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Is my CKD working right?

bezoe

bezoe

Well-known member
Alright, I can personally testify that this diet is effective for weight loss. Many people have commented on the slimness in my face (and my neck :worried:) The scale says I've lost 16 pounds (226 to 210) but I cant see it in my waist and the Omron BF analyzer results have not changed. What kind of weight am I losing?
 
fat and water. For men the stomach is one of the last places fat is lost. Just keep at it and it will come!
 
Any theory on why my BF% has stayed the same according to the electric impulse analyzer?
 
bezoe said:
Any theory on why my BF% has stayed the same according to the electric impulse analyzer?
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Well those bodyfat analyzers can be completely off sometimes...I've seen it being off as much as 5-9%! So it could have just been a bad reading that day or something, it would be much better to try and get a caliper bodyfat measurement if possible.
 
I've used the same ones consistently and they fluccuate between 20 and 22%. Is it possible that this is correct and somehow different factors are equating to the same percentage? I am just baffled about how I've lost 16 pounds but no bodyfat (according to the omron). FYI, my strength has not changed on my lifts, although I get exhausted late in the week-of course.
 
i'm on CKD now too, i can tell i'm leaner because I have more definition in my shoulders, traps, quads, bi's....pretty much everywhere but my belly area lol. so you're not alone on this. but i do agree with rrm, i heard the abdomen is the primary storage area of fat so i would think it would take longest to lose it from there. just keep it up man :usa1:
 
Yea I've been on 5 weeks now, so I would consider 16 pounds pretty significant. I guess I want to see numbers (BF %) I'm ready to smash this omron with a sledge!

Someone did mention cleverly the other day that the belly is the first place it accumulates and the last place it leaves.
 
I'm not familiar with the machine you are using, but if you lost pounds and people see it in your face, then you are losing fat. I don't know how accurate those things are, and based on the replies so far, they aren't. I would make sure your scale is as accurate as possible, check your weight once a week, first thing after waking and taking a piss and before consuming anything. Just log it and keep on keeping on. If scale weight is going down and belt and pants start getting loose, you will know. you can also take progress pics once a month or so because you can't be objective looking at yourself in the mirror. You can put two pics side by side and analyze them objectively to see where your improvements are. You are on the right track averaging 3 lbs per week so far, so you probably aren't lossing tons of muscle.
 
I dont think I'm gonna be on a keto diet long enough to do a monthly comparison. I know the diet is muscle sparing, and I'm now down to 206 with same strength and muscles look fuller on weekends when I'm carbed up, so I'm content. I just wanna hear that the BF% device is garbage! Thanks everyone
 
My body fat % device was bull ****!

I did the following test...

Got my bodyfat reading of 13%
went to my room and picked up a 5kg weight
Went back on the scales and my bodyfat had hit 16%

It was obviously just calculating my weight against my height and age.... total ****.
 
Yes! thats what I want to hear! I'm finished with the CKD now and lost 15-20 pounds, most of which I'm sure has to be fat. Now I just have to watch the late day carbs!
 
go get yourself a caliper test done. through a university or a doctor. then u will know your real bf, to me those bio electric machines aren't worth it.
 
I'm down 28 lbs and i'm into week 12. Calipers are the best way to go - those electronic things are bullshit - they are all dependent on how much you've eaten during the day, how much water you're holding, etc.

How do you guys structure your cheat meals? I've read that people do the 24-36 hour carb load - but I generally just have one big ass cheat meal as my last meal of the day on sunday.
 
"Cheat Meal" meaning a carb meal? Each week, I started the carb up immediately after the friday depletion w/o and kept it going until late sunday. I could get into ketosis fairly quickly by at least tuesday afternoon with the two heavy workouts monday and tuesday, followed by HIIT.
 
Yea on Sunday ill just eat a bunch of corn tacos all day. Maybe some ice cream since i love the stuff. I have never got real deep in Ketosis though. What the average count? Do you just have to go longer without a cheat day to get deeper or go no carbs at all?
 
bezoe said:
"Cheat Meal" meaning a carb meal? Each week, I started the carb up immediately after the friday depletion w/o and kept it going until late sunday. I could get into ketosis fairly quickly by at least tuesday afternoon with the two heavy workouts monday and tuesday, followed by HIIT.
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Yes. Cheat meal being a carb meal. I got my diet from Evan Centopani, he does a 1:1 calorie ratio of proteins to fat (based on LBM). Cheat meal is only once a week, and is the last meal of the day and as close as you can get it to bedtime (i usually eat it about 2 hours prior to jumping into bed). The cheat should consist of atleast 200g of carbs and you can eat whatever you want, and as much as you want in an hour time frame.

I was just curious if results were better doing the 24-36 hour feed or as I just described above.

HarryManback said:
Yea on Sunday ill just eat a bunch of corn tacos all day. Maybe some ice cream since i love the stuff. I have never got real deep in Ketosis though. What the average count? Do you just have to go longer without a cheat day to get deeper or go no carbs at all?
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What do you mean by the average count? I always go 7 days before a cheat and make it the last meal of the day.
 
HarryManback said:
I meant the Ketosis count. Yea im always on day 7 too. I didnt know how far IN to Ketosis people usually made it.
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To be honest, I really don't even bother with the count/piss strips. I can feel the difference between being in ketosis and not in ketosis - if your diet, cardio, and training are in order (which they should be) then full steam ahead.
 
I've only been in deep keto twice off of the pee sticks. Most of the time I'm in the light colors of the stick, but I burn alot of energy I w/o 6 days a week and I work at a very intense job five days a week. remember when you use alot of enery the pee stick will be pale'er. your body uses whatever energy can get. for the most part tho. I carb up on sat morning and end sunday evening. Sat I eat low GI foods except for icecream in the evening. then sunday again except for the eveing meal.

I know I'm in keto because unless I drink alot of water, or take alot of vitamins my pee is always pale (antiquish) yellow. just fyi, not that you wanna know the color of my pee or anything. lol.

for what its worth tho. I've gone days on keto eating 150g of low GI carbs a day while maintaining keto. just fyi. if your body needs the gylcogen it needs it.
 
TheDarkHalf said:
I was just curious if results were better doing the 24-36 hour feed or as I just described above.
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Yea. Sorry. I have just never associated "cheat meal" with carbs. Typically, during normal diet, it means a cheeseburger or something. I can't imagine just eating one carb meal per week. The whole concept of the 24-36 hour refeed is "glycogen supercompensation", a suppossed "anabolic" action where the body rebuilds any muscle lost during the week, plus more! (due to very high insulin sensitivity- a topic being discussed in a thread you and I have partaken in about caffiene and insulin resistance... uh yea. profound one!) The one and one-half day carb up gives me adequate energy to perform my heavy workouts on monday and tuesday, then like I said I can usually hit ketosis by tuesday evening. You might want to try this method, simply due to the anabolic properties.
 
benj851 said:
I've only been in deep keto twice off of the pee sticks. Most of the time I'm in the light colors of the stick, but I burn alot of energy I w/o 6 days a week and I work at a very intense job five days a week. remember when you use alot of enery the pee stick will be pale'er. your body uses whatever energy can get. for the most part tho. I carb up on sat morning and end sunday evening. Sat I eat low GI foods except for icecream in the evening. then sunday again except for the eveing meal.

I know I'm in keto because unless I drink alot of water, or take alot of vitamins my pee is always pale (antiquish) yellow. just fyi, not that you wanna know the color of my pee or anything. lol.

for what its worth tho. I've gone days on keto eating 150g of low GI carbs a day while maintaining keto. just fyi. if your body needs the gylcogen it needs it.
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Precisely, therefore it's not necessarily good to be in deep ketosis. You actually want to keep constantly burning those ketones:1. to keep burning fat. 2. to prevent cell membrane damage from low PH due to ketoacidosis.
 
bezoe said:
Yea. Sorry. I have just never associated "cheat meal" with carbs. Typically, during normal diet, it means a cheeseburger or something. I can't imagine just eating one carb meal per week. The whole concept of the 24-36 hour refeed is "glycogen supercompensation", a suppossed "anabolic" action where the body rebuilds any muscle lost during the week, plus more! (due to very high insulin sensitivity- a topic being discussed in a thread you and I have partaken in about caffiene and insulin resistance... uh yea. profound one!) The one and one-half day carb up gives me adequate energy to perform my heavy workouts on monday and tuesday, then like I said I can usually hit ketosis by tuesday evening. You might want to try this method, simply due to the anabolic properties.
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I may try this out. However, i've been losing weight just fine having just the one cheat meal on sunday evening. I'm starting week 15 of keto and i'm down 30 lbs. I'm probably going to come off of keto in a week or two and carb cycle for about 8 weeks and then see where i'm at.
 
TheDarkHalf said:
I may try this out. However, i've been losing weight just fine having just the one cheat meal on sunday evening. I'm starting week 15 of keto and i'm down 30 lbs. I'm probably going to come off of keto in a week or two and carb cycle for about 8 weeks and then see where i'm at.
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Wow, 30 lbs is impressive! I bet your'e close to being shredded. CKD is great for preserving muscle so if your'e getting enough protein, I'm sure your not burning any, even with just one cheat meal. I'd have liked to accurately kept track of my fat loss, but well... piece of s*** Omron.
 
bezoe said:
Wow, 30 lbs is impressive! I bet your'e close to being shredded. CKD is great for preserving muscle so if your'e getting enough protein, I'm sure your not burning any, even with just one cheat meal. I'd have liked to accurately kept track of my fat loss, but well... piece of s*** Omron.
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Thanks man. Unfortunately i'm prolly sitting around 12% at 200ish at 6'0, still got some work to do! I'm doing 1.5g protein per lb so i'm covered. I don't feel like i've lost any muscle since my last bulk, all my cardio is low intensity incline treadmill or stairmill.
 
bezoe said:
Alright, I can personally testify that this diet is effective for weight loss. Many people have commented on the slimness in my face (and my neck :worried:) The scale says I've lost 16 pounds (226 to 210) but I cant see it in my waist and the Omron BF analyzer results have not changed. What kind of weight am I losing?
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For what its worth, I've lost over 50 pounds since my peak and my waist has barely moved at all. This is despite hitting abs 3-5 times per week pretty hard.

My face looks much leaner, my man boobs are gone, and my legs are now solid, but the difference in the belly is barely noticeable.
 
Yea that stomach fat is a biotch. I also lost 30 lbs, but figured i would be shredded. Nope. I am certainly leaner, and look better, but no where near where I want. Stupid body(Chris Griffin voice).
 
TheDarkHalf said:
:gotsearch
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Sure I have search. But When there are 10 pages of results on the google search and when you get "Please specify some words or valid user names to search on. There were no matches for those that you specified." for the board search, its easier to just ask.
 
JDK5386 said:
For what its worth, I've lost over 50 pounds since my peak and my waist has barely moved at all. This is despite hitting abs 3-5 times per week pretty hard.

My face looks much leaner, my man boobs are gone, and my legs are now solid, but the difference in the belly is barely noticeable.
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keep up the hard work. You know that you can do abs 150 times a week and it won't burn off belly fat, right? Abs 2-3 times is sufficient. You are building the muscle under the flab so once it's gone, there is your 6 pack. Don't waste more time than necessary on abs that you could spend on extra cardio or something else.
 
youngandfree said:
keep up the hard work. You know that you can do abs 150 times a week and it won't burn off belly fat, right? Abs 2-3 times is sufficient. You are building the muscle under the flab so once it's gone, there is your 6 pack. Don't waste more time than necessary on abs that you could spend on extra cardio or something else.
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Yep. It's called "spot reduction" and no such thing exists. But maybe if you do them very rapidly, it will increase your heart rate and therefore burn belly fat. :dunno:
 
bezoe said:
Precisely, therefore it's not necessarily good to be in deep ketosis. You actually want to keep constantly burning those ketones:1. to keep burning fat. 2. to prevent cell membrane damage from low PH due to ketoacidosis.
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In healthy non diabetic subjects I don't think ketoacidosis is even possible. And it's the other way around, the burning of fat produces ketones.
 
youngandfree said:
keep up the hard work. You know that you can do abs 150 times a week and it won't burn off belly fat, right? Abs 2-3 times is sufficient. You are building the muscle under the flab so once it's gone, there is your 6 pack. Don't waste more time than necessary on abs that you could spend on extra cardio or something else.
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You want to do stuff that targets visceral body fat. Something like HIIT.
 
ThomasRivera said:
In healthy non diabetic subjects I don't think ketoacidosis is even possible. And it's the other way around, the burning of fat produces ketones.
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Yes, I know it's possible.
8.2.2 Starvation Ketosis
When hepatic glycogen stores are exhausted (eg after 12-24 hours of total fasting), the liver produces ketones to provide an energy substrate for peripheral tissues. Ketoacidosis can appear after an overnight fast but it typically requires 3 to 14 days of starvation to reach maximal severity. Typical ketoanion levels are only 1 to 2 mmol/l and this will not much alter the anion gap. The acidosis even with quite prolonged fasting is only ever of mild to moderate severity with ketoanion levels up to a maximum of 3 to 5 mmol/l and plasma pH down to 7.3. This is probably due to the insulin level, which though lower, is still enough to keep the FFA levels less than 1mM. This limits substrate delivery to the liver restraining hepatic ketogenesis. Ketone bodies also stimulate some insulin release from the islets. The anion gap will usually not be much elevated.Invalid Link Removed

Also, the breakdown of fat (lipolysis) yeilds three ketone bodies (acetoacetate, beta hydroxybuterate and acetone) which are then burned for quick energy. So they can build up in blood plasma over time and cause the mild, non-diabetic ketoacidosis. This is why ketone levels will be low or trace after a cardio session while on the diet.
 
bezoe said:
Yes, I know it's possible.
8.2.2 Starvation Ketosis
When hepatic glycogen stores are exhausted (eg after 12-24 hours of total fasting), the liver produces ketones to provide an energy substrate for peripheral tissues. Ketoacidosis can appear after an overnight fast but it typically requires 3 to 14 days of starvation to reach maximal severity. Typical ketoanion levels are only 1 to 2 mmol/l and this will not much alter the anion gap. The acidosis even with quite prolonged fasting is only ever of mild to moderate severity with ketoanion levels up to a maximum of 3 to 5 mmol/l and plasma pH down to 7.3. This is probably due to the insulin level, which though lower, is still enough to keep the FFA levels less than 1mM. This limits substrate delivery to the liver restraining hepatic ketogenesis. Ketone bodies also stimulate some insulin release from the islets. The anion gap will usually not be much elevated.Invalid Link Removed

Also, the breakdown of fat (lipolysis) yeilds three ketone bodies (acetoacetate, beta hydroxybuterate and acetone) which are then burned for quick energy. So they can build up in blood plasma over time and cause the mild, non-diabetic ketoacidosis. This is why ketone levels will be low or trace after a cardio session while on the diet.
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Thanks for the source, but I specifically wrote healthy subjects because I've never read a case about a healthy person doing ketosis that suffered from ketoacidosis. I think healthy would exclude starving, but reps for the source.

Now I'm quoting from Lyles book, but if you have anything updated, please share. "...In non diabetic individuals there are at least two feedback loops to prevent runaway ketoacidosis...when ketones reach high concentrations int he blood stream, they stimulate a release of insulin...First it slows ffa release from the fat cell. Second, by raising the insulin/glucagon ration, the rate of ketone body formation in the liver is decreased. Third, it increases the excretion of ketones into the urine"
 
ThomasRivera said:
Thanks for the source, but I specifically wrote healthy subjects because I've never read a case about a healthy person doing ketosis that suffered from ketoacidosis. I think healthy would exclude starving, but reps for the source.

Now I'm quoting from Lyles book, but if you have anything updated, please share. "...In non diabetic individuals there are at least two feedback loops to prevent runaway ketoacidosis...when ketones reach high concentrations int he blood stream, they stimulate a release of insulin...First it slows ffa release from the fat cell. Second, by raising the insulin/glucagon ration, the rate of ketone body formation in the liver is decreased. Third, it increases the excretion of ketones into the urine"
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Ok. Maybe these pathways of regulation are the reason that ketoacidosis in heatlhy individuals doesn't become harmful- the body slows production and pisses out excess ketones. Whereas, in a diabetics unable to produce insulin or who's insulin receptors were diminished, it would be destructive to tissues and such. So really there is a build up of ketones, but no actual ketoacidosis. Reps.

Man, when I was on the diet I made sure I did some cardio every day so I didn't get brain damage or something!
 
Most unhealthy diabetics that might get ketoacidosis do so because most every other part of their diet/lifestyle is crappy also which further spirals their problems down the drain.
 
bezoe said:
Ok. Maybe these pathways of regulation are the reason that ketoacidosis in heatlhy individuals doesn't become harmful- the body slows production and pisses out excess ketones. Whereas, in a diabetics unable to produce insulin or who's insulin receptors were diminished, it would be destructive to tissues and such. So really there is a build up of ketones, but no actual ketoacidosis. Reps.

Man, when I was on the diet I made sure I did some cardio every day so I didn't get brain damage or something!
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Read "The Ketogenic diet" By Lyle McDonald, its all over the net, posted somewhere on this site for free.
 
ThomasRivera said:
Read "The Ketogenic diet" By Lyle McDonald, its all over the net, posted somewhere on this site for free.
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Yes, I'm very familiar with that. But I didn't know if there was some other version as a book or something that you obtained your data from.
 
bezoe said:
Yes, I'm very familiar with that. But I didn't know if there was some other version as a book or something that you obtained your data from.
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Other books I read are The Anabolic Diet and The Anabolic Solution for BB/PL.

Other than that I go on Invalid Link Removed for a lot of other things. The information I quoted was directly out of The Ketogenic Diet book, page 32
 
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