At least 30g of Fish Oil daily?

snagency said:
I am not attributing my development solely to Poliquin-esque principles by any means; I have many of my own opinions/schematics/supplements that I incorporate, but I do utilize hi-dosing of FO and BCAA/EAA's, and I do acknowledge that this is very definitively a component of my approach to natural success..

out of curiosity marma: if I were a Poliquin athlete, would you say I, too, were doing gear? :think:
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Not at 195lbs...

Not all of Chuck's athletes are on gear but the athletes with unusual gains are definitely on gear.

I put on 30lbs of LBM between my Jr. and Sr. in high school but I was rehabing an injury. I went from 165 to 195 and I was 16/17 at the time. 30lbs in one month let alone three is a little ridiculous in a mature athlete.
 
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snagency said:
I am not attributing my development solely to Poliquin-esque principles by any means; I have many of my own opinions/schematics/supplements that I incorporate, but I do utilize hi-dosing of FO and BCAA/EAA's, and I do acknowledge that this is very definitively a component of my approach to natural success..

out of curiosity marma: if I were a Poliquin athlete, would you say I, too, were doing gear? :think:
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Most people with your size/look are on gear, I'd say 95%. I have more weight but still don't have your look
 
marmadogg said:
Not at 195lbs...
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now you're just being silly.
so, Franco Columbu - who competed at or under 200lbs, was not on gear then by this logic?
Not all of Chuck's athletes are on gear but the athletes with unusual gains are definitely on gear.
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well this is better - cuz you just said a few posts up that all of Chuck's athlete's are on gear, 'trust me'.
30lbs in one month let alone three is a little ridiculous in a mature athlete.
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now, that has merit.
 
intellectual dishonesty?? wtf are you talking about?
dude, I won't waste my time in a pissing match with you.
I see now why you only have 20 posts since 2007..you come in here and start spouting about a respected and renowned trainer, claiming he's advocating steroid use; and then you insult me with that line?

maybe you should go back to observing and stay silent until you have something tangible to say.

ciao bro, best to ya.
 
snagency said:
intellectual dishonesty?? wtf are you talking about?
dude, I won't waste my time in a pissing match with you.
I see now why you only have 20 posts since 2007..you come in here and start spouting about a respected and renowned trainer, claiming he's advocating steroid use; and then you insult me with that line?

maybe you should go back to observing and stay silent until you have something tangible to say.

ciao bro, best to ya.
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I never made a claim that a respected trainer is advocating steroid use. Please show where I said he advocated steroid use. That statement is pathetic.

Way to put words in my mouth.

Keep it intellectually dishonest.

ciao bro, best to ya.
 
A while back my blood pressure was WAY high and went to the doc. we were talking supplements and he told me to stop taking fish oil. Amazing my blood pressure has gone down.
 
gawwwwd, the misinformation around here is off the hook. ^^^

Countless studies have proven the effects on fish oil for blood pressure. Omega-3 fatty acids have been proven to lower high blood pressure and hypertension. One study from Baltimore, Maryland, showed that in many cases omega-3 supplements are comparable to sodium reduction and weight loss.

Recent independent clinical trials have proven these effects without a doubt. Using fish oil for blood pressure is extremely effective and many doctors and other experts today are recommending that everyone supplement with omega-3's, because their health benefits are just too good to pass up.
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please, please show me some literature to back up that fictitious claim you just made.
if it did indeed happen like you say,
#1 - I would go find a new doctor, and
#2 - you had to have changed something else other than eliminating fish oil -- or, you were on a serious stimulant when you first had your BP checked and then weren't the next.

otherwise, you are telling stories. period.
 
marmadogg said:
Chuck's athletes are not putting on mass from 45g of fish oil caps. I know this for a fact from first hand sources. They are putting on mass and stripping fat by training two to three times a day, five to six days a week.

There is only one way a human even with superior genetics can train that much...I know the cycles are mild but it is a well know fact that fish oil is not the secret by any stretch of the imagination.
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I will waste one more minute of my life to point out your idiocy.
intellectually dishonest..riiight. that's what you're being right there - not coming out and saying the man advocates steroids, but obviously inferring such.
I don't know; maybe that's how ppl roll in Joisey tho. :dunno:
 
Please people stop with the scare tactics about thinning blood and bad livers with regards to fish oil. If this was true in any way Japanese people would be dropping dead daily from the MASSIVE amounts of fish eaten by the average person in Japan.

Before anyone does the whole "but its different in food than the pill" horsecrap let me make this clear, the human body can not and does not distinguish between fish fat from a pill, liquid or a piece of salmon. The body simply knows what to do with the fatty acids once they are present in the body.

Taking in large doses of fish oil like that would not hurt you unless if was of poor quality and then we are talking about things other than the active omega 3's causing problems.
 
marmadogg said:
I never made a claim that a respected trainer is advocating steroid use. Please show where I said he advocated steroid use. That statement is pathetic.

Way to put words in my mouth.

Keep it intellectually dishonest.

ciao bro, best to ya.
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Dude you are barking up the wrong tree with Snag... he is a wealth of knowledge and is always honest. One of the most helpful guys on AM by the way, take a step back and realize you are arguing with someone who has been there, done that more times than you can count. There is a reason why he is a sponsored athlete for USP Labs... think before you speak.
 
Internal bleeding, you will bleed to death inside without even knowing it except for the whole feeling ill part :knockedout:
 
snagency said:
I will waste one more minute of my life to point out your idiocy.
intellectually dishonest..riiight. that's what you're being right there - not coming out and saying the man advocates steroids, but obviously inferring such.
I don't know; maybe that's how ppl roll in Joisey tho. :dunno:
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we is bettern that in indiana, lol. sside indy.:cheers:
 
EasyEJL said:
depending on specific details, the lowest i've ever heard anyone quoted was $18,000 a year, and i've heard as high as $24,000.....
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Jamie Winborn says he trained with him for a yr and it was some where around 14000 I think.

Jamie and I went to the same HS and have conversed on several occasions. We were 5 years difference in time, he now plays mlb in the nfl.
 
bmore said:
What? Fish oil? That is not cool, avant-garde, sexy, or exotic. Fish oil?

Yes. Fish oil. You cannot be anabolic without enough Omega 3s. For example, I was once training a first-round pick for the NFL. He put on 29 lbs of lean body mass in one month once I jacked his fish oil intake to 45 grams a day. If you want to put muscle on and lose fat, take at least 30 grams of fish oil a day.
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snagency said:
EasyEJ, couple nice posts..saw some other good points thruout this thread (hardknock, yeah the dude in question had some other things going on other than fish oil - don't think that was part of Charles' Rx tho!), but overall a lot of short-sidedness here.
Poliquin is a serious guru. yes, he does try to sell his own line -- that has been developed with his own nutritional philosophy in mind. that doesn't mean his supplements are of poor quality or that he doesn't know what he's talking about. I think the dude is brilliant.
I have dosed 30g fish oil before, with only positive effects. this was en route to a bb'ing show, where it made up roughly 2/3 of my 45-50g alotted fat intake daily..definitely had a positive impact on growth and body comp. in fact, truth be told, that timeframe is probably the biggest musculature I have had in my life. these days, depending on diet, the most I consume is 15g daily.
another thing -- I saw a mention of 'standard' fish oil caps..as usual, sourcing w/ your omega3's is everything. there is a lot of poor quality fish oil out there; and the 'standard' fish oil cap only contains 300mg of EPA/DHA per cap. the best way to go when ingesting this amount is actual liquid oil, not caps; if you do caps, you want to go with one that contains 1g per cap (GNC's Triple-Strength is 900mg per cap, and top-notch quality as well..no fishy burps w/ this stuff)..otherwise, using a standard 300mg dosing, you would have to consume @50 caps daily to get 15g!!
Poliquin also recommends hi-dosing BCAA's surrounding/intra workout for serious growth, upwards of 30g depending on bodyweight..I have seen excellent results with this tactic as well. what you guys have to realize is, this is hard-core recommendation for the natural athlete if you want to play on a level of the guys who are not natty..I would suggest you try these two shematics, combined with a solid diet, and see where your results go.
hi-dosing of omega3's will remain a staple in my regime for life.
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EasyEJL said:
Does anyone here besides me know what he charges for 1 year of acting as your trainer / dietician? when he is your trainer you are undergoing weekly to monthly blood tests including most of the micronutrient profiles you normally never get tested for (the individual vitamins for instance) and he tunes your diet to get you into peak performance levels of everything.

So yes, the fish oil is a small part of his program, but I agree, I saw no negative effects (other than super oily skin + hair first 3 weeks, but no pimples, just oily) at over 30g/day for 8 weeks. I cut myself, and had no bleeding issues, and my bp stayed in normal range. I believe it did contribute to a positive change in body comp as well
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The truth be told, yes, fish oil, in low, moderate or high doses is a good general health supplement with many benefits, and of course is not unhealthy, as many believe.

The truth also be told, neither of you, or myself have benefited in the range of 29lbs in one month. I have used in the upwards of 30 or more myself for years at a time and have seized using it in nothing more than 2g EPA/DHA range doses and have not had any diminished progress.

To suggest that mega dosing fish oil is of any mega anabolic characteristic is ridiculous. Otherwise the three of us would not still be hovering around 200lbs these many years later.

It's great for your heart health, brain health, skin and hair and even your mood. All of which can be achieved with reasonable doses.
 
The standard concentraion of fish oil is 300mg of n-3 for 1 gram of oil. So, thirty caps would be about 9 grams of n-3. For extended periods, this would cause ulcers. The shift of prostaglandin/thromboxine would cause too much cox inhibition. As stated, very dangerous for reducing blood clots. I bleed a lot after a simple orthoscopic surgery, likely due to fish oil consumption--even though I stopped the fish oil a week in advance. Remember, your body stores the fats and releases them later.

I failed to see the source where Charles Poliquin made this statement?
 
dietrich1972 said:
Please people stop with the scare tactics about thinning blood and bad livers with regards to fish oil. If this was true in any way Japanese people would be dropping dead daily from the MASSIVE amounts of fish eaten by the average person in Japan.

Before anyone does the whole "but its different in food than the pill" horsecrap let me make this clear, the human body can not and does not distinguish between fish fat from a pill, liquid or a piece of salmon. The body simply knows what to do with the fatty acids once they are present in the body.

Taking in large doses of fish oil like that would not hurt you unless if was of poor quality and then we are talking about things other than the active omega 3's causing problems.
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O'rly?
So by that logic I can just down 6 cups of go greens 6 days a week for the next 10 years and forget about eating actual veggies?

Let's make something perfectly clear...there is NO substitute for food. A supplement can not replace pure, natural food. This is why a supplement is an additive.

Please stop with the spread of this propaganda....
 
Also, btw, Cp´s athletes have taken anabolic steroids. I have no idea if they all do or if he even knows (though, i would be damn dumbfounded if he did not.)

I´ll personally vouch for several of his trainees. When you have been sitting there holding a vial in YOUR OWN HAND and talking to a few of his trainees, i would say that this is proof enough that some of his athletes take anabolic steroids, and or GH.

Ray Charles can see this...anyone that disagrees is viewing with a tainted heart.
 
Pirate! said:
The standard concentraion of fish oil is 300mg of n-3 for 1 gram of oil. So, thirty caps would be about 9 grams of n-3. For extended periods, this would cause ulcers. The shift of prostaglandin/thromboxine would cause too much cox inhibition. As stated, very dangerous for reducing blood clots. I bleed a lot after a simple orthoscopic surgery, likely due to fish oil consumption--even though I stopped the fish oil a week in advance. Remember, your body stores the fats and releases them later.

I failed to see the source where Charles Poliquin made this statement?
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There is the Alaskan brand that Costco has, which is a bit expensive but has claims of a 480mg combination of both_
 
hardknock said:
O'rly?
So by that logic I can just down 6 cups of go greens 6 days a week for the next 10 years and forget about eating actual veggies?

Let's make something perfectly clear...there is NO substitute for food. A supplement can not replace pure, natural food. This is why a supplement is an additive.

Please stop with the spread of this propaganda....
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You are missing the point and using a horrible comparison. The go greens have nothing to do with this. In addition I NEVER suggested not eating fish which can be one of the healthiest foods on the planet.

The discussion is FISH OIL causing problems. Stay on topic and you will then be able to understand my point.

Fish oil is nothing more than fish fat purified. It is simply fish fat in a pill. It is the same as the fat in any piece of fish. Now with that very simple easy to understand message I now circle back to my VALID AND CORRECT POINT.

If fish fat (fish oil) was as bad as is being claimed by some people then AGAIN, people in nations such as Japan with extremely high fish fat intake would be having a health crisis. Instead they live in extreme good health and are even recommended by their doctors to supplement with FISH OIL in addition to their high fish diet.
 
STPlover said:
The Japanese dont take fish oil pills, they eat fish. Its different.
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Actually they tend to do both but again as I stated earlier, fish oil is nothing more than fish fat purified in a pill or oil supplement.

The body simply does not distinguish between the two.

Now if there were impurities or added ingredients causing the health problem then that isn't the fault of the actual fish oil.

Stay with quality manufacturers so you don't run into problems.
 
dietrich1972 said:
Please people stop with the scare tactics about thinning blood and bad livers with regards to fish oil. If this was true in any way Japanese people would be dropping dead daily from the MASSIVE amounts of fish eaten by the average person in Japan.

Before anyone does the whole "but its different in food than the pill" horsecrap let me make this clear, the human body can not and does not distinguish between fish fat from a pill, liquid or a piece of salmon. The body simply knows what to do with the fatty acids once they are present in the body.

Taking in large doses of fish oil like that would not hurt you unless if was of poor quality and then we are talking about things other than the active omega 3's causing problems.
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Sorry but this is what you posted and this is what I drew my point from. This is purely and simply false. There are low grades of fish oils that are NOT JUST OF POOR quality because of "other" things besides omega 3's causing problems, but because supplements at times do not have adequate amounts.

So, to tell someone to "shut the crap" about a difference between natural fish oil and a poor quality supplement (which is what the majority of otc fish oils are) makes me wonder about your position on the subject matter. And or, your knowledge of it.

This is why I typed what I typed. Now, in our rebuttal, I see that you "cleared" up your points....You should have posted the last response the first time.
 
the end point is that there is no significant evidence anywhere that in humans high doses such as 30g/day are signficantly harmful, but there isn't much evidence that over 6g a day is more helpful either. It feels better at 30g, and after a while for it to build up it still feels as good lowered to 15g/day, but no evidence that it is a true health or ergogenic difference
 
Healthy fats or not..You will quickly put on a spare tire....The first round pick must have been the "fridge"
 
hardknock said:
Sorry but this is what you posted and this is what I drew my point from. This is purely and simply false. There are low grades of fish oils that are NOT JUST OF POOR quality because of "other" things besides omega 3's causing problems, but because supplements at times do not have adequate amounts.

So, to tell someone to "shut the crap" about a difference between natural fish oil and a poor quality supplement (which is what the majority of otc fish oils are) makes me wonder about your position on the subject matter. And or, your knowledge of it.

This is why I typed what I typed. Now, in our rebuttal, I see that you "cleared" up your points....You should have posted the last response the first time.
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So help me clear this up for myself and others. And please others join in on this. If in fact there is evidence of blood thinning or other negative health issues when using high dose fish oil, then exactly what is causing the problem.

Is it impurities or additives to certain brands of fish oil?

Is it the actual EPA/DHA itself? (this I strongly doubt)

Lets figure this out.
Thanks
 
Even though it is a healthy fat it us still fat. If you want a spare tire I would recommend it. The 1st round pic must have been the "fridge"
 
dietrich1972 said:
So help me clear this up for myself and others. And please others join in on this. If in fact there is evidence of blood thinning or other negative health issues when using high dose fish oil, then exactly what is causing the problem.

Is it impurities or additives to certain brands of fish oil?

Is it the actual EPA/DHA itself? (this I strongly doubt)

Lets figure this out.
Thanks
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Why would you think it is a problem if it causes thinning of blood? I actually have to 'take extra steps' in order to keep my blood thin so this would not be a problem for me if in fact 30g thinned the blood...would save me a hugh amount of money to be honest. So, I welcome that side effect ...

On top of that, the op asked about gaining that much muscle mass on 30g a day which is total insanity for anyone to believe, if you are thinking it is possible without a bit of 'help' on the side.

Since you cannot separate the impurity (if there is any) from the brand that you take then there really isn't much need to argue that point unless you are a dynamic chemist with a milliom dollar budget....just take a high quality brand
 
hardknock said:
Why would you think it is a problem if it causes thinning of blood? I actually have to 'take extra steps' in order to keep my blood thin so this would not be a problem for me if in fact 30g thinned the blood...would save me a hugh amount of money to be honest. So, I welcome that side effect ...

On top of that, the op asked about gaining that much muscle mass on 30g a day which is total insanity for anyone to believe, if you are thinking it is possible without a bit of 'help' on the side.

Since you cannot separate the impurity (if there is any) from the brand that you take then there really isn't much need to argue that point unless you are a dynamic chemist with a milliom dollar budget....just take a high quality brand
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That was the whole point of my first statement. MY PART of the conversation has to do with attacking the myth about fish oil and health issues. In the case of blood thinning someone posted earlier in this thread that it could be a health problem.

As for the impurities there multiple brands on the market with virtually zero impurities.

Back to my point earlier then, high dose fish oil IS NOT DANGEROUS.
 
dietrich1972 said:
Carlsons, GNC, and Nordic Naturals have the best reputations.
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my friend is a chemist at lily, he likes the wal mart brand the most. he cuts his open to check if it is rancid, the wal mart brand consistently checks out ok. another tip is to keep fish oil in refrigerator after opening bottle.
 
B5150 said:
The truth be told, yes, fish oil, in low, moderate or high doses is a good general health supplement with many benefits, and of course is not unhealthy, as many believe.
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absolutely.
The truth also be told, neither of you, or myself have benefited in the range of 29lbs in one month. I have used in the upwards of 30 or more myself for years at a time and have seized using it in nothing more than 2g EPA/DHA range doses and have not had any diminished progress.
To suggest that mega dosing fish oil is of any mega anabolic characteristic is ridiculous. Otherwise the three of us would not still be hovering around 200lbs these many years later.
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good point; however, there is more to the context at play here..I can't speak for you, but I myself have not gone on a calorically-rich diet that would have to accompany this type of supplementation in order to gain that amount of weight; there is no substance, either natural or steroidal, that will accrue that much mass w/o concurrent massive food intake. as my personal goal is to stay as svelte, flexible and lean as possible, at all times thru the year, this does not factor in my approach..210-212 is about the heaviest I 've ever been, and unless I can maintain low BF levels and flexibility I'd never want to be beyond that weight..
while I have never said fish-oil is mega-anabolic, I do believe it plays a significant role in the synergism of supplementation of the natural athlete, and provides many health benefits (yes including contributing to increased testosterone production)..reversing HDL : LDL ratios, improved organic brain function, nourishing for joints..too numerous to count.
 
when i was prescribed trt, my doc recommended fish oil to help with cholesterol.
 
dietrich1972 said:
That was the whole point of my first statement. MY PART of the conversation has to do with attacking the myth about fish oil and health issues. In the case of blood thinning someone posted earlier in this thread that it could be a health problem.

As for the impurities there multiple brands on the market with virtually zero impurities.

Back to my point earlier then, high dose fish oil IS NOT DANGEROUS.
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I'm gonna try and keep this short. Too much of a good thing can be bad as we all know. I already have low BP. Taking 15g ED (as stated earlier) caused my BP to drop dangerously low (80/45 - taken during the day, while active). It returned to 110/70 in three days after stopping. How can you throw out a blanket statement like "fish oil IS NOT DANGEROUS" for everyone? Makes NO sense. It IS a blood thinner also which can cause serious complications in people. People like my Aunts and Uncles are forbidden from taking fish oil when they are put on blood thinners (Warfarin etc). And as far as people in Japan, they generally eat very lightly. They do not take in 45g of O3's every day.
 
Wouldn't eating fatty fish a few times a week provide more omegas than taking like ten fish ois a day?
 
kingdong said:
Wouldn't eating fatty fish a few times a week provide more omegas than taking like ten fish ois a day?
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I would say it won't hurt, but if you fat intake is going to be increased it needs to be offset but a diminished carbohydrate intake otherwise fat storage will most likely occur (after a period of time at least). Fish oil caps/liquid are amazing at aiding in keeping you lean if you are dieting or on a lower carb intake, at least in my experience.
 
CrazyChemist said:
I wonder if fish oil could be used to treat high blood pressure? I take about 1g daily but maybe i'll up it.



I don't care how hard this guy worked or how great his diet was. 29 lean lbs in one month? That might be oil but not fish oil. :saeek:
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Possibly the "clear" and the "cream" oil?

:wink1:
 
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