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First PH cycle

xx Zues xx

xx Zues xx

Member
Hey this is my first post so forgive for any mistakes in advance.

Basically i'm planning to start my first PH. I was wondering whhat would be a first cycle looking to gain between 6-10lbs of lean mass in a 6 week cycle...
From what ive researched i'm very interested in havoc + 11 oxo. Is it worth doing a ''pulse'' and which support supps are recommended. Appreciate any advice help etc , thanks in advance
 
Have you used it personally? Is it a relatively mild pro anabolic? I just liked the idea of the other two as they dont aromatase... lol at spelling.Thanks
 
Go with 1-t tren ro 1-t...these are non toxic on your liver and are very safe for a starter. The H-Drol has a 17a-Methal which is very toxic on you liver but gives you good mass gains...I dont know its up to you...So weigh you options carefully, you should probably do some more research just to make sure that is what you want. I have dived right into a stack and regreted not slowing down and doing some solid reseach. If you are going to go with the 1-t tren or any tren product for that matter you need a good PCT and SERM for sure. Good luck man.
 
xx Zues xx said:
Hey this is my first post so forgive for any mistakes in advance.

Basically i'm planning to start my first PH. I was wondering what would be a first cycle looking to gain between 6-10lbs of lean mass in a 6 week cycle...
From what ive researched i'm very interested in havoc + 11 oxo. Is it worth doing a ''pulse'' and which support supps are recommended. Appreciate any advice help etc , thanks in advance
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For starters how old are you? I have personally run Havoc for 6 weeks in past cycles. Havoc is a very mild PH. Gains were great and I maintained most of them. I used Formex for my PCT. As said you should weigh out your options and make sure you do a ton of research before you start. Id run some cycle support for 2 weeks prior to starting and straight through your cycle and PCT. I used Super Pump 250 & Size-on during my PCT as well to maintain my gains. Overall I was very satisfied with my run with it. It is a great first run with PH's.
 
gymaddict20 said:
For starters how old are you? I have personally run Havoc for 6 weeks in past cycles. Havoc is a very mild PH. Gains were great and I maintained most of them. I used Formex for my PCT. As said you should weigh out your options and make sure you do a ton of research before you start. Id run some cycle support for 2 weeks prior to starting and straight through your cycle and PCT. I used Super Pump 250 & Size-on during my PCT as well to maintain my gains. Overall I was very satisfied with my run with it. It is a great first run with PH's.
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I'm 21. Havoc seems to be very popular for what it does (cuts and adds a lil mass) What type of gains did you experience? I was also looking into formex as its Formestane (which from what ive read seems to be the most potent AI currently available otc) with high oral bioavailability; not to loose track but do you think Formex is a good product in your experience? As on cycle support ive being looking into CEL Cycle Assist, think that will cut it with say a joint Formula? I had also planned on using creatine in pct to maintain aswell.
Sorry to ask so many questions but what was your dosing protocol for the Havoc and the Formex during PCT. Thanks in advance, really appropriate it.
 
lbond2 said:
Go with 1-t tren ro 1-t...these are non toxic on your liver and are very safe for a starter. The H-Drol has a 17a-Methal which is very toxic on you liver but gives you good mass gains...I dont know its up to you...So weigh you options carefully, you should probably do some more research just to make sure that is what you want. I have dived right into a stack and regreted not slowing down and doing some solid reseach. If you are going to go with the 1-t tren or any tren product for that matter you need a good PCT and SERM for sure. Good luck man.
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Thanks alot for your reply man, but dont you think a tren product is abit powerful as a first PH?From my reading it seems to be as powerfull as SD also from what ive heard the gains are also hard to maintain post cycle...
 
xx Zues xx said:
Thanks alot for your reply man, but dont you think a tren product is abit powerful as a first PH?From my reading it seems to be as powerfull as SD also from what ive heard the gains are also hard to maintain post cycle...
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21? how many years training? what's your diet like, please post your macro breakdown....e.g. protein/carbs and fat in grams. height and weight too please....
 
lennoxchi said:
21? how many years training? what's your diet like, please post your macro breakdown....e.g. protein/carbs and fat in grams. height and weight too please....
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Have been training since i was 17, Might diet is excellect although it has been calorie deficit for about 7 weeks whilst on a cut. im not entirely sure of everything on a gram basis but i have approx 6 meals a day with approximately 25-35 g of protein per meal with about 70 low gi carbs from brown pasta, brown bread, and oats. My diet is low in saturated and trans fat, i try to eat polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats from nuts almonds etc... Diet isn't the issue. I drink between 2.5-3l of water per day, i do not consume alcohol or drink. I ma about 5-10 in height and way approx yeah 160lbs (Lost about 11lbs in weight whilst cutting which i think largely was water due to my previous creatine cycle and a lil fat; as a had abs before the cut and are better defined now) I have an athletic background in (sprinting). In comparison to my weight i'm pretty strong

Other stats at 160lbs are:
Max Bench 264lbs
Max Deadlift 440lbs (set as a teen)
Max Parallel squat 462lbs

Thanks in advance for your input, appriate it
 
xx Zues xx said:
Have been training since i was 17, Might diet is excellect although it has been calorie deficit for about 7 weeks whilst on a cut. im not entirely sure of everything on a gram basis but i have approx 6 meals a day with approximately 25-35 g of protein per meal with about 70 low gi carbs from brown pasta, brown bread, and oats. My diet is low in saturated and trans fat, i try to eat polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats from nuts almonds etc... Diet isn't the issue. I drink between 2.5-3l of water per day, i do not consume alcohol or drink. I ma about 5-10 in height and way approx yeah 160lbs (Lost about 11lbs in weight whilst cutting which i think largely was water due to my previous creatine cycle and a lil fat; as a had abs before the cut and are better defined now) I have an athletic background in (sprinting). In comparison to my weight i'm pretty strong

Other stats at 160lbs are:
Max Bench 264lbs
Max Deadlift 440lbs (set as a teen)
Max Parallel squat 462lbs

Thanks in advance for your input, appriate it
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i would say havoc would not be a bad product to use for a first cycle. as far as support supps go, AI makes a product called cycle support which basiclly has the kitchen sink of support supps in it. as far as PCT goes i suggest a SERM, but some do not. i would run nolva or clomid at a low dose just to cover your bases.
 
lennoxchi said:
i would say havoc would not be a bad product to use for a first cycle. as far as support supps go, AI makes a product called cycle support which basiclly has the kitchen sink of support supps in it. as far as PCT goes i suggest a SERM, but some do not. i would run nolva or clomid at a low dose just to cover your bases.
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Thanks. Yeah i have looked into that, its a toss between AI cycle support and CEL cycle assist... which looks better to you? if i were not able to obtain a serm do you think a Trans-Resveratrol product (6-oxo extreme) would be a good choice? Also im looking at a fomestane product in pct, Formex, thoughts?

Thanks
 
xx Zues xx said:
Thanks. Yeah i have looked into that, its a toss between AI cycle support and CEL cycle assist... which looks better to you? if i were not able to obtain a serm do you think a Trans-Resveratrol product (6-oxo extreme) would be a good choice? Also im looking at a fomestane product in pct, Formex, thoughts?

Thanks
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if your not or can't do a SERM in PCT then i would highly suggest an AI or some sort and a natty test booster like DTH by diesel nutrition. if you run the havoc at a low enough dose you s/b fine. have you also looked into h-drol?
 
lennoxchi said:
if your not or can't do a SERM in PCT then i would highly suggest an AI or some sort and a natty test booster like DTH by diesel nutrition. if you run the havoc at a low enough dose you s/b fine. have you also looked into h-drol?
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not really is it worth a go? low dose being 30mg ED? btw isnt h-drol like superdrol? or am i misinformed?
Thanks
 
xx Zues xx said:
not really is it worth a go? low dose being 30mg ED? btw isnt h-drol like superdrol? or am i misinformed?
Thanks
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someone or somewhere you've been very misinformed. H-Drol is one of the best "starter" PS out there in my opinion. it's not very toxic to the body when compared to SD,PP and even a bit lighter than Havoc/Epi. it's probably the best summer PS due to it's leaning out capablity. i don't know about everyone else but i experienced becoming leaner, a libido that riveled a porn-star, a sense of well-being and a lot of energy. i will suggest not taking it too close to bed time as i lost sleep doing this. a common dosage would be 50/50/75/75/75. this is a PS that does not kick in for about 2 weeks or so, 5 to 6 week cycles are common here.
 
lennoxchi said:
someone or somewhere you've been very misinformed. H-Drol is one of the best "starter" PS out there in my opinion. it's not very toxic to the body when compared to SD,PP and even a bit lighter than Havoc/Epi. it's probably the best summer PS due to it's leaning out capablity. i don't know about everyone else but i experienced becoming leaner, a libido that riveled a porn-star, a sense of well-being and a lot of energy. i will suggest not taking it too close to bed time as i lost sleep doing this. a common dosage would be 50/50/75/75/75. this is a PS that does not kick in for about 2 weeks or so, 5 to 6 week cycles are common here.
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Thanks again for your input!Its helping significantly!repped! You speak of a leaning out effect which from my research havoc/epi gives, but from user feedback epi appears to add lean mass to the user. Is this effect apparent for hdrol with it being a 'mild' Ph

thanks
 
xx Zues xx said:
Thanks again for your input!Its helping significantly!repped! You speak of a leaning out effect which from my research havoc/epi gives, but from user feedback epi appears to add lean mass to the user. Is this effect apparent for hdrol with it being a 'mild' Ph

thanks
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yes lean mass will be gained by both epi/havoc or hdrol. keep in kind this is diet dependent not pill or capsule dependent. your going to want to eat somewhere around maintence in the calorie depertment, while keeping protein higher than normal, not a lot higher but due to how and what PH/PS does for your body, you're going to want to be somewhere in the 1.5 gram per lb. of body weight area for protein. then simply figure out cals from carbs and fat from there to bring you to maintence. carbs and protein have 4 cals per gram and fats have 9 cals per gram.....just fyi
 
lennoxchi said:
yes lean mass will be gained by both epi/havoc or hdrol. keep in kind this is diet dependent not pill or capsule dependent. your going to want to eat somewhere around maintence in the calorie depertment, while keeping protein higher than normal, not a lot higher but due to how and what PH/PS does for your body, you're going to want to be somewhere in the 1.5 gram per lb. of body weight area for protein. then simply figure out cals from carbs and fat from there to bring you to maintence. carbs and protein have 4 cals per gram and fats have 9 cals per gram.....just fyi
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Sorry for the stupid question, i understand 1.5 gram per lb for protein for obvious reasons but i am unsure to lower or increase carb intake? If i increase will i still experience a significant leaning effect or is this effect only achievable with low carb? Also i know fat is beneficial for digestion of compounds but will it be advisable to lower or increase aswell?

Thanks
 
I would go with H-Drol or Epi. Some say if you do a cycle of H-drol you don't have to use a SERM during pct. AI's PCS could do the job.
 
only ran havoc, but i didnt like it. made me feel bloated and my joints kill.

personally id go with hdrol as i havent heard about joint pain and seems to produce nice lean gains
 
xx Zues xx said:
Sorry for the stupid question, i understand 1.5 gram per lb for protein for obvious reasons but i am unsure to lower or increase carb intake? If i increase will i still experience a significant leaning effect or is this effect only achievable with low carb? Also i know fat is beneficial for digestion of compounds but will it be advisable to lower or increase aswell?

Thanks
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it's hard for me to give advise of diet because everyone's different when it comes to carbs. some are "carb sensitive" which means that carbs will put weight on them more easily than others. if you know how your body reacts to carbs then you can plan your diet accordingly. you will not need to diet down to lean out on hdrol, well, at least i didn't. i would keep carbs a little lower than protein, and healthy fats lowest. something like 50/30/20....i doesn't need to be perfect for god's sakes but it needs to be sensible. figure out your maintenance cals and go from there. visit the diet nutrition section here for more help.
 
lennoxchi said:
it's hard for me to give advise of diet because everyone's different when it comes to carbs. some are "carb sensitive" which means that carbs will put weight on them more easily than others. if you know how your body reacts to carbs then you can plan your diet accordingly. you will not need to diet down to lean out on hdrol, well, at least i didn't. i would keep carbs a little lower than protein, and healthy fats lowest. something like 50/30/20....i doesn't need to be perfect for god's sakes but it needs to be sensible. figure out your maintenance cals and go from there. visit the diet nutrition section here for more help.
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Thanks again for sharing your knowledge with me, appriate it.
 
i would not do any PS of PH or AAS no matter how mild without a serm man. just no reason to risk it, I've experienced what a bad PCT does to you with low natural test levels and its SOOOO hard to get your levels back to normal and takes a long long time. i would recommend a mild Torem PCT with some cortisol control thrown in starting 1 week into PCT.
 
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