmmah
Active member
Some research has shown that it may also be possible for muscle fibers themselves to split, known as hyperplasia, after which the new fibers increase in size, although this hasn't been well documented in human beings.
I want to believe that a full days workout can make huge arms that last and create new muscle fibers on top of the already pre-determined amount each of us have(genetics). I would be first on the bandwagon if this were true. Hyperplasia occurs in organs,like testicles and titties and prostates, I wish it were proven that it does occur in muscle, but it isn't.
Therefore until someone real shows me that this crazy workout is for real- I'll grow the way I have been, with a proper routine, diet and rest.
I want to believe that a full days workout can make huge arms that last and create new muscle fibers on top of the already pre-determined amount each of us have(genetics). I would be first on the bandwagon if this were true. Hyperplasia occurs in organs,like testicles and titties and prostates, I wish it were proven that it does occur in muscle, but it isn't.
Therefore until someone real shows me that this crazy workout is for real- I'll grow the way I have been, with a proper routine, diet and rest.
EctoMeso
Guest
WOW IVE STARTED SOMETHING LOL..... so whos gonna try it!!!
timmmah
Active member
Wish I had the time. If someone else proves it works though, I'll find the time
Red Dog
Well-known member
For the biceps, I like to throw in dumbbell incline curls to try to improve the width specifically -- I can never remember the sweet technical names for the exercises or muscles or whatever, but just sit on a high incline bench so that your arms are positioned significantly behind your body. The movement is intended to hit the brachialis specifically (I think)..
TheLastRonin
Active member
Yea I know it isn't proven which is why I said 1. was more interesting. It is indeed a crazy workout haha. It would be fun to try if nothing was planned for the next few days :tongue2:. I don't disagree with your methods but too bad you don't live near me we could try it out and see for ourselves. I need to convince one of my buddies to try it in the wintertime I spose.
Here is some interesting articles you might like though pertaining to 2. Its hard to pinpoint it in humans because of the method of measuring it.
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timmmah
Active member
Those articles were interesting, wish it were true, thank you. We could try the workout though, just to prove a point, I guess.
TheLastRonin
Active member
Perhaps in the wintertime we could do the workout and post our results online..we just need some willing partners...I have a helper from work I might be able to abuse lol.
Red Dog
Well-known member
haha timmah jimmy... timmah..
I love that av name and that character and when Jimmy does his Timmy impression.. sorry, I just wanted you to know that I appreciate your name.
