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Atd Animal study

John Smeton

John Smeton

Legend
while I do not think animal studies relate to human studies in all cases I think this one very well might apply.

Makes me put a minus in front of atd when i think of atd

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Nice post by the way smeton.

Concurs with my own observations. My balls are indeed smaller when i take ATD, and i also get lighter, as in losing water weight. The only thing ATD is good for in my mind, is to get a cut dry look, but there are better AI's that would do that job.
I think if they researched 6-bromo they might also find negative conclusions as well.

Also like i tell people, if your gonna use ATD dont use more than 25mg, i found that 12.5 was the best spot. Probally at this small dose, it wasnt enough to cause shutdown.

The other AI ive tried was Topical Formestane, which works much better, and its not suprise since its actually i researched Selective AI, that was used to treat breast cancer, before superior AI's were invented.
 
I NEVER suggest ATD on cycle, only off cycle, not wise to use it during cycle, only bromo and formestane.
 
The article shows 1,4,6-androstariene-3, 17-dione as ATD. I thought 1,4,6-etioallocholan-dione was ATD. Can someone clarify?
 
My nuts get huge on atd. I love the stuff. I run a lower than recommended dose and at 1 pill a night libido goes up for me. In that study does the dose seem pretty high?
 
...Maybe I'm reading those charts wrong, but I believe they were giving the rats 30mg and 60mg per kg of bodyweight. At 77kg, that's like me taking 2.3-4.6 grams of ATD a day.
 
Chops89 said:
...Maybe I'm reading those charts wrong, but I believe they were giving the rats 30mg and 60mg per kg of bodyweight. At 77kg, that's like me taking 2.3-4.6 grams of ATD a day.
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Regardless bro its on cycle which means NOTHING to me since its an anti-androgen, great testosterone booster, and yeah 2 grams of ATD would crush one's lipids LOL.
 
animal studies-phoohey.
i have been running a log on clomidex which contains atd, i'll be it in small quantities. my test results were just posted.
is it any surprise that atd and 6-bromo will probably be axed by fda. look for more of these 'studies' to appear. the fda is a sneaky bunch.
 
thebigt said:
animal studies-phoohey.
i have been running a log on clomidex which contains atd, i'll be it in small quantities. my test results were just posted.
is it any surprise that atd and 6-bromo will probably be axed by fda. look for more of these 'studies' to appear. the fda is a sneaky bunch.
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EXACTLY, bro not only have I seen plenty of bloodwork on ATD, but pfeizer wanted tp pick it up after the official ban, hmm......
 
andrew732 said:
EXACTLY, bro not only have I seen plenty of bloodwork on ATD, but pfeizer wanted tp pick it up after the official ban, hmm......
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a study is only as good as 1.who is funding it 2. what the motivation is.
too many people put too much stock in onesided studies-for every study that says atd is bad i am sure you can find one on how good it is. you can manipulate doses to get desired effects or many other variables to effect what outcome will be.
 
thebigt said:
a study is only as good as 1.who is funding it 2. what the motivation is.
too many people put too much stock in onesided studies-for every study that says atd is bad i am sure you can find one on how good it is. you can manipulate doses to get desired effects or many other variables to effect what outcome will be.
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Agreed. You can find both positive and negative studies on almost anything out today. You have to look at where the information is coming from and why.
 
The main thing is, you should determine if a drug works for you on your own observations. Everyone has a different biochemistry. Personally, I dont care to much for it, and there are better AI's to use.

This goes for most AI's, crushing your estrogen too much to increase testosterone is not a good thing. You need balance.

See a 50 year old who takes ATD will have different results since their test to estogen ratio is out of proportion due to the aging process.

For people who have normal test to estrogen ratios, AI's are really good standalone stacks. Low doses of AI's are the best for these people, if they were do a solo.

I read a study a while back comparing different dosages of letrozole on increasing testosterone. I dont remember the numbers, but the study showed that .25mg for instance was just as effective as a 1mg.

I conclude the best used for ATD would be for on cycle estrogen check, "older people,30+", and to get a dry look, however not for PCT use. There are better AI's than ATD for all the above purposes.

My final conclusions, take them as you will. Its my opinion, and everyone is titled to their own, no one here can claim to know anything 100% and yes not all research studies are conclusive, but they can give good insight to help understand your own observations from the compound.
 
Psychabinol said:
The main thing is, you should determine if a drug works for you on your own observations. Everyone has a different biochemistry. Personally, I dont care to much for it, and there are better AI's to use.

This goes for most AI's, crushing your estrogen too much to increase testosterone is not a good thing. You need balance.

See a 50 year old who takes ATD will have different results since their test to estogen ratio is out of proportion due to the aging process.

For people who have normal test to estrogen ratios, AI's are really good standalone stacks. Low doses of AI's are the best for these people, if they were do a solo.

I read a study a while back comparing different dosages of letrozole on increasing testosterone. I dont remember the numbers, but the study showed that .25mg for instance was just as effective as a 1mg.

I conclude the best used for ATD would be for on cycle estrogen check, "older people,30+", and to get a dry look, however not for PCT use. There are better AI's than ATD for all the above purposes.

My final conclusions, take them as you will. Its my opinion, and everyone is titled to their own, no one here can claim to know anything 100% and yes not all research studies are conclusive, but they can give good insight to help understand your own observations from the compound.
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Well I agree that everyone has a different bio/phsyiology, but to use on cycle, NOT AGREEING at all, why would you use an anti-androgen while on cycle, I would rather use a SERM..... palmface
 
andrew732 said:
Well I agree that everyone has a different bio/phsyiology, but to use on cycle, NOT AGREEING at all, why would you use an anti-androgen while on cycle, I would rather use a SERM..... palmface
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Why use an anti-androgen at any time? I was saying if it made sense to use it id be on cycle, and i meant a cycle that could aromotize, testosterone for instance.

How much would ATD limit gains on a test cycle?

Okay, you said SERM, how much would that limit gains? a SERM will limit gains as well. Estrogen is anabolic.

If you say, ATD is an anti-androgen, and i know it is, what the hell would you want to use an anti-androgen for anything?

You conclude my point, ATD is almost useless, like the article said.
 
Psychabinol said:
Why use an anti-androgen at any time? I was saying if it made sense to use it id be on cycle, and i meant a cycle that could aromotize, testosterone for instance.

How much would ATD limit gains on a test cycle?

Okay, you said SERM, how much would that limit gains? a SERM will limit gains as well. Estrogen is anabolic.

If you say, ATD is an anti-androgen, and i know it is, what the hell would you want to use an anti-androgen for anything?

You conclude my point, ATD is almost useless, like the article said.
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Useless I think not, good for building muscle no. CLOMID would be the ONLY serm to be agonist based with estrogen, so umm yeah, bro aint trying to be an arse but you are off base. I am trying my best here to be polite, for those who COULD GIVE A SQUAT about being big, find it very useful. What hormone is the king hormone? Let me answer that, TESTOSTERONE, um yeah... I will escort myself out this thread before I get nasty.
 
OK, haters -- I, personally, love ATD. At least for gyno issues.
Every damn time I use SD, I get the dreaded delayed gyno, a month or two after PCT. And every damn time, Gaspari Novedex removes it.
This last time, I got my worst gyno ever. I tried my normal ATD protocol (75mg/day tapered down to 12.5) and it helped, but definitely didn't eliminate the gyno. So, before resorting to letro (an AI only slightly stronger than ATD), I decided to throw some serious dosing at the prob.
I tried 150mg (6 caps/day), emptying a full bottle in 10 days. I would never recommend this to anyone, as my lipids are surely screwed, and my libido disappeared. But so did the gyno. Yay. Now I'm down-tapering a 2nd bottle (4/3/2/1/.5), to avoid rebound. My libido (as usual) returned when I got down to 2 caps (50mg)/day. And my nutz definitely don't shrink on ATD -- they get huge. Even at 150mg.
Another thing -- I love the way ATD dries me out (with minimal joint probs). And I always seem to get stronger -- I almost feel "on." (Probably due to ATD boosting the testosterone level in this old bod.)
As suggested above, this could just be a government plot to "schedule" ATD because it's so effective. More $$$ for Big Pharm...
 
And, as also suggested above, the doses they gave these swedish mice were excessive -- the equivalent of about 90-180 Novedex caps/day for me. Considering that ATD converts to a steroid (as does formestane), these crazy doses are probably causing steroid-induced HPTA down-regulation, as opposed to the up-regulation you get from normal/lower doses (exactly like formestane). Notice that, as the ATD dose is raised from 30 to 60mg, the testes weight continues to drop, but the body weight actually starts to rise -- completely consistent with steroid use.
This study is meaningless to us, unless they repeat it at muchmuchmuch lower ATD doses, and then measure testes weight. Better yet, repeat the test on humans, with human doses.
Just my 2-cents.
 
ImJ2x said:
And, as also suggested above, the doses they gave these swedish mice were excessive -- the equivalent of about 90-180 Novedex caps/day for me. Considering that ATD converts to a steroid (as does formestane), these crazy doses are probably causing steroid-induced HPTA down-regulation, as opposed to the up-regulation you get from normal/lower doses (exactly like formestane). Notice that, as the ATD dose is raised from 30 to 60mg, the testes weight continues to drop, but the body weight actually starts to rise -- completely consistent with steroid use.
This study is meaningless to us, unless they repeat it at muchmuchmuch lower ATD doses, and then measure testes weight. Better yet, repeat the test on humans, with human doses.
Just my 2-cents.
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go to the head of the class. you have done well grasshopper.
 
thebigt said:
go to the head of the class. you have done well grasshopper.
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Hah. Thanks, t.
I just can't sit around and let people dis my ATD (especially Swedes, lol).
And God forbid Big Brother decides to "schedule" ATD -- it's the only non-prescription gyno treatment that really works. (Formestane is decent, but ATD is definitely better, for gyno.)
 
ImJ2x said:
Hah. Thanks, t.
I just can't sit around and let people dis my ATD (especially Swedes, lol).
And God forbid Big Brother decides to "schedule" ATD -- it's the only non-prescription gyno treatment that really works. (Formestane is decent, but ATD is definitely better, for gyno.)
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formestane is hardest ingredient i have ever messed with to get into solution, period. but i have added 2gms bulk atd to pre-mixed formestane with outstanding results- kind of off topic but thought i would throw it out there.
 
qwerty33 said:
so then novadex xt gaspari ATD should not be used in pct at all? it inhibits hpta restore?
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At recommended doses, its fine for PCT. Just be certain to taper down gradually, or you might get estro rebound = gyno.
 
qwerty33 said:
thanks much but it does boost Test in humans correct?
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yes I believe so. too high does of atd can cause dry joints by eliminating too much estrogen. If I ever do it I would do very low dose like 12.5 mgs maybe 25 at the highest and use it with a free testosterone booster like Testopro.

I say if one does do atd use 25 mgs or less and it might be pretty powerful as far as raising testosterone.
 
smeton_yea said:
yes I believe so. too high does of atd can cause dry joints by eliminating too much estrogen. If I ever do it I would do very low dose like 12.5 mgs maybe 25 at the highest and use it with a free testosterone booster like Testopro.

I say if one does do atd use 25 mgs or less and it might be pretty powerful as far as raising testosterone.
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i agree, i think less is best with atd. very effective at low doses.
 
i agree when i used the original halodrol-50 by gaspari i pct'd with novadex xt and i think i ran it too high bc my sex drive became lessened when on 3 pills. i think i ran 3/3/2/1.

as long as it actually got my test back up im all good. now i use serms + sustain alpha :)
 
I tend to go much higher with Novedex (up to 6caps=150mg), but that's because I seem to always be fighting Superdrol delayed gyno. My libido does drop when I go above 50mg, so that's probably the max dose I'd recommend for straight PCT testosterone recovery. ATD is quite effective for both PCT and gyno removal. Let's hope it doesn't get scheduled...
 
ImJ2x said:
I tend to go much higher with Novedex (up to 6caps=150mg), but that's because I seem to always be fighting Superdrol delayed gyno. My libido does drop when I go above 50mg, so that's probably the max dose I'd recommend for straight PCT testosterone recovery. ATD is quite effective for both PCT and gyno removal. Let's hope it doesn't get scheduled...
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better stock up. ive been stockpiling form and trione, gonna get some bulk atd powder too. my money says they are on there way out. company's are already replacing 6-bromo.
 
yea i would hate to stock up on another supp. Primordial Performance is coming out with LV Formestane i think on feb 15th. Formestane is slightly suppressive correct? How does it differ from atd in a broad sense
 
qwerty33 said:
yea i would hate to stock up on another supp. Primordial Performance is coming out with LV Formestane i think on feb 15th. Formestane is slightly suppressive correct? How does it differ from atd in a broad sense
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wtf-i had a conversation with john and eric and they said they weren't going to do formestane, you sure about this?
 
says flavor pending for LV form feb 15th release. When did you talk to them? They said epi is out tho
 
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