You cannot gain 20 pounds of muscle on a safe oral cycle

I believe the complaint lodged above is that all the companies recently are promoting their products with "gain XX lbs of muscle" etc.

Now if Tren LV's promo ads said "gain 20lbs of body weight in 6 weeks" i doubt the OP would have much of an objection.

He's simply stating that it's unrealistic and/or impossible to gain that much LBM in that amount of time.

* FWIW I purchased a bottle of the Tren LV to stack with Mdrol for a 4 week cycle. Do I expect 20lbs, no. I do however expect to stay lean (180lbs 10%bf) and keep about 10lbs after PCT.
 
Pretty sad answer by Primordial as UnrealMachine never intended a "Mud fight". He just set things straight, and rightfully so. If Primordial wants to set themselves apart from the hype-supp-crowd, a good first step would be to ditch the "20 lbs of muscle in 6 weeks" trash. Seems unlikely, though.
 
Whats sad is seeing people quibble about how much "muscle" you can or cannot gain.... Somebody says "you cant gain this much muscle in this amount of time" or its all "water weight" or its "all glycogen". Relative to what? What about the fact that total wet muscle weight is 70% water weight? What about the fact that more glycogen is stored in the muscle during steroid use? Does that muscle gain not count?

Point is, its a waste of time argument.

Google "TREN Xtreme" or "Dienedrone" and you will see logs with guys gaining 15-20lbs. You could even search for "1-T TREN" ... which actually did what we claimed and put on 10-15lbs in 4-6 weeks in alot of people. Here is one military dude who just posted up the other day his gains from 1-T TREN. (gained 14lbs in 4 weeks I believe)

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

FYI, we do set ourselves apart from the hype-supp-crowd, because our products actually do fulfill the claims we make.

-Eric
 
Primordial Perf said:
Whats sad is seeing people quibble about how much "muscle" you can or cannot gain.... Somebody says "you cant gain this much muscle in this amount of time" or its all "water weight" or its "all glycogen". Relative to what? What about the fact that total wet muscle weight is 70% water weight? What about the fact that more glycogen is stored in the muscle during steroid use? Does that muscle gain not count?
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No, because it's not muscle gain, it's extra glycogen being stored there. And extra water above and beyond that 70% you mention. I could drink a bunch of saltwater and gain a few pounds in a day, it's not muscle gain, even if some of the water is in the muscles.
 
hear that guys??? ITS NOT HYPE!! HE SAID HIS COMPANY ISN'T LIKE THAT




...i think it'd be alot better if you'd just admit the mistake of the ad saying 20lbs of muscle.. instead of just 20 lbs!! i've gotten over 20 lbs in 6 weeks before.. but i've never called it all muscle.

i don't care if the muscle is filled with glycogen.. or water.. or w/e your saying above... you ad says build 20 lbs of muscle.. and thats misleading. they will gain maybe 10 lbs of muscle TOPS.. then lose the rest after, or keep the weight, and just be thicker with water and fat.
 
I am tired with the BS PP is preaching. Okay 20 LBS in a month...wow I am such a stupid noob so I will believe the claim is true. Get a grip, you guys are no better then muscle tech or usp labs. Please dont post anymore, you are digging a grave for your self. Lucky for me I went with another company that strictly sell PH and they do not make bs claims or advertising. Not to mention, their product cost 3x less then yours.
 
dpfisher said:
No, because it's not muscle gain, it's extra glycogen being stored there. And extra water above and beyond that 70% you mention. I could drink a bunch of saltwater and gain a few pounds in a day, it's not muscle gain, even if some of the water is in the muscles.
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That would give you extracellular water retention, not the same as the primary intracellular water retention most steroids cause.

Try again.

-Eric
 
Ju1cedUp said:
...i think it'd be alot better if you'd just admit the mistake of the ad saying 20lbs of muscle.. instead of just 20 lbs!! i've gotten over 20 lbs in 6 weeks before.. but i've never called it all muscle.
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Im sorry to hear your muscle gains are not quality during your cycles. I could certainly help you with that if you like.
 
Big3upgrade said:
I am tired with the BS PP is preaching. Okay 20 LBS in a month...wow I am such a stupid noob so I will believe the claim is true. Get a grip, you guys are no better then muscle tech or usp labs. Please dont post anymore, you are digging a grave for your self. Lucky for me I went with another company that strictly sell PH and they do not make bs claims or advertising. Not to mention, their product cost 3x less then yours.
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Ok, I don't see any muscle tech reps in here addressing complaints about their products or advertising claims... gimme some credit...
 
Primordial Perf said:
Im sorry to hear your muscle gains are not quality during your cycles. I could certainly help you with that if you like.
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no i'm happy with what i get and do my best to run them with clean diets to get quality muscle, i just don't think its possible to get 20 lbs of lean muscle in 6 weeks haha. Some of that weight must be fat, water, glycogen stores w/e
 
Ju1cedUp said:
no i'm happy with what i get and do my best to run them with clean diets to get quality muscle, i just don't think its possible to get 20 lbs of lean muscle in 6 weeks haha. Some of that weight must be fat, water, glycogen stores w/e
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It is possible, but not something that could really be "proven" per se'
 
Hey if I didn't eat for 3 months then took this stuff with a bunch of food... I bet I could gain 30 pounds of muscle! You should totally change your ad to reflect this possibility. It's not misleading at all.

Primordial Perf said:
Ok, thats just silly... havnt you ever heard of darwinism?
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Evolution can be demonstrated in a laboratory, but the theory as a whole cannot be "proven" unless time travel is invented. Since we aren't talking in historical terms, there's no reason you couldn't prove this claim with a bottle of LV, a scale and a bodyfat caliper.
 
I think people inflating the actual results of their cycles online is common. I see people reporting to gain 15-20 pounds all the time on their cycles on forums, yet I haven't seen it in person. Not from an oral-only cycle anyway. If you were running high doses of multiple compounds (Testosterone, Trenbolone, GH, etc) and were willing to deal with the side effects, then I'm sure that it is possible to make some pretty insane gains. I'm not one who subscribes to the speculation that there is a set number of pounds you can gain in X number of time, there are far too many variables involved to make such an assertion. But let's be real here, nobody is going to walk away with 20 pounds of MUSCLE on a 6 week cycle of that product. Sure, nobody can PROVE that it isn't possible, but nobody can prove leprechauns don't exist either. Your company has a good reputation, and while I've never used your products, I'd bet they're great products based on the feedback I've read and that people would probably buy your stuff even without sensationalistic marketing tactics.

Yeah, other companies do it, too. So if it seems like you're being singled out and picked on, I'd argue this is a different situation as you came here and made such a claim at a forum. You essentially jumped right into the shark tank.
 
PP, how come when this same thing was posted on outlaw muscle you apologized for marketing in this way, but on this site you try and defend it? Do you feel that the caliber of consumer is lower on this site so you can b.s. your way out of this situation?
 
you would be lucky to net 4-5lbs of muscle in 6 weeks... 20lbs is absolutely physiologically impossible

most of the weight gained on these designers is water and glycogen.... both of which are fat free mass and will lower your BF%... but it's not the same as increasing the size and density of the muscle fibers

So just because you gained 15lbs and your BF% calculator stayed the same does NOT mean you gained 15lbs of muscle
 
Libertarian said:
I think people inflating the actual results of their cycles online is common. I see people reporting to gain 15-20 pounds all the time on their cycles on forums, yet I haven't seen it in person.
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If you are cutting before going on a bulk cycle then it's possible just due to your normal glycogen stores returning. I gained 15lbs on 1,4ad alone. Of course at least 8 of that was just my normal glycogen stores returning, and a couple was the additional retention from the steroids. How much muscle did I gain? 4-5lbs maybe.
 
Libertarian said:
I think people inflating the actual results of their cycles online is common. I see people reporting to gain 15-20 pounds all the time on their cycles on forums, yet I haven't seen it in person. Not from an oral-only cycle anyway. If you were running high doses of multiple compounds (Testosterone, Trenbolone, GH, etc) and were willing to deal with the side effects, then I'm sure that it is possible to make some pretty insane gains. I'm not one who subscribes to the speculation that there is a set number of pounds you can gain in X number of time, there are far too many variables involved to make such an assertion. But let's be real here, nobody is going to walk away with 20 pounds of MUSCLE on a 6 week cycle of that product. Sure, nobody can PROVE that it isn't possible, but nobody can prove leprechauns don't exist either. Your company has a good reputation, and while I've never used your products, I'd bet they're great products based on the feedback I've read and that people would probably buy your stuff even without sensationalistic marketing tactics.

Yeah, other companies do it, too. So if it seems like you're being singled out and picked on, I'd argue this is a different situation as you came here and made such a claim at a forum. You essentially jumped right into the shark tank.
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Ive seen 35lb gains with clients Ive worked with in the past, granted it wasnt with new age "pro-steroids" but big muscle gains in short periods of time are certainly possible.

Will everybody gain 20lbs in 6 weeks on TREN LV? Nope, and we have never claimed this. Its called a headline. Created to make people click the thread.

Anybody could post within the TREN thread with cycle history, cycle plan, diet and training and ask what kind of gains they could really expect. I would give them my honest educated guess.

I have no doubt that certain well prepared and experienced lifters will walk away with 20lbs+ from a cycle of TREN... which will happen sometime in the next few months.

-Eric
 
mooch2321 said:
PP, how come when this same thing was posted on outlaw muscle you apologized for marketing in this way, but on this site you try and defend it? Do you feel that the caliber of consumer is lower on this site so you can b.s. your way out of this situation?
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Umm... not exactly... you might want to re-read it -

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-Eric
 
Movin_weight said:
you would be lucky to net 4-5lbs of muscle in 6 weeks... 20lbs is absolutely physiologically impossible

most of the weight gained on these designers is water and glycogen.... both of which are fat free mass and will lower your BF%... but it's not the same as increasing the size and density of the muscle fibers

So just because you gained 15lbs and your BF% calculator stayed the same does NOT mean you gained 15lbs of muscle
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thats a good point..i did cycle of tren last year for 6 weeks went from 225 to 245 by the time i finished my PCT i was back to around 232 but BF was way down and definately more muscle mass..my true muscle was around 7 lbs..i was huge at 245 and had abbs etc but results while on were similar to a good run of creatine..so yes i put on 20 lbs but not solid muscle..not to say a true 20lbs can not be obtained on 6 weeks just seems a little extreme
 
mooch2321 said:
PP, how come when this same thing was posted on outlaw muscle you apologized for marketing in this way, but on this site you try and defend it? Do you feel that the caliber of consumer is lower on this site so you can b.s. your way out of this situation?
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I was just thinking about that, much different tone from him here than on OLM.
 
tim1985 said:
I was just thinking about that, much different tone from him here than on OLM.
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Naturally. OLM is full of guys who have been using 2g/wk of juice who have been cycling this way for years.. they arent going to gain 20lbs off a solo cycle of TREN LV.
 
it'd be alot easier if you'd admit the misleading ad...
maybe like your saying there is a kid that will gain 20lbs of muscle on ur roid after 6 weeks, but for most of us, if not all of us, its just not going to happen

i think we'd all just thank you and move on if you'd let this go and acknowledge we arent idiots
 
Ju1cedUp said:
it'd be alot easier if you'd admit the misleading ad...
maybe like your saying there is a kid that will gain 20lbs of muscle on ur roid after 6 weeks, but for most of us, if not all of us, its just not going to happen

i think we'd all just thank you and move on if you'd let this go and acknowledge we arent idiots
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So if it just said "Gain 20lbs in 6 weeks..." then you guys would like me again?
 
Primordial Perf said:
Ok, so when the Muscle Feeder releases in late march and I put up a thread that says "Gain 30lbs in 8 weeks"... you promise you guys wont be upset?
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perhaps if in quotes like all other adds in magazines

(Results not typical)
 
Primordial Perf said:
Ok, so when the Muscle Feeder releases in late march and I put up a thread that says "Gain 30lbs in 8 weeks"... you promise you guys wont be upset?
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i've seen people many people gain 20 lbs in a cycle... i haven't seen the 30, so i can't say i'd be very happy

keep your ads reasonable, something you can back up. 30+lbs may be as ridiculous as 20lbs of muscle, but i haven't seen many 8 week cycles ran.
 
Primordial Perf said:
Ok, I will do this in the future... but I still really believe its possible to gain 20lbs of muscle with TREN LV.
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if the company didn't believe in it that'd be rather troubling haha. I just thought it would be better for you to advertise reasonably because the people on AM won't take your products seriously without it, not trying to take you out or call your name into question. I personally didn't check out the product because i didn't believe in the 20lbs of muscle, that was even before this thread had started. Just a thought man, you can obviously do whatever you'd like

I'm done here though, c ya guys
 
Ju1cedUp said:
i've seen people many people gain 20 lbs in a cycle... i haven't seen the 30, so i can't say i'd be very happy

keep your ads reasonable, something you can back up. 30+lbs may be as ridiculous as 20lbs of muscle, but i haven't seen many 8 week cycles ran.
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Yeah, 30lbs would be unlikely unless you where running juice along with the Muscle Feeder.

Im very excited about this one though. It will be totally non-steroidial and very safe... Its going to be a nutrient partitioning agent/insulin modulator... like nothin on the market.
 
Product isn't available anymore, correct? So, whatever was has been sold now so there isn't anything that arguing is going to solve...
In the future, I would like to see PP stray away from insane claims regardless if this was an outrageous claim or if it is truth.

But hey, these guys are making money hand over fist so who am I to tell then how to profit, just doesn't look morally acceptable, imo.
 
Ju1cedUp said:
I just thought it would be better for you to advertise reasonably because the people on AM won't take your products seriously
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If you are experienced, you do not read the ads and buy the product, because of the substance.
If you are a noob, you read the ads, beliefe them and buy the product.

So why should a company do such "reasonably advertising" thing?
 
hardknock said:
Product isn't available anymore, correct? So, whatever was has been sold now so there isn't anything that arguing is going to solve...
In the future, I would like to see PP stray away from insane claims regardless if this was an outrageous claim or if it is truth.

But hey, these guys are making money hand over fist so who am I to tell then how to profit, just doesn't look morally acceptable, imo.
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Yeah TREN LV is long gone. It was the fastest selling product we ever sold.

Just trying to show these people I don't just pull claims out of thin air nor do we try to "doop stupid noobs"... but I digress.

Anyway, Im back to the research den. Have fun guys.

-Eric
 
Gonzogo said:
If you are experienced, you do not read the ads and buy the product, because of the substance.
If you are a noob, you read the ads, beliefe them and buy the product.

So why should a company do such "reasonably advertising" thing?
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the noobs will look at this and as fast as they credited his advertisement, will discredit it and spread it along to all the other noobs. Noobs also know no difference between 20 lbs and 20 lbs of muscle


win-win.
 
Wow I see alot of people in here throwing stones that live in glass house's, it seems that when the train comes in everybody wants to hop on for a ride but would be the same duds swinging to be a tester for some new PP product. 90% of the people on here have probally told some type of lie or stretched the tuth just to day alone not even counting this past week.

This is buisness so dont knock the hustle, I hate when people try and get all rightous and then everybody becomes a saint and point the finger. People read in to what they want to, now I have been buying PP products for some time now and have been very pleased, its a insult to try and put them on the level of Musletech.

Now if the add said everyone will gain 20 lbm in one month then that would be one thing but it did not say that you could, so who could say what 1 out of a 1,000 cant do you just never know.

Eric I belive in your company and your doing good buisness, Im running 1t liqua and halo right now and its going good, at least I know that your prodcts have what they say they have in them and arenot tainted with some b.s.

Some of yall need to pick up some sustain and put your thongs back on cause yall estrogen is a little to high right now.
 
Ju1cedUp said:
the noobs will look at this and as fast as they credited his advertisement, will discredit it and spread it along to all the other noobs. Noobs also know no difference between 20 lbs and 20 lbs of muscle


win-win.
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No, no. As far as you realise, that the claims are bs, you level up. You become a not-noob. Up till now, you will stop talking to other noobs because they are noobs and it is much cooler make fun of them. Hey look over there, he beliefs the ads hahaha
 
Gonzogo said:
No, no. As far as you realise, that the claims are bs, you level up. You become a not-noob. Up till now, you will stop talking to other noobs because they are noobs and it is much cooler make fun of them. Hey look over there, he beliefs the ads hahaha
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haha alright man, meaningless discussion. just think anytime there is a thread being mad at a company's ads, they might want to address it seriously.
 
NattyT said:
Wow I see alot of people in here throwing stones that live in glass house's, it seems that when the train comes in everybody wants to hop on for a ride but would be the same duds swinging to be a tester for some new PP product. 90% of the people on here have probally told some type of lie or stretched the tuth just to day alone not even counting this past week.

This is buisness so dont knock the hustle, I hate when people try and get all rightous and then everybody becomes a saint and point the finger. People read in to what they want to, now I have been buying PP products for some time now and have been very pleased, its a insult to try and put them on the level of Musletech.

Now if the add said everyone will gain 20 lbm in one month then that would be one thing but it did not say that you could, so who could say what 1 out of a 1,000 cant do you just never know.

Eric I belive in your company and your doing good buisness, Im running 1t liqua and halo right now and its going good, at least I know that your prodcts have what they say they have in them and arenot tainted with some b.s.

Some of yall need to pick up some sustain and put your thongs back on cause yall estrogen is a little to high right now.
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well said man. i do believe in him trying to sell the product to the best of his ability, and i don't personally have experience with his company to be able to tell him how credible he is. But you must say it is walking the line of muscle-tech type ads when the main line of the ad says something that may or may not be even possible. but i digress...

i still have nothing against eric or PP, just had an opinion, he may consider it if he so wishes.
 
NattyT said:
Wow I see alot of people in here throwing stones that live in glass house's, it seems that when the train comes in everybody wants to hop on for a ride but would be the same duds swinging to be a tester for some new PP product. 90% of the people on here have probally told some type of lie or stretched the tuth just to day alone not even counting this past week.

This is buisness so dont knock the hustle, I hate when people try and get all rightous and then everybody becomes a saint and point the finger. People read in to what they want to, now I have been buying PP products for some time now and have been very pleased, its a insult to try and put them on the level of Musletech.

Now if the add said everyone will gain 20 lbm in one month then that would be one thing but it did not say that you could, so who could say what 1 out of a 1,000 cant do you just never know.

Eric I belive in your company and your doing good buisness, Im running 1t liqua and halo right now and its going good, at least I know that your prodcts have what they say they have in them and arenot tainted with some b.s.

Some of yall need to pick up some sustain and put your thongs back on cause yall estrogen is a little to high right now.
Click to expand...

:wavey:
 
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