thebigt
Legend
you are too close to see. i suppose many dermatologist's have an innate fear of shaking hands.:bigok:
GABA get you shredded!
- Thread starter nevergoodenough
- Start date
you are too close to see. i suppose many dermatologist's have an innate fear of shaking hands.:bigok:
spartan300
Member
receptor upregulation is very real....leads to imbalance
thebigt
Legend
i am an advocate of moderation. the use of gaba or l-dopa products should not be used continuously. but short cycles or occasional use should be safe enough, imo. hell, i think everything should be cycled.
spartan300
Member
if your going to use it, I agree
im just here to educate...this stuff is interesting and people should know how supplements work
FYI...gaba has an inhibitory effect....think about what its doing and why you feel so tired and relaxed...its inhibiting your cerebral cortex which is in charge of basically all motor (unconscious and conscious thru axon collaterals/connections) movement
Still though, i dont really like the idea of tinkering with basal ganglia and manipulating receptors of this part of your brain
thebigt
Legend
as far back in history as you care to go mankind has been looking for ways to influence inhibitory effects. if used in moderation gaba's inhibitory effects just counter the negative effects of the stressful world we live in. imo a few gms of gaba would be much more safer AND beneficial than a few shots of bourbon after dinner, lol.
wrasslin116
Well-known member
Thank you for posting this, people make GABA seem very under-rated.
GABA/1-Carboxy/Glutamine is the best mix I've ever had before bed, great feeling, amazing sleep, wake up refreshed everyday and very good for fatloss!
GABA/1-Carboxy/Glutamine is the best mix I've ever had before bed, great feeling, amazing sleep, wake up refreshed everyday and very good for fatloss!
spearfisher
New member
Nothing knocks me out like 5g of GABA!
Ive tried half the sleep aids on NP, and seriously 5g of GABA and BAM! Im asleep!
**** I guess it does! Considering how it works, I wouldn't want to take it before I hit the gym for sure. Night time sleep aid? Oh yea
Antigravity
Member
**** I guess it does! Considering how it works, I wouldn't want to take it before I hit the gym for sure. Night time sleep aid? Oh yea
ACtually there are dozens of studies that demonstrate if GABA is taken pre-Workout it helps to increase GH level spike between 200-500% over baseline PWO. Considering the % - the actual increase in GH isnt enough to produce lbm. gains- but would promote recovery and perhaps a little fat loss.
There have been recent large scale pharmaceutical re-investigations into GABA for its inhibitory effect- as a natural form of destressing and a preventive measure against certain types of depression and sleep-disturbance related disorders.
It is silly to say you wont mess with GABA, however if you mess with most of the stims on the market have psychoactive effects aswell- (eg: ephedra).
Best,
spartan300
Member
just found this in my notes
gaba effects the nucleus accumbens as well
-which is involved in the limbic system which deals with emotional response...thats why you get a calm relaxed feeling/emotion
gaba effects the nucleus accumbens as well
-which is involved in the limbic system which deals with emotional response...thats why you get a calm relaxed feeling/emotion
Antigravity
Member
There is a current study done on GABA's purported ameliorating effect on women with severe PMS -mood fluctuation/general symptoms.
SonicSWOLE
Member
GABA is one of my favorites. I use it purposely as well as recreationally.
However, the best way to use it isn't pre-wo IMO. It does make it a little hard to START a decent workout. What I have found through experience is to take 3-5g (ideally work upt 5) Intra, about 1/2 hour before end of workout. Do not take any other intra supps(silly IMO anyway)....and take the GABA sublingually or with chewing gum(thanks bigT). Then enjoy a good Post wrokout shake or meal.
I recommend only using on resistance training days(you don't want to dose GABA b4 cardio!), and not using at all on 'off' days.
Remember..all supps that purportedly increase GH need to be cycled and not used daily for more than 3 weeks. This is imperative. Using as I have directed above, there is no need for cycling...you could of course use 1-carboxy, l-dopa supp or GHenerate at bed time if you like (don't forget to cycle).
However, the best way to use it isn't pre-wo IMO. It does make it a little hard to START a decent workout. What I have found through experience is to take 3-5g (ideally work upt 5) Intra, about 1/2 hour before end of workout. Do not take any other intra supps(silly IMO anyway)....and take the GABA sublingually or with chewing gum(thanks bigT). Then enjoy a good Post wrokout shake or meal.
I recommend only using on resistance training days(you don't want to dose GABA b4 cardio!), and not using at all on 'off' days.
Remember..all supps that purportedly increase GH need to be cycled and not used daily for more than 3 weeks. This is imperative. Using as I have directed above, there is no need for cycling...you could of course use 1-carboxy, l-dopa supp or GHenerate at bed time if you like (don't forget to cycle).
soontobbeast
Well-known member
can i take 1-carboxy with my pre workout aminos ( beta alanine, alcar, aakg ) ? or should i take the 1 carboxy during?
ive heard of people taking powerfull before workouts so shouldnt it be the same?
ive heard of people taking powerfull before workouts so shouldnt it be the same?
SonicSWOLE
Member
I wouldn't take the aminos you listed together. BA and Alcar should be taken seperate and independent of everything else. You could take the 1-carboxy intra, just make sure you are taking a good b-complex(among other things).
Antigravity
Member
explain? GH is a long term acting compound- so you wouldnt see any effects if you were to do a 3 week cycle, especially if you are trying to stimulate GH usage via a secretogogue. If you were to mimic an actual GH protocol and use 5 on/2 off or 4 on/3 off, you wouldn't risk building a tolerance. There are many folks that have anectodally used GABA long term without any adverse effects. The only thing you will benefit from is better sleep on the days you would take it pre-bed.
Best,
Antigravity
Member
empty stomach is best, fasted state.
many preWO supplements contain a source of carbohydrate- and that would inhibit GH release.
If you insist on using PowerFull/1-carboxy preWO, I would suggest that you time it so that it is separate from your PreWO drink, and try to shoot for a sugar free PreWO drink.
AAKG/arginine can be of benefit to take WITH 1-carboxy because it inhibits somatostatin, which in turn would potentiate the GH release.
SonicSWOLE
Member
You sound smart, but I am afraid you need to re-read my post. Everything you stated, while may be true, has absolutely no relevance to my post. Thanks.
SonicSWOLE
Member
While Arginine is a SSI, in large amounts (or in a mix of other aminos) it can spike insulin. That of course be counterproductive as well, that is why I like INTRA application.
Antigravity
Member
Antigravity
Member
Perhaps I didnt make myself clear-
I just want to know your logic behind this.
Best,
soontobbeast
Well-known member
thanks for the info.
my '' preworkout drink'' is usually a glass of water and 2g of alcar, 3g aakg, and 3g beta alanine.
all of this is on an empty stomach, so i would assume taking carboxy with it wouldnt be a problem.
also, ive read that it takes something like 30g of protein [ pure protein and water, no carbs ] to spike insulin.
my '' preworkout drink'' is usually a glass of water and 2g of alcar, 3g aakg, and 3g beta alanine.
all of this is on an empty stomach, so i would assume taking carboxy with it wouldnt be a problem.
also, ive read that it takes something like 30g of protein [ pure protein and water, no carbs ] to spike insulin.
Antigravity
Member
from the sounds of your PreWO drink it seems to be alright-
true, however if you are relying on an oral secretogogue, empty stomach ensures fast, unmitigated absorption, which would yield maximal effects.
SonicSWOLE
Member
The studies you quoted are about a relavent as this study:
"The mechanism of L-arginine stimulation of glucose-induced insulin secretion from mouse pancreatic islets was studied. At 16.7 mmol/l glucose, L-arginine (10 mmol/l) potentiated both phases 1 and 2 of glucose-induced insulin secretion. This potentiation of glucose-induced insulin secretion was mimicked by the membrane depolarizing agents tetraethylammonium (TEA, 20 mmol/l) and K+ (60 mmol/l), which at 16.7 mmol/l glucose obliterated L-arginine (10 mmol/l) modulation of insulin secretion. Thus L-arginine may potentiate glucose-induced insulin secretion by stimulation of membrane depolarization. At 3.3 mmol/l glucose, L-arginine (10 mmol/l) failed to stimulate insulin secretion. In accordance with membrane depolarization by the electrogenic transport of L-arginine, however, L-arginine (10 mmol/l) stimulation of insulin secretion was enabled by the K+ channel inhibitor TEA (20 mmol/l), which potentiates membrane depolarization by L-arginine. Furthermore, L-arginine (10 mmol/l) stimulation of insulin secretion was permitted by forskolin (10 micromol/l) or tetradecanoylphorbol 13-acetate (0.16 micromol/l), which, by activation of protein kinases A and C respectively sensitize the exocytotic machinery to L-arginine-induced Ca2+ influx. Thus glucose may sensitize L-arginine stimulation of insulin secretion by potentiation of membrane depolarization and by activation of protein kinase A or protein kinase C. Finally, L-arginine stimulation of glucose-induced insulin secretion was mimicked by NG-nitro-L-arginine methyl ester (10 mmol/l), which stimulates membrane depolarization but inhibits nitric oxide synthase, suggesting that L-arginine-derived nitric oxide neither inhibits nor stimulates insulin secretion. In conclusion, it is suggested that L-arginine potentiation of glucose-induced insulin secretion occurs independently of nitric oxide, but is mediated by membrane depolarization, which stimulates insulin secretion through protein kinase A- and C-sensitive mechanisms. "
To which I don't find either of these applicable.
SonicSWOLE
Member
Again, I wouldn't mix the ingest the ingredients you have combined and would not use the BA pre-WO anyway.
To the second part, why do you ask about the 1-carboxy if you already know or have an answer?
To the third part.....eh, well.....there numerous studies/publications in regards to BCAA's or Free-forms spiking insulin. It is 2 am and I don't feel like pulling them up. I am sure you are bright enough to research them yourself if you really want to know.
Antigravity
Member
I agree that BCAA's have the potential to spike insulin, but that is not necessarily the case for protein- regardless, if youre using an oral secretogogue- wether it is GABA or 1-carboxy or anything else, I would take it on an empty stomach.
In regards to your study on arginine vs. mine - you proved that there are conflicting studies on the matter...?
In regards to your study on arginine vs. mine - you proved that there are conflicting studies on the matter...?
SonicSWOLE
Member
I agree with taking on an empty stomach. Hence my recommendation for takin approximately 45-30 min before completion of workout(and then you can have a preWo too).
IN regards to the arginine, yes, I was exhibiting that there are conflicting studies. In light of that, I would take my GABA seperately as mentioned.
I don't see how any of this is any different than what I had stated above. LMFAO!
.
rottie76
Active member
Go to a local grocery store and buy a set of scoops - they have precise measurements listed on them and one of them says 1/4 teaspoon so just make sure it's even - the powder I mean....
benj851
Well-known member
different powder = different weight.
1/4 teaspoon of alcar- 750 mgs
1/4 teaspoon of green tea extract 700mgs
1/4 teaspoon of uspowders pslin 400mg
1/4 teaspoon forskholii = 650 mg.
1/4 teaspoon of uspowders 1-carby = 800mgs
1/4 teaspoon of GABA =?????
Thanks for your input. But I was looking for a response from someone that has the old packaging of np's gaba that would have the information, because my micro scale just broke. or for that matter an np rep, who can contact np and can get the info.
thebigt
Legend
get you a new scale. when dealing with bulk powders it is essential. some bulks like ycl or 1,3,dime you don't want to guess at.
thebigt
Legend
that is a hard lesson. i learned the hard way too.
nevergoodenough
Board Supporter
1/4 of a tsp I believe yields 500-600mg. I've tried 3g of Gaba on an empty stomach pre w/o and got some real good pumps from it. My performance did suffer however, I was winded very easily. I would guess that it is best suited for heavy weight, low rep, moderate rest in between set, type workouts.
SonicSWOLE
Member
I believe 1/4tsp = 440mg. I know that is what 1****400 is.
kingdong
Well-known member
GABA creates a feeling of suffocation. Whether or not you are actually winded is something I can't answer.
thebigt
Legend
i don't think gh is even on panel, don't know for sure though?
F355
Member
The hard way eh? Try mistaking 0.5g for 50mg on your friends scale when trying to weigh out 1,3-dimethylamylamine (geranamine). Don't even ask how I misunderstood that, for some reason I thought it was set to mg but his scale weighs only at grams and only goes by the tenths place. When I figured out what the hell I did, I started pounding away on the water. It honestly felt harder than Adderall or Ephedrine, at their respective doses.
I highly urge anyone who buys bulk to get a scale from Nutra or at least a scale that measures up to the thousandths place and has different values (ounces, grams, milligrams, etc). Oh and double check your work lol. I would never want anyone to experience what I happened to me.
(unless your into that kind of stuff, hehe)
onder:Sorry for the slight hijack but boy would I have loved me some GABA when that happened to me lol
spartan300
Member
guess ill put this basal ganglia pathway up since i said i would....
direct pathway (excites cortex for stimulation of motor movement).
cortex sends excitatory signal to striatum. striatum sends inhibitory signal to medial globus pallidus. medial globus pallidus sends inhibitory signal to thalamus. thalamus sends excitatory signal to cortex.
indirect pathway (inhibits cortex for inhibition of motor movement, in control the majority of the time, say like 90%).
cortex sends excitatory signal to striatum. striatum sends inhibitory signal to lateral globus pallidus. lateral globus pallidus sends inhibitory signal to subthalamus. subthalamus sends an excitatory signal to medial globus pallidus. medial globus pallidus sends inhibitory signal to thalamus. thalamus sends excitatory signal to cortex.
the pathways above effects conscious motor control.
for involuntary motor control....i think you have axon collaterals coming off of ansa lenticularis (not completely sure and dont have my notes in front of me) that affect rubrospinals, tectospinals, vestibulospinals tracts, etc.
substantia nigra can stimulate striatum by dopamine neurotransmitter which can affect either direct or indirect pathway depending on what receptor it binds.
this basically makes a big loop and is easier to understand if you visualize it.
all inhibitory signals are gaba. excitatory signals are glutamate.
if you guys can understand that....good for you...its kinda confusing unless you have someone explain it to you.
direct pathway (excites cortex for stimulation of motor movement).
cortex sends excitatory signal to striatum. striatum sends inhibitory signal to medial globus pallidus. medial globus pallidus sends inhibitory signal to thalamus. thalamus sends excitatory signal to cortex.
indirect pathway (inhibits cortex for inhibition of motor movement, in control the majority of the time, say like 90%).
cortex sends excitatory signal to striatum. striatum sends inhibitory signal to lateral globus pallidus. lateral globus pallidus sends inhibitory signal to subthalamus. subthalamus sends an excitatory signal to medial globus pallidus. medial globus pallidus sends inhibitory signal to thalamus. thalamus sends excitatory signal to cortex.
the pathways above effects conscious motor control.
for involuntary motor control....i think you have axon collaterals coming off of ansa lenticularis (not completely sure and dont have my notes in front of me) that affect rubrospinals, tectospinals, vestibulospinals tracts, etc.
substantia nigra can stimulate striatum by dopamine neurotransmitter which can affect either direct or indirect pathway depending on what receptor it binds.
this basically makes a big loop and is easier to understand if you visualize it.
all inhibitory signals are gaba. excitatory signals are glutamate.
if you guys can understand that....good for you...its kinda confusing unless you have someone explain it to you.
luclyluciano
Well-known member
Been using NOW's gaba for about 1 week now, 2 grams b4 bed. Feeling relaxed/groggy in the morning. Neat feeling but not sure if anything more than that.
luclyluciano
Well-known member
Been using NOW's gaba for about 1 week now, 2 grams b4 bed. Feeling relaxed/groggy in the morning. Neat feeling but not sure if anything more than that.
kingdong
Well-known member
I read somewhere that if you throw some protein in with your carbs, you basically don't lose any GH. Wether or not this was true or trying to sell something is a mystery to me, but if it is true, maby we are being paranoid. Instead of being so determinined to keep carbs away from GABA, maby we should just add it to what we are already doing, and see if it works.
ohiostate2827
Well-known member
i sleep deep while on GABA
jaydollars
Well-known member
Me too, but I get nightmares from gaba, where as ZMA I sleep more pleasantly
Antigravity
Member
here are some reasons why people think gaba gets them shredded:
aside from the discussed impact on GH, Gaba also interferes with the release of cortisol, which means that it acts as a mild antiglucocorticoid....
Xanax- which like all benzos activate the GABA A receptors blunt cortisol release...
Alprazolam (A Benzodiazepine Activating GABA Receptor) Reduces the Neuroendocrine Responses to Insulin-Induced Hypoglycaemia in Humans
Roberta Giordano, Silvia Grottoli, PierClaudio Brossa, Micaela Pellegrino, Silvia Destefanis, Fabio Lanfranco, Laura Gianotti, Ezio Ghigo, Emanuela Arvat
Invalid Link Removed
wait heres one more:
Clinical and experimental studies on the role of GABA in the regulation of acth secretion: a review
Jones MT, Gillham B, Altaher AR, Nicholson SA, Campbell EA, Watts SM, Thody A.
PMID: 6147872 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
the above studies the inhibitory role of GABA on ACTH & CRH release at a hypothalmic level.
aside from the discussed impact on GH, Gaba also interferes with the release of cortisol, which means that it acts as a mild antiglucocorticoid....
Xanax- which like all benzos activate the GABA A receptors blunt cortisol release...
Alprazolam (A Benzodiazepine Activating GABA Receptor) Reduces the Neuroendocrine Responses to Insulin-Induced Hypoglycaemia in Humans
Roberta Giordano, Silvia Grottoli, PierClaudio Brossa, Micaela Pellegrino, Silvia Destefanis, Fabio Lanfranco, Laura Gianotti, Ezio Ghigo, Emanuela Arvat
Invalid Link Removed
wait heres one more:
Clinical and experimental studies on the role of GABA in the regulation of acth secretion: a review
Jones MT, Gillham B, Altaher AR, Nicholson SA, Campbell EA, Watts SM, Thody A.
PMID: 6147872 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
the above studies the inhibitory role of GABA on ACTH & CRH release at a hypothalmic level.
Antigravity
Member
I have to look into what the correlating dosages are... however, there are so many other things you can take besides Xanax that will modulate cortisol....
Blacktail
Member
Nothing knocks me out like 5g of GABA!
Ive tried half the sleep aids on NP, and seriously 5g of GABA and BAM! Im asleep!
Same here but I only use 1 gram and I have a great sleep, no waking up and I feel rested. I also have very vivid dreams.