Test E/Dbol/Winni

Chrometurtle

New member
Wanting to know what type of gains could be expected running a cycle like this...and if anything should be modified indefinately. PCT already good. First time, so just tryin to get my foot in the door.

Week 1 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Dbol 30mg (daily)
Week 2 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Dbol 30 mg (daily)
Week 3 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Dbol 30 mg (daily)
Week 4 - Test E 250 mg (week)
Week 5 - Test E 250 mg (week)
Week 6 - Test E 250 mg (week)
Week 7 - Test E 250 mg (week)
Week 8 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Winni 50 mg (daily)
Week 9 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Winni 50 mg (daily)
Week 10 -Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Winni 50 mg (daily)
 
Chrometurtle said:
Wanting to know what type of gains could be expected running a cycle like this...and if anything should be modified indefinately. PCT already good. First time, so just tryin to get my foot in the door.

Week 1 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Dbol 30mg (daily)
Week 2 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Dbol 30 mg (daily)
Week 3 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Dbol 30 mg (daily)
Week 4 - Test E 250 mg (week)
Week 5 - Test E 250 mg (week)
Week 6 - Test E 250 mg (week)
Week 7 - Test E 250 mg (week)
Week 8 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Winni 50 mg (daily)
Week 9 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Winni 50 mg (daily)
Week 10 -Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Winni 50 mg (daily)
Click to expand...

:261: if you think this is a good set up then your pct has to be complete sh@t as well.i don't even know were to start.What is your age,training,diet,stats,exp...
 
Chrometurtle said:
Wanting to know what type of gains could be expected running a cycle like this...and if anything should be modified indefinately. PCT already good. First time, so just tryin to get my foot in the door.

Week 1 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Dbol 30mg (daily)
Week 2 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Dbol 30 mg (daily)
Week 3 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Dbol 30 mg (daily)
Week 4 - Test E 250 mg (week)
Week 5 - Test E 250 mg (week)
Week 6 - Test E 250 mg (week)
Week 7 - Test E 250 mg (week)
Week 8 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Winni 50 mg (daily)
Week 9 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Winni 50 mg (daily)
Week 10 -Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Winni 50 mg (daily)
Click to expand...

where did you dream this up?
 
Chrometurtle said:
Wanting to know what type of gains could be expected running a cycle like this...and if anything should be modified indefinately. PCT already good. First time, so just tryin to get my foot in the door.

Week 1 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Dbol 30mg (daily)
Week 2 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Dbol 30 mg (daily)
Week 3 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Dbol 30 mg (daily)
Week 4 - Test E 250 mg (week)
Week 5 - Test E 250 mg (week)
Week 6 - Test E 250 mg (week)
Week 7 - Test E 250 mg (week)
Week 8 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Winni 50 mg (daily)
Week 9 - Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Winni 50 mg (daily)
Week 10 -Test E 250 mg (week) / Oral Winni 50 mg (daily)
Click to expand...

welcome to AM... What a way to kick of your first post, careful that foot doesnt get caught on the way out

:dump:
 
I just thought Winni would help me lean out towards the end....I know the Test E injections are on the low end. About 25 years old but never experienced with any AAS...just prohormones. Not a good idea to end with Winni?? Running Aridmidex during and Nolva/HCG about 2 weeks after. Just wanted to see where that cycle would fit in...obviously I need to readjust.
 
Chrometurtle said:
I just thought Winni would help me lean out towards the end....I know the Test E injections are on the low end. About 25 years old but never experienced with any AAS...just prohormones. Not a good idea to end with Winni?? Running Aridmidex during and Nolva/HCG about 2 weeks after. Just wanted to see where that cycle would fit in...obviously I need to readjust.
Click to expand...
Don't run hCG post cycle. It should be used on-cycle. Google 'swale hcg protocol'.

I see no point to running 250mg/week. There are guys who run over a gram of Test a week with minor sides. The sides won't be much different between 250mg/week and 500mg/week. Either way you will experience HPTA suppression so you might as well get something out of it.

Winstrol won't "lean you out", your diet will. Trying to bulk and cut on the same cycle is somewhat counter-productive. Also, don't expect much in the way of "hardness" or whatever you're trying to achieve with Winstrol unless your bodyfat is already very low.

You should cut before you run your cycle. If your bodyfat is already as low as you want it, you shouldn't have to worry about gaining much fat on-cycle so long as your diet is in check.
 
Chrometurtle said:
I just thought Winni would help me lean out towards the end....I know the Test E injections are on the low end. About 25 years old but never experienced with any AAS...just prohormones. Not a good idea to end with Winni?? Running Aridmidex during and Nolva/HCG about 2 weeks after. Just wanted to see where that cycle would fit in...obviously I need to readjust.
Click to expand...

Its not a bad first attempt as long as its just research at this point. People can be kind of harsh IMO to those who are just asking questions. I will totally ream someone out if they post a cycle and say - "I'm in day 12 of this cycle is it good?" You, however, asked before starting or buying anythinng so you deserve constructive criticism.

0) Before you cycle you should make sure your diet and training are in check. This is point 0 because it should be in place before you even consider a cycle of AAS.

1) My suggestion for your first cycle is NOT to run any orals. Run the test e solo. Dbol cause a lot of sides for me, which I was able to control but only because I knew how my body felt on just the test e. The winni is also unnecessary.

2) Never, ever run hCG during PCT. hCG is an LH mimicker, causing your testes to produce testosterone but suppressing your body's natural LH production. Therefore running hCG during PCT will hinder your recover not aid in your recovery.

3) You must run hCG on cycle, starting week 3 and continuing throughout the cycle up until you start pct. This will keep your testes active despite being on testosterone and thus prevent atrophy of the testes which can permanently shut them down.

4) For on cycle you need to have an aromatase inhibitor on hand in case your test converts to estrogen too quickly and you start to see estrogen related sides will on. I recommend arimidex.

5) You PCT needs a SERM (I prefer clomid), a natural test booster (I prefer sustain alpha from PP), a cortisol control (I prefer lean xtreme) and you may want to run an AI after the SERM to prevent bounce back estrogen. I personally would also run post cycle support by AI and creatine. You want want a pre WO supp to help get the pump going when ur in pct.

Those are some basics. I'd say do some research, stay lean for the summer and by September/October maybe you'll be well enough educated on the subject matter to run a cycle. That'd my recommendation. Good luck bro.
 
Libertarian said:
Don't run hCG post cycle. It should be used on-cycle. Google 'swale hcg protocol'.

I see no point to running 250mg/week. There are guys who run over a gram of Test a week with minor sides. The sides won't be much different between 250mg/week and 500mg/week. Either way you will experience HPTA suppression so you might as well get something out of it.

Winstrol won't "lean you out", your diet will. Trying to bulk and cut on the same cycle is somewhat counter-productive. Also, don't expect much in the way of "hardness" or whatever you're trying to achieve with Winstrol unless your bodyfat is already very low.

You should cut before you run your cycle. If your bodyfat is already as low as you want it, you shouldn't have to worry about gaining much fat on-cycle so long as your diet is in check.
Click to expand...
All good remarks. I should point out, I know for a fact lib isn't suggesting running a gram of test a week. He was just saying its been done. I think 500mg/wk is a good starting point. 250mg/wk is barely replacing the body's natural test production for a 25 year old. Maybe a minor boost.
 
Chrometurtle said:
I just thought Winni would help me lean out towards the end....I know the Test E injections are on the low end. About 25 years old but never experienced with any AAS...just prohormones. Not a good idea to end with Winni?? Running Aridmidex during and Nolva/HCG about 2 weeks after. Just wanted to see where that cycle would fit in...obviously I need to readjust.
Click to expand...


:damnit1:

Let me guess.
Somehow you came upon a bottle of juice. More then likely you big time over paid for it, and figure this way you only need 1 vial of test to run a whole cycle.

:nono:

Listen.

Put the pin down and step away!

You have a lot more research to do before you even think about running an inject cycle,or any other type of cycle for that matter.

Look. Don't take this as being harsh, but. If you need to ask things like this you have no business useing AAS.

JP.
 
CrazyChemist said:
All good remarks. I should point out, I know for a fact lib isn't suggesting running a gram of test a week. He was just saying its been done. I think 500mg/wk is a good starting point. 250mg/wk is barely replacing the body's natural test production for a 25 year old. Maybe a minor boost.
Click to expand...
Right, I wasn't suggesting it, but if you do it let us know what happens :cool:.
 
Nope, I'm good to go with everything. Thanks for the advice and comments...I'll save some Winni for a cut cycle. I'll just run 500 mg of Test E for 10 weeks and 30 mg of Dbol for 7 weeks. Got my mind correct...and to edwitt for commenting on my thread. Way to put on 80 lbs. of fat in 11 months...
 
Chrometurtle said:
Nope, I'm good to go with everything. Thanks for the advice and comments...I'll save some Winni for a cut cycle. I'll just run 500 mg of Test E for 10 weeks and 30 mg of Dbol for 7 weeks. Got my mind correct...and to edwitt for commenting on my thread. Way to put on 80 lbs. of fat in 11 months...
Click to expand...


Guess you didnt bother to look at the updated pictures after just 59 days of cutting mate, 232lbs @ same body fat as when i started :)

You cant blame me for giving you a hard time you just joined and this was your first post, an ill thought out cycle. Personally i believe its important for you to research a cycle endlessly, you need to know exactly what it is your taking and why possible sides and remedies etc

You did however get some excellent advice here from fellow members, i just suggest you continue to research.

Good luck
 
Chrometurtle said:
Nope, I'm good to go with everything. Thanks for the advice and comments...I'll save some Winni for a cut cycle. I'll just run 500 mg of Test E for 10 weeks and 30 mg of Dbol for 7 weeks. Got my mind correct...and to edwitt for commenting on my thread. Way to put on 80 lbs. of fat in 11 months...
Click to expand...

Drop the dbol. Even if youre going to run dbol, running 7 weeks is very stupid. You might as well put yourself on the liver transplant list now. Youre going to get yourself in trouble by stacking. Run the test e at 500mg solo. :damnit1: Now i'm getting a little irritated. Either take my advice or don't ask for it.
 
If you really want to run the dbol run the dbol weeks 1-4 25-50mg a day. Run the test e 500mg a week for 12 weeks pinning twice a week for instance monday and thursday. If your test e is 250mg/ml which i assume it is you will need 3 vials to get your full 12 weeks. Save the winni for a cutting cycle later on down the road.
Make sure you take liver relief which can be bought OverTheCounter or milk thissle which you can get at any grocery store to help your liver out... DO NOT drink alcohol unless you want your liver to fail.
Im hyper-sensitive to Gyno i personally run arimidex on cycle always so have it on hand in case problems arise. Or run it from the start .5mg Ed or EOD although this will hinder your gains slightly it will protect your body so its up to you you know your body better than anyone else.
Order 5000 iu Hcg, inject it sub-q every 4 days at 250iu from week 3 untill 10 days before you start your pct. i personally just grab a pinch of stomach from below my belly button like a diabetic would and inject with an insulin syringe. Make sure when you order the Hcg you order a mixing kit as well which will come with syringes, bac water, and a mixing vial. I reconstitute the Hcg with 5ml of bac water, so for every ml there is 1000 iu of Hcg the breakdown from that is 25 on the insulin syringe being 250 iu.
PCT run clomid and nolvadex i would start 14 days after the last time you pin the test e.
Week 1 clomid 100mg, nolva 40 mg
week 2-3 clomid 50 mg, nolva 20 mg
week 4 clomid 25mg, nolva 10 mg
If you feel the need to run an OverTheCounter test booster as well then pick one up and run it

Dont forget to take your daily vitamins i like body fuels-natural selection... and your essential fatty acids. i like body fuels EFA complete

Thats the best i can do to help you out alot of people will get pissed off at you for running anything other than a test only first cycle. There is a good point behind this you want to know how YOUR body reacts to the test alone but at the end of the day it is YOUR body so you are going to do what you want to do with it. If this were not your first cycle people would be telling you to throw dbol in to kick start your cycle. Dbol is a great way to kick start your cycle and people experience big gains from using it.
Anyway make sure you have everything you need before you start your cycle.. i personaly procrastinate and order my pc while on cycle but this is not a good idea its best to have everything you need when you start.
Goodluck
 
CrazyChemist said:
Drop the dbol. Even if youre going to run dbol, running 7 weeks is very stupid. You might as well put yourself on the liver transplant list now. Youre going to get yourself in trouble by stacking. Run the test e at 500mg solo. :damnit1: Now i'm getting a little irritated. Either take my advice or don't ask for it.
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Yeah, 7 weeks of Dianabol is really pushing it. Probably not worth the risk. You should listen to CrazyChemist, he put a good amount of effort into giving you some good info in his first post. Most noobs aren't afforded that kind of help.

Personally, I'm a fan of running Dianabol at the end of a Test-E cycle. As Test levels are slowly dwindling, it's nice to have Dianabol there to finish the cycle strong and with more steady levels. What I might do is run Dianabol the first 3 weeks, take 4 weeks off to give your liver a break, and pick it up again the last 3 weeks. Dianabol is often ran at moderate levels for 6 straight weeks without any big problems and doing it this way would be even safer.
 
Yeah, I appreciate all the advice from everyone. I'm positive my body will be able to handle dbol for my first cycle. I may take lib's advice and run the dbol towards the end of a test cycle to help me finish off strong. Just wanna try to make the most out of what I have to work with and I'm doin my reading and research but it always helps when guys tell me how to run it based of their experience.
 
People tend to flame folks who want to run anything other than solo-Test for their first cycle. I definitely see the advantages to keeping it simple the first time around and a solo-Test cycle can yield excellent gains. That said, based my own experience with Dianabol, I'd say that it is pretty mild as far as side effects go. In fact, I didn't notice anything negative when running 50mg/day. A couple times I felt what could have been subtle signs of back-pumps, but it wasn't enough for me to bother grabbing my big sack of Taurine powder in my cupboard.
 
The reason why you would run dbol at the beginning of your cycle would be to kick start it. The effects of the test wont kick in for a few weeks whereas dbol will kick immediately another advantage to running it at the beginning of your cycle would be that you have 8 weeks to solidify the gains made from the dbol. or you can run it at the end of the cycle but dont be surprised when you deflate like a balloon that just got popped
 
Libertarian said:
People tend to flame folks who want to run anything other than solo-Test for their first cycle. I definitely see the advantages to keeping it simple the first time around and a solo-Test cycle can yield excellent gains. That said, based my own experience with Dianabol, I'd say that it is pretty mild as far as side effects go. In fact, I didn't notice anything negative when running 50mg/day. A couple times I felt what could have been subtle signs of back-pumps, but it wasn't enough for me to bother grabbing my big sack of Taurine powder in my cupboard.
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Everyone reacts differently to different supps. Dbol for me yielded alot of sides. I could tell I had a lot more estrogen floating around. My skin was much oilier, acne, back pumps, i was flushed, my bp went up significantly and my nipples got really puffy. This did NOT happen with straight test. I needed an AI when on dbol but did not need one after i stopped the dbol.

The truth is, until you run something you don't know how the side effects will affect you. That is why I think running one new compound solo is the way to go. The OP said he had experience with PHs. Why not run an oral PH you are familiar with for the first few weeks to jump start the cycle and same at the end. This way you know what sides to expect with the cmpd you are familiar with and you can assess what new/exacerbated sides you get from the test.

I can see the OP running the test/dbol stack with sides like I had, starting an AI, then coming off the dbol but not knowing if he still needs teh AI and having to chance either hindering his gains by staying on the AI or risking sides by going off it.

I know there is a desire to run the "perfect, most powerful" cycle right out of the gate but I support running the test solo once, then for a 2nd cycle stacking orals with test, then (only if desired) stacking the test/orals with either deca (for more mass) or tren (for a leaner mass) for a third cycle. I don't think you should be stacking for the first run with AAS, IMHO.

However, I do see your point Lib. There isnt anything intrinsically wrong with running dbol for the first 3 and/or last 3 weeks of a cycle. Just a lot of changes to the body of an unexperienced user all at once.
 
CrazyChemist - I definitely see the advantages of running solo Testosterone for a first cycle. Idealy this would be the way to go. I guess what I'm saying is that as far as adding a second compound, I think Dianabol is comparatively fairly low risk. The half-life is so short you can play with the dose to determine if the negative sides your experiencing are caused by the Dianabol you're taking. Opting to run Dianabol only on the tail of the cycle could make it even easier. Still, like I said, solo-Test is always the safest route, and can yield excellent gains.

As far as estrogen floating around, yeah, that is a valid concern especially with Dianabol. That's why I make at least a low-dosed AI a part of every aromatizing cycle I run. I've found that when running 50mg/day of Dianabol, 0.25mg EOD-E3D is the "sweet" spot for me when it comes to getting my estrogen where I want it.
 
Libertarian said:
CrazyChemist - I definitely see the advantages of running solo Testosterone for a first cycle. Idealy this would be the way to go. I guess what I'm saying is that as far as adding a second compound, I think Dianabol is comparatively fairly low risk. The half-life is so short you can play with the dose to determine if the negative sides your experiencing are caused by the Dianabol you're taking. Opting to run Dianabol only on the tail of the cycle could make it even easier. Still, like I said, solo-Test is always the safest route, and can yield excellent gains.

As far as estrogen floating around, yeah, that is a valid concern especially with Dianabol. That's why I make at least a low-dosed AI a part of every aromatizing cycle I run. I've found that when running 50mg/day of Dianabol, 0.25mg EOD-E3D is the "sweet" spot for me when it comes to getting my estrogen where I want it.
Click to expand...

I agree completely.
 
Great feedback guys. I just wanna kick start my cycle by using a 30 mg/week Dianabol for maybe the first 3-4 weeks and then just run test e. at 500 mg/week. Prolly pin twice a week...Sun & Wed. Just wanna make the most out of my first run.
 
Chrometurtle said:
Great feedback guys. I just wanna kick start my cycle by using a 30 mg/week Dianabol for maybe the first 3-4 weeks and then just run test e. at 500 mg/week. Prolly pin twice a week...Sun & Wed. Just wanna make the most out of my first run.
Click to expand...

Thats a fine first cycle. Make sure you post a list of everything you have on hand before you start the run so you got everything you might need. For example, have an AI on hand, have ur pct on hand (SERM + natural T-booster + AI to prevent bounceback + cortisol control + creatine + support supps found in post cycle support), have milk thistle and cycle support for "on" (you realy only need to run the milk thistle while on the orals).... umm... that shld be everything. Keep us posted and good luck bro. You're going to LOVE being on :439: its addictive.
 
I got enough Milk Thistle for liver prot. during the cycle. Got Nolva if needed during but for sure PCT and Arimidex during cycle . Usually use a natural test boost (Tribulus, Chrysin, Saw Palmetto, etc.) during PCT too. Sounds like I will run HCG through most of the cycle, 250 iu 2x/week. Dunno why creatine would be a necessity for PCT though??
 
Chrometurtle said:
I got enough Milk Thistle for liver prot. during the cycle. Got Nolva if needed during but for sure PCT and Arimidex during cycle . Usually use a natural test boost (Tribulus, Chrysin, Saw Palmetto, etc.) during PCT too. Sounds like I will run HCG through most of the cycle, 250 iu 2x/week. Dunno why creatine would be a necessity for PCT though??
Click to expand...

Umm definitely run hCG throughout. 250iu 2x/wk is a fine starting dose but you might want to bump to 500iu 2x/wk after a few weeks as tolerance will build up.

Creatine during pct is a personal preference not a necessity. Some ppl think the water retention helps the muscles stay hydrated to the point where lifts in the gym are better and catabolism is avoided. Others do not have the same effect. Again, personal preference not necessity.
 
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