Sigh... HCG

[Wandy]

i'm sure this has been beaten to death so i figure i'll give it a few more whacks for good measure. as far as i can tell, the risks of using hcg far outweigh the rewards. no one seems to know the right way to do it, and i don't see how there can be so many "right ways" to use such a powerful hormone. "do it the whole cycle... no do it for pct... no do it only for a few weeks before pct... don't screw up or you're impotent". i'm supposed to give one of these methods a shot and see what works best for me.... but the idea of trying something like this to see what works best seems like a risky maneuver given the consequences.. ie. never having children.

i'm tempted to just let my body recover naturally the way i always have (though still using nolva... so somewhat naturally). i've read from multiple sources that using it for too long can desensitize the leydig cells, that using too much all at once at the end of a cycle can do the same, and that using it for pct is pointless. what is the best way to run hcg during a 16-week cycle?

 

[Libertarian]

Go by what Dr. Crisler recommends. He's one of the world's most reputable sources when it comes to HPTA recovery related to AAS use.

 

[GLHF]

for 16 weeks:

week 5-10 500iu/week hcg
week 15-17 1000iu hcg every 3 days

ur 16th week is ur last week of aas, then take 2 weeks off so u start PCT 18th week and by 17th week ur done with HCG.

^this works, and prob many will agree on that.

 

[Wandy]

for 16 weeks:

week 5-10 500iu/week hcg
week 15-17 1000iu hcg every 3 days

ur 16th week is ur last week of aas, then take 2 weeks off so u start PCT 18th week and by 17th week ur done with HCG.

^this works, and prob many will agree on that.

looks pretty good, i'd really like to give this method a try... my only problem now is that i only have (and can only get) 5000 ius. if the hcg expires in 45 days, is there any way to do this properly on a long cycle like this? i have 5ml of ba water and 5000 ius of hcg.

 

[Libertarian]

for 16 weeks:

week 5-10 500iu/week hcg
week 15-17 1000iu hcg every 3 days

ur 16th week is ur last week of aas, then take 2 weeks off so u start PCT 18th week and by 17th week ur done with HCG.

^this works, and prob many will agree on that.

Where did you get this protocol?

If you're worried about your Leydig cells then you definitely shouldn't be pinning 1000iu at a time.

Like I said, google the Dr. Crisler (aka SWALE) Protocol. Everyone I've heard of using it loved it, including myself. Again, Crisler knows what he's talking about. There is a reason why people fly from all over the world just to have face-to-face appointments with him.

 

[ZoomZoom88]

Ive always read run it only during cycle... Im about to run a cycle and thats what im going to do. If you are running test E id run it 250iu every injection. 1000iu e3d is way over kill. Never run it during pct.

 

[Wandy]

Where did you get this protocol?

If you're worried about your Leydig cells then you definitely shouldn't be pinning 1000iu at a time.

Like I said, google the Dr. Crisler (aka SWALE) Protocol. Everyone I've heard of using it loved it, including myself. Again, Crisler knows what he's talking about. There is a reason why people fly from all over the world just to have face-to-face appointments with him.

i've read his protocol, 250iu's twice a week the entire cycle. it sounds like the best idea compared to what a lot of people are doing... but i've read more than a few times from different sources that running hcg "for too long or at too high of a dose" can cause desensitization. a total of 32 shots over the course of 4 months, to me, sounds like it would cause desensitization (then again what do i know). low doses for the entire cycle would apparently yield the best results, but would running it for less time, say 5-6 weeks at the end of the cycle up until pct be less risky and almost as effective? it will also cost twice as much to do it the way he is suggesting, given the shelf life of hcg.. so i'll have to buy another 5000 ius. obviously cost is the lesser concern but if running it for the last 6 weeks of the cycle will still work... i'm all for it.

 

[Libertarian]

Read through this thread: Invalid Link Removed

 

[crazyfool405]

for 16 weeks:

week 5-10 500iu/week hcg
week 15-17 1000iu hcg every 3 days

ur 16th week is ur last week of aas, then take 2 weeks off so u start PCT 18th week and by 17th week ur done with HCG.

^this works, and prob many will agree on that.

kinda how my boy dave P does it except not on cycle.

I do something similar as well but not on cycle unless the length of my cycle exceeds 16 weeks

works for me,

Us an AI or nolva while using hCG to prevent lesions on leydig cells and sensitizing your body to it.

 

[JeffD]

i'm sure this has been beaten to death so i figure i'll give it a few more whacks for good measure. as far as i can tell, the risks of using hcg far outweigh the rewards. no one seems to know the right way to do it, and i don't see how there can be so many "right ways" to use such a powerful hormone. "do it the whole cycle... no do it for pct... no do it only for a few weeks before pct... don't screw up or you're impotent". i'm supposed to give one of these methods a shot and see what works best for me.... but the idea of trying something like this to see what works best seems like a risky maneuver given the consequences.. ie. never having children.

i'm tempted to just let my body recover naturally the way i always have (though still using nolva... so somewhat naturally). i've read from multiple sources that using it for too long can desensitize the leydig cells, that using too much all at once at the end of a cycle can do the same, and that using it for pct is pointless. what is the best way to run hcg during a 16-week cycle?

What does your cycle consist of for 16 weeks?

 

[Wandy]

Read through this thread: Invalid Link Removed

very informative thread, but i'm still unsure of what could happen running hcg for 16 straight weeks. one guy quotes a doctor that says it could take 10-15 years for desensitization to occur, another doctor says it could occur in any dose going over 1000ius, and then dr. scaley is saying it will never occur. which of these credible sources do you chose to believe? they are all legitimate md's. listening to one of them and going by their protocol is rolling the dice. dr. scaley might very well be flat out wrong.

What does your cycle consist of for 16 weeks?

leaving out all of the details regarding diet/supplements...

50mgs tbol week 1-6
500mg test e week 1-16
nolva week 18-21 (40/40/20/20)

i'm leaning towards using hcg from week 8 up until the week before pct (week 17 being the last week i use hcg), 250ius on injection days (mon/thurs). i don't like the idea of doing it for that long so i may start at a later week, and then use 250ius eod week 16 and 17.

 

[JeffD]

1000iu e3d is way over kill. Never run it during pct.

Even though the only existing scientific study on HPTA restoration after androgenic steroid use says you should?

Invalid Link Removed

Guys use massive amounts of AAS with little to no thought about permanent damage to the HPTA, but a few weeks of hCG will desensitize you for life? Most (what little there is) of the literature says:

The usual protocol is to inject 1500-3000 I.U. every 4th or 5th day, for a duration usually no longer than 2 or 3 weeks. If used for too long or at too high a dose, the drug may actually function to desensitize the Leydig's cells to luteinizing hormone, further hindering a return to homeostasis.

You can look up the PoWer PCT protocol, but the abstract I pasted above pretty much covers it. The dosages have changed a bit according to Dr. Scally. It now looks like this:

hCG: 2000iu EOD x 20 days
Clomid: 50mg BID x 30 days
Nolva: 20mg BID x 45 days

There is also science out there now saying that nolva helps block hCG induced leydig cell desensitization:

Invalid Link Removed

It's alot to think about, but don't limit yourself to what the "bros" are saying is right, just because it's what everyone is doing. That's never been a logical way to choose anything.

Good luck.

 

[crazyfool405]

Even though the only existing scientific study on HPTA restoration after androgenic steroid use says you should?

Invalid Link Removed

Guys use massive amounts of AAS with little to no thought about permanent damage to the HPTA, but a few weeks of hCG will desensitize you for life? Most (what little there is) of the literature says:

The usual protocol is to inject 1500-3000 I.U. every 4th or 5th day, for a duration usually no longer than 2 or 3 weeks. If used for too long or at too high a dose, the drug may actually function to desensitize the Leydig's cells to luteinizing hormone, further hindering a return to homeostasis.

You can look up the PoWer PCT protocol, but the abstract I pasted above pretty much covers it. The dosages have changed a bit according to Dr. Scally. It now looks like this:

hCG: 2000iu EOD x 20 days
Clomid: 50mg BID x 30 days
Nolva: 20mg BID x 45 days

There is also science out there now saying that nolva helps block hCG induced leydig cell desensitization:

Invalid Link Removed

It's alot to think about, but don't limit yourself to what the "bros" are saying is right, just because it's what everyone is doing. That's never been a logical way to choose anything.

Good luck.

yep thats true....

 

[crazyfool405]

the second pdf is the one your looking at

 

[JeffD]

Yep, those are the full studies. Nice post.

 

[GLHF]

Thats wat i was saying hCG should be run at 1000s ui for a short amount of time. All the posters above jumped right at me when i said 1000 UI every 3 days.