Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

Help with Havoc

robhccc

New member
Had a few q's regarding primaforce havoc.

my stats -
Height 5"10
weight 220 muscular with a little bodyfat i want to lose
25 years old

I am about to start a cycle. doing annabolic innovations cycle support while using havoc.
also going to keep taking my multivitamin, fish oil, and tons of protein.

What I am inquiring about is Post Cycle. When do you start a post cycle and what should i include?

Please dont post telling me to take nolva or chlomid as these are not even options for me.

I was thinking post cycle from annabolic innovations, (they have never done me wrong) Along with multivitamin, fish oil, creatine, and protein. I need over the counter products that i can buy online. I want to make sure that my post cycle therapy is the best i can possibly make it without nolva or chlomid.

I know from what I have read that havoc should not be taken lightly. I will be keeping to a strict diet high in protein and low in carbs unless i need them. I am already kind of beast and there is no such thing as shutting down with me. What do u think of my post cycle plans? anything you would take out or add, this will be my first cycle with havoc. I finished a cycle of advanced muscle science 1-androsterone recently and liked it overall, but i am not looking to just add mass, i want to lose some bodyfat while getting bigger and stronger. anything you can tell me that i need to know would be greatly appreciated , thanks for your time. Rob
 
nolva and clomid are not legal, it is a crime to order nolva or clomid. i work for a government agency and can not and will not order nolva or clomid. There has to be a safe way to PCT without using Nolva or Clomid. Havoc's Toxicity is mild compared to alot of other things that I would never use. With those "other things" Nolva or Clomid can be a must, but with havoc there has to be another way.

A friend of mine used 1-androsterone and just simply loaded creatine and protein as his PCT and he may have lost a little, but overall hes still got it. I appreciate your replies, but I dont wanna hear about clomid or nolvadex. There has to be something legal that can do similar things.

Please help me come up with a PCT for havoc that doesnt involve clomid or nolvadex. I understand that I may lose some of the strength and size, and thats ok. I just don't want to hurt my internal organs.
 
robhccc said:
nolva and clomid are not legal, it is a crime to order nolva or clomid. i work for a government agency and can not and will not order nolva or clomid. There has to be a safe way to PCT without using Nolva or Clomid. Havoc's Toxicity is mild compared to alot of other things that I would never use. With those "other things" Nolva or Clomid can be a must, but with havoc there has to be another way.

A friend of mine used 1-androsterone and just simply loaded creatine and protein as his PCT and he may have lost a little, but overall hes still got it. I appreciate your replies, but I dont wanna hear about clomid or nolvadex. There has to be something legal that can do similar things.

Please help me come up with a PCT for havoc that doesnt involve clomid or nolvadex. I understand that I may lose some of the strength and size, and thats ok. I just don't want to hurt my internal organs.
Click to expand...

It isn't really about not hurting your organs or even keepig gains. It's more for getting your hormones back to normal after the cycle. Havoc can shut you down and I have seen it happen. Everybody Is different but I think the risk outweighs the reward. IMHO if you can run a serm as part of pct after havoc you have no business takig havoc in the first place. You can buy all the legal supp stacks they sell, pay 3x the price, and it will never work as well as a serm. You asked for advice and got it it seems like you're going to run it anyways so good luck.
 
robhccc said:
nolva and clomid are not legal, it is a crime to order nolva or clomid. i work for a government agency and can not and will not order nolva or clomid. There has to be a safe way to PCT without using Nolva or Clomid. Havoc's Toxicity is mild compared to alot of other things that I would never use. With those "other things" Nolva or Clomid can be a must, but with havoc there has to be another way.

A friend of mine used 1-androsterone and just simply loaded creatine and protein as his PCT and he may have lost a little, but overall hes still got it. I appreciate your replies, but I dont wanna hear about clomid or nolvadex. There has to be something legal that can do similar things.

Please help me come up with a PCT for havoc that doesnt involve clomid or nolvadex. I understand that I may lose some of the strength and size, and thats ok. I just don't want to hurt my internal organs.
Click to expand...

You also seem to think the reason for a pct is to protect the organs?? I think you should do a little more research.
 
robhccc said:
nolva and clomid are not legal, it is a crime to order nolva or clomid. i work for a government agency and can not and will not order nolva or clomid. There has to be a safe way to PCT without using Nolva or Clomid. Havoc's Toxicity is mild compared to alot of other things that I would never use. With those "other things" Nolva or Clomid can be a must, but with havoc there has to be another way.

A friend of mine used 1-androsterone and just simply loaded creatine and protein as his PCT and he may have lost a little, but overall hes still got it. I appreciate your replies, but I dont wanna hear about clomid or nolvadex. There has to be something legal that can do similar things.

Please help me come up with a PCT for havoc that doesnt involve clomid or nolvadex. I understand that I may lose some of the strength and size, and thats ok. I just don't want to hurt my internal organs.
Click to expand...

If you are not able to use Nolva/Clomid/Torem than do NOT take Havoc, END OF STORY, that is the safe way, by NOT taking any of thoes you can say bye bye to the gym an hello to probably many hospital visits. Do more research.... BTW wrong forum
 
Just because your friend didn't see any sides doesn't mean they aren't there.You can legally get SERMs bro. Try googling research chemicals.

What does baffle me though is you are against taking SERMS but not taking steroids?
 
Dang guys lighten up, you sound like a bunch of jackass's.
To the OP, There are plently of options out there. I recommend looking into Primordial performance's TRS (testosterain recovery stack). This is a great pct for a havoc cycle. Sounds like you have everything else in order, get ready your going to love it.
 
gymaddict20 said:
Just because your friend didn't see any sides doesn't mean they aren't there.You can legally get SERMs bro. Try googling research chemicals.

What does baffle me though is you are against taking SERMS but not taking steroids?
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like he is against breaking the law and possible losing his job,
 
I guess thats exactly what I am using this forum for, to get informed and get knowledge of what the hell I am doing. I have never used pro-hormones before or any other supplement besides maybe some N-O explode and protein and creatine. I want to get the big gains and get cut. I eat a healthy diet and work out 5to 6 times a week. I need help fellas, thats what this is about, I wanna know what I can do to lose some body fat and get some cut in my physique. I am not saying havoc is the answer or anything is the answer, I just want some help from you guys that I know are in good shape and maybe can help me out. I am ok with not using anything except for what you tell me. I wont do steroids, sorry i didnt realize that Havoc was a steroid? they sell it on amazon.com

so guys I ask just to express some knowledge to me and let me know what I can do to lose some excess body fat and get leaner. I am big and strong, but big and strong is not cut and lean. 5"10 220 kinda sounds fat to me. Im not fat, but i could lose some body fat. just whatever help you guys can give me I would seriously appreciate it, I am getting married in september and want to be in the best shape of my life.

thanks again guys
 
you can get serms legally... it is completely legal to order research chems. If you have a problem doing this, do not use havoc. yes, it IS a steroid.. it is just not currently illegal. Do your research before you put stuff in your body.

No SERM = No Havoc, unless you want to kill your natural test levels, shut down your testes, and risk never getting it back. Be smart about what you do. You can get SERMS, you can get them legally...

Of course the other issue is your hangup on your weight... what is your bodyfat percentage... i mean if you are 5'10 220 and 25% bf you shouldnt be touching havoc anyway... and if you are 5'10 220 and 12% bodyfat and bitching your fat.... then you have no place taking havoc because the results you want are not what steroids are for... just jog 10 miles a day and dont touch weights and you will drop to a nice girlish weight range for ya.
 
Agreed, not trying to be a prick here. I cant stress enough how important SERMS are. I have seen and experienced first hand the shut down caused by Havoc aka Epistane. Havoc is in fact a steroid not to say you still cant purchase it legally. The same goes for research chemicals. I agree with robkaige, with your currents stats I would stay away from the juice.
 
Body Fat is not the issue and no one is going to run 10 miles a day. I played baseball in college and am a pretty healthy 220. I am looking to get the lean look. I have big arms and a big chest, I just dont have the definition. I want the definition. what do I have to do to get the definition and not just a big strong body.
 
robhccc said:
Body Fat is not the issue and no one is going to run 10 miles a day.
Click to expand...


if your not down for doing the cardio to shred.. no hope for ya.
if your not looking to be big and strong hit your cardio... lose your muscle and fat and you can be a 165 brad pitt type. or, build your muscle, be happy being a 220lb'r like any sane guy and get cut by diet and cardio.

and when cutting... ive been known to hit 8-10 miles on my cardio only days, and do 2.5-5 post workout on lifting days... so dont give me that "no one is going to run 10 miles crap... just because you are lazy doesnt mean everyone is.

Put in the work or get nothing out of it. Period. even on steroids you need to put in the work... no magic pills here.
 
ok so what does your cardio look like.

I warm up with a mile run 7-8 minutes.

Hit the weights for about an hour or more.

Cool down by running a slow mile (10) minutes.
then i go home.

I lift Monday Wednesday Friday and Saturday, Obviously Different Muscle groups.

Tuesday and thursdays I hit a 3 -4 mile run. Sunday is a recovery day.

is distance cardio really what i need? I am a finance major in college and I can crunch numbers, but the human body and all the crap you can do to change yourself , I am clueless.

what does your cardio look like. what do i need to change. I feel like i do put in alot of work, lol I am the only one i know who has pushup bars at my office. what should i be doing. and these 8-10 miles. is this interval running or are you just putting on distance shoes?

thanks again i am new to this forum thing and i can tell i love it already, quick reliable responses, thanks everyone
 
first off what does your diet look like, how many calories are you eating.

to start, on your lifting days put all of your cardio AFTER your workout. ill hit the first mile at full speed, then interval for the remainder... do at least 20min... though for your goals 30 is probably prime. should be able to get at least 3 miles on that... on the interval keep it at a good strong resistance.

then, on off days... 60min, same protocol, keep your sunday recovery day.

After that you need to work on your diet.
 
last thing, I am finishing up 1-andro rx from ironmag labs in a week or so. For my pct i am just using creatine and protein, multi vitamin, and fish oil, along with cycle support from annabolic innovations.

I didnt get anything out of 1 andro rx from ironmag labs. I think it may be a fraud, is there anything else i can take that help get my hormone levels balanced out over the counter. even though i am skeptical that 1 andro rx from ironmag labs has done anything at all.
 
robhccc said:
I am a finance major in college and I can crunch numbers, but the human body and all the crap you can do to change yourself , I am clueless.
Click to expand...
robhccc said:
last thing, I am finishing up 1-andro rx from ironmag labs in a week or so. For my pct i am just using creatine and protein, multi vitamin, and fish oil, along with cycle support from annabolic innovations.
Click to expand...

Couple of Huge problems with your thread here:

1. This is the SUPPLEMENTS forum. See the threads at the top that say: "PS/Steroid talk doesn't go here"? They're talking to you. There is a forum for these questions...it's called the Anabolics forum.

2. If you are clueless about fitness and supplements, then why in the hell are you taking a Pro Hormone?

3. You're not running a proper PCT with your PH. It doesn't matter if you "felt" it. The fact is 1-Androstene-3b-Ol,17-One converts to 1-Test. You need to run a SERM with it man. Have fun with the gyno!

4. Finance majors are just people who can't cut it in the CPA program! :joke: ...kinda

5. What was your diet like on 1-Andro RX? Lots of guys have used it and gained great. Methinks you need to read up on nutrition as well.


Not trying to completely ball you out (ok, maybe I am), but people like you are the reason our precious supplements are being ripped from us. People (usually kids) take this stuff without knowing what the hell they're doing, and end up getting hurt somehow. This usually leads to another round of witch hunting against the fitness supplement industry.
 
Have you checked out otcpct(dot)com
 
rampage jackson said:
Couple of Huge problems with your thread here:

1. This is the SUPPLEMENTS forum. See the threads at the top that say: "PS/Steroid talk doesn't go here"? They're talking to you. There is a forum for these questions...it's called the Anabolics forum.

2. If you are clueless about fitness and supplements, then why in the hell are you taking a Pro Hormone?

3. You're not running a proper PCT with your PH. It doesn't matter if you "felt" it. The fact is 1-Androstene-3b-Ol,17-One converts to 1-Test. You need to run a SERM with it man. Have fun with the gyno!

4. Finance majors are just people who can't cut it in the CPA program! :joke: ...kinda

5. What was your diet like on 1-Andro RX? Lots of guys have used it and gained great. Methinks you need to read up on nutrition as well.


Not trying to completely ball you out (ok, maybe I am), but people like you are the reason our precious supplements are being ripped from us. People (usually kids) take this stuff without knowing what the hell they're doing, and end up getting hurt somehow. This usually leads to another round of witch hunting against the fitness supplement industry.
Click to expand...

Exactly what i have been saying... his nutrition is obviously not up to par, his goals are ridiculous, and hes clueless but pumping ph's into his body and not willing to take any advice. he ignores everyone trying to help him in search of the magic pill...

this is the type of person who leads to trouble for us all.... If only they couldnt try to sue the companies and such and cause such a hassle i would just as soon let nature take its course than keep talking to brick walls.
 
ok ok, how would one go about a serm? where are these obtained? dosage?

thanks again for all the help, and for the people that have nothing to say other than

not trying to completely ball you out (ok, maybe I am), but people like you are the reason our precious supplements are being ripped from us. People (usually kids) take this stuff without knowing what the hell they're doing, and end up getting hurt somehow. This usually leads to another round of witch hunting against the fitness supplement industry.

Thanks for explaining nothing and only bashing someone trying to understand it all.
Send me a private message and I would love to discuss some of these things. Your right, I am uninformed and shouldnt be doing this, but with some help, i would do it aswell. so someone teach me the ways and dont just tell me to take a leap.
 
robhccc said:
ok ok, how would one go about a serm? where are these obtained? dosage?

thanks again for all the help, and for the people that have nothing to say other than

not trying to completely ball you out (ok, maybe I am), but people like you are the reason our precious supplements are being ripped from us. People (usually kids) take this stuff without knowing what the hell they're doing, and end up getting hurt somehow. This usually leads to another round of witch hunting against the fitness supplement industry.

Thanks for explaining nothing and only bashing someone trying to understand it all.
Send me a private message and I would love to discuss some of these things. Your right, I am uninformed and shouldnt be doing this, but with some help, i would do it aswell. so someone teach me the ways and dont just tell me to take a leap.
Click to expand...

I am sure people are annoyed that you have not done YOUR research. There is TONS of info on AM about cycles, Havoc, PCT, SERMS, but you seem quite clueless. I was able to run a cycle of Epi and a pulse without any reservations about what I was doing because I read, and read, and read. I never posted a question because I saw soooo many other cycle setups and recommendations so I was confident in my setup. I have seen 3 threads in 1 day on the same topic even though there are many more threads that cover the topic. That is why answering every question can be frustrating. I am a teacher, I answer a question and then 2 minutes later someone asks the same thing, it's a waste of time.

Please do some reading, there is no rush, your supps will still be there.
 
If you want to run Havoc without a serm, you might want to consider "pulsing" it.

Use the search function for "pulsing orals."

Some feel that pulsing, if done correctly, is a way to get by without a serm.
 
Another big no no on AM is asking for a source. As I said before just google research chemicals. You need to spend some serious time using the search function on this form and educating yourself before you pop anything else. As far as the 1-Andro goes, you taking that without a clue what it is and what it does is just asking for disaster. Again that is a steroid my friend. Welcome to the dark side.....
 
Do yourself a favor and dont take anything for awhile until you know what the hell you're doing. You are obviously lost. Just DIET right and stop looking for a "magic pill" until you learn how to safely use these "magical little compounds" we all call a PH. When you ask a question and the majority of your responses are the same it would be safe to say that's probably your best bet. Wikipedia/Google the following... SERM, Luteinizing Hormone, HPTA, Gynecomastia, Ect... oh yeah, when asking someone for advise you are admitting you are not a subject matter expert. Don't argue if you don't get the answer you are hoping for. Havoc is SERM mandatory. A test booster will bring test levels to a natural level on Post Cycle, however, you need a SERM to restore LH levels. Learn Son!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top