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Log - First cycle ever - Superdrone LV

Sweet Log! Are you at all concerned about using clen with SD though? I would be very careful to monitor heart rate on that cut cycle.
 
metalman said:
Sweet Log! Are you at all concerned about using clen with SD though? I would be very careful to monitor heart rate on that cut cycle.
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I've played sports since I was 4. I was a dinstance runner all my life so my heart is in great shape and is used to operating at higher rates for extended periods of time. My typical resting heart is pretty low as well. Usually around 58 or lower. I'll also be taking lower amounts of both SD and Clen so I think I'll be ok. My only real concern is dehydration. I'll have to be extra careful on the SD/Clen cycle to keep well hydrated.
 
AmericanJambo said:
I've played sports since I was 4. I was a dinstance runner all my life so my heart is in great shape and is used to operating at higher rates for extended periods of time. My typical resting heart is pretty low as well. Usually around 58 or lower. I'll also be taking lower amounts of both SD and Clen so I think I'll be ok. My only real concern is dehydration. I'll have to be extra careful on the SD/Clen cycle to keep well hydrated.
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I rdont see any problem with this at all. My advice tho is buy a heart rate monitor and keep an eye on BP but to be honest id advise this in any cycle.
 
if you feel you are beginning to loose strength on pct, consider adding in usp labs prime
Or a test booster combo product like AI's testopro
should bring back testes production faster
also with nolva, make sure to stop it/replace it if you start having any sort of vision issues as some people are very sensetive to it.
 
djremix said:
if you feel you are beginning to loose strength on pct, consider adding in usp labs prime
Or a test booster combo product like AI's testopro
should bring back testes production faster
also with nolva, make sure to stop it/replace it if you start having any sort of vision issues as some people are very sensetive to it.
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It does happen but its unusual with Nolva a far more common side of Clomid however
 
actually its more prevalent in nolva, less so with clomid.
some studies which i saw long ago.
and it happened to me on nolva but not clomid.
high dosages are a big factor aswell.
 
Glad to see this cycle worked out great for you. I'm going to be running an SD pulse with Clen and T3 May 1st. After seeing your results i'm pumped to get started.
 
Hi guys,

I just finished my 4 week cycle of SD. Had good results, gained about 15 lbs. Could anyone advice me on how long i should wait until doing another cycle. And also what i could add to it to help increase gains...thanks!!
 
djremix said:
actually its more prevalent in nolva, less so with clomid.
some studies which i saw long ago.
and it happened to me on nolva but not clomid.
high dosages are a big factor aswell.
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I disagree 100% and happy to debate it. Id bet my last $ if u took a poll and compared eyes sight issues Clomid/Nolva from those who have used as it relates to AAS that the numbers wuld not be very good for you

Nonsense
 
edwitt said:
I disagree 100% and happy to debate it. Id bet my last $ if u took a poll and compared eyes sight issues Clomid/Nolva from those who have used as it relates to AAS that the numbers wuld not be very good for you

Nonsense
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Alright so maybe I wasn't wrong, I was going to say I quite often hear of it with Clomid, and not as much with Nolva.
 
HereToStudy said:
Alright so maybe I wasn't wrong, I was going to say I quite often hear of it with Clomid, and not as much with Nolva.
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I was quite sure but i went away and did some research and I also asked several people with far more experience than myself
 
Newb we live and we learn

GRAPEFRUIT JUICE

this just gave a whole new meaning to the grapefruit diet

I will be adopting this protocol going forward, the studies i have read are very compelling, interested to hear from AM members personal experiences with this

This was brought to my attention this morning by a learned member, i have been doing some research and with the help of "copy and paste" i present to you




grapefruit inhibits the enzyme CYP3A4. This enzyme is responsible for breaking down substances through 6beta-hydroxylation. grapefruit only inhibits CYP3A4 in the small intestine. The enzyme is also found in the liver, but grapefruit does not affect it there. Less CYP3A4 in the small intestine means that a large group of substances is more easily absorbed by the body.

Between 17 and 46 percent of these hormones leave the body in the 6beta-hydroxylated form.


Basically, if you drink 250ml of grapefruit juice with your oral medications, it will increase their absorbtion, blood serum concentrations, etc...There was a study done specifically with some 17A drugs, but I decided not to copy it here. The article I did copy (below) is alot more reader-friendly and less technical.
If you are too lazy to read the article, here's the summary:
Drink 250ml of grapefruit juice (thats 8.4 ounces) with your oral steroids, and you just need to drink it once per day, even if you take your orals spread out throughout the day.
I've seen studies where absorbtion of some drugs was increased by up to 500%! (I read this study)
Also...before you ask about the effects of grapefruit juice on oral rec drugs the answer is YES, this applies to ALL ORAL MEDICATIONS/DRUGS infact xanax for example has a warning on the label as do many other prescription drugs

Bottom line adopting this protocol will give you more bang for your $buck, of the 75mg of VAR a day i am ingesting more will be absorbed by the body so the effect is as of having taken a higher dose :)

Here's the article:

James Maskalyk
Editorial Fellow, CMAJ

Grapefruit juice interacts with a number of medications. This unusual discovery was made serendipitously in 1989 during an experiment designed to test the effect of ethanol on a calcium-channel blocker.1 The observed response was later determined to be due to the grapefruit juice delivery vehicle rather than the alcohol. In the past decade, the list of drug interactions with grapefruit juice has expanded to include several classes of medication, precipitating a recent advisory from Health Canada.2

The interaction: As little as 250 mL of grapefruit juice can change the metabolism of some drugs.3 This drug–food interaction occurs because of a common pathway involving a specific isoform of cytochrome P450 — CYP3A4 — present in both the liver and the intestinal wall. Studies suggest that grapefruit juice exerts its effect primarily at the level of the intestine.4

After ingestion, a substrate contained in the grapefruit binds to the intestinal isoenzyme, impairing first-pass metabolism directly and causing a sustained decrease in CYP3A4 protein expression.5 Within 4 hours of ingestion, a reduction in the effective CYP3A4 concentration occurs, with effects lasting up to 24 hours.6 The net result is inhibition of drug metabolism in the intestine and increased oral bioavailability. Because of the prolonged response, separating the intake of the drug and the juice does not prevent interference.

Individuals express CYP3A4 in different proportions, those with the highest intestinal concentration being most susceptible to grapefruit juice–drug interactions.5 An effect is seen with the whole fruit as well as its juice, so caution should be exercised with both.7 The precise chemical compound in grapefruit that causes the interaction has not been identified. There is no similar reaction with orange juice, although there is some suspicion that "sour oranges" such as the Seville variety, may have some effect.8 A recent study, however, that tested the known interference of grapefruit juice with cyclosporine showed no similar effect with Seville oranges.9

There is some interest in the potential therapeutic benefit of adding grapefruit juice to a drug regimen to increase oral bioavailability.3 The limitation is the individual variation in patient response. However, if the chemical that causes grapefruit's CYP3A4 inhibition is elucidated, there may be an opportunity to modulate that pathway in a controlled fashion.

What to do: Much of the data obtained on grapefruit juice–drug interactions involved measuring serum drug concentrations in small numbers of healthy volunteers. Because of the limited data and only occasional case reports,10 it is difficult to quantify the clinical significance for individual patients. One may assume that the interaction occurs primarily with oral medicines, and only with those that share the CYP3A4 metabolism pathway, with the consequence being increased oral bioavailability, higher serum drug concentrations and associated adverse effects.

Physicians should review medication lists often, with the goal of warning patients about adverse interactions. A list of medicines with which patients should not consume grapefruit is provided in Table 1.3,11,12 In the case of several medications that share the CYP3A4 metabolism pathway, but for which a clinical effect has not been elucidated or is theoretical, patients should be advised to consume grapefruit cautiously and be monitored for toxicity.



 
Maybe we need to learn not to hijack someone's log. Good discussion guys, but could used to be moved to another thread.
 
4/5/2010

Weight 209. Lost a pound and a half but my measurements have stayed the same and my strength is still going up. PCT is going good. I feel great. Can't wait to run my next cycle.
 
Another thing I've noticed since I've been on my PCT is how N.O. and C.E.E. affect me. Before I would never get an extra pump from them. I would get more energy and a bit more strength but never any extra pump. Now that my muscles are harder from the SD cycle I'm getting amaing pumps from my NO-xplode/C.E.E. It's great.
 
AmericanJambo said:
Another thing I've noticed since I've been on my PCT is how N.O. and C.E.E. affect me. Before I would never get an extra pump from them. I would get more energy and a bit more strength but never any extra pump. Now that my muscles are harder from the SD cycle I'm getting amaing pumps from my NO-xplode/C.E.E. It's great.
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Also because taking a break from these products on cycle makes them that more effective in PCT IMO
 
TheDarkHalf said:
Also because taking a break from these products on cycle makes them that more effective in PCT IMO
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No, there's a difference for sure. Even when I first started taking NO-xplode and C.E.E. I never got any extra pumps from them. I was actually surprised because now I get skin splitting pumps that I've never gotten before, even on the SD cycle I didn't get pumps like this. It's great.
 
AmericanJambo said:
No, there's a difference for sure. Even when I first started taking NO-xplode and C.E.E. I never got any extra pumps from them. I was actually surprised because now I get skin splitting pumps that I've never gotten before, even on the SD cycle I didn't get pumps like this. It's great.
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Notice I said in addition to or "also", meaning that both factors (the break from the products and the cycle) have impacted the way these products affect you. Unless you did NOT take a break from these products there is really no way to be 100% sure it was the cycle alone. More than likely both factors play in to what you are experiencing now.

Good **** though I only hope I see similar results! :AR15firing:
 
dude, they both cause problems. thats not the issue

it all depends on how high the dosages are, and people tend to take a lot more of nolva, which is more potent per mg on a relative basis.

either way. ive done both personally and i threw the nolva away after using it twice, clomid i still keep. so take it as you like.
 
Can somebody please help me out and let me know how long I should wait to do another SD cycle? I finished my first one two weeks ago....thanks~!
 
HereToStudy said:
Jambo, how is PCT?
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Doing good so far. I've lost a little bit of strength and about 2 pounds but my measurements haven't gone down at all so that's good. I think the lack of strength may be due to allergies. It's really hard for me to catch my breath while working out. A few of the other guys in the gym are having the same problem.
 
LOL when you said how is pct I thought you was talking to the new guy. I read it too fast.
 
bjh1918 said:
I have been following and copying Jambo's cycle to the T
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I wouldn't follow my cycle to a "T". I had to make adjustments to it through out the cycle to account for different issues. I would have started with a higher dose of Hawthorn berry and I would have preloaded it. I would have also preloaded 200mg of co-enzyme Q-10 as well. Probiotic and digestive enzymes from the beginning as well as greater water intake.

Now, in regards to waiting between cycles the standard is about 60 days after completion of a 4 week PCT. Nolva is working great for my PCT. I took 20mg a day for the first week and have been on 10mg a day since as well as Sustain Alpha, which I started before PCT. BUT, I had almost NO testicular atrophy. Maybe 15-20% decrease in size at the very most. My body has rebounded very quickly but then I've always healed and adapted quickly. You may require a larger amount of nolva. As such the greater your shut down/testicular atrophy is, the longer you should wait before running your next cycle. Don't get greedy. Remember body building is a marathon, not a sprint. You have the rest of your life to get big.
 
Jambo, you've inspired me. My 2 week preload was over last wednesday and I'm now 3 days into my superdrone. I posted my log here:

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Jambo...Thanks for keeping this thread updated often. I'm right behind you doing a similar cycle, and learning a lot from yours. I'm interested in your PCT results because I start my PCT next week. Keep it up!
 
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