WTF is wrong with my arms?

The one thing i've taken from reading on DC Training more so than anything else is this. (The quote and numbers are not exactly what Dante said but I am too lazy to go look for the exact quote, this is the gist of it)

"You dont see people who are benching 400 pounds, squatting 600 pounds and deadlifting 700 pounds complaining about quads that arent growing or the size of there chest/bi's/back."

This quote alone has convinced me to go heavy in almost every exercise I do and to continue to strive to get stronger.
 
h0other said:
The one thing i've taken from reading on DC Training more so than anything else is this. (The quote and numbers are not exactly what Dante said but I am too lazy to go look for the exact quote, this is the gist of it)

"You dont see people who are benching 400 pounds, squatting 600 pounds and deadlifting 700 pounds complaining about quads that arent growing or the size of there chest/bi's/back."

This quote alone has convinced me to go heavy in almost every exercise I do and to continue to strive to get stronger.
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i cant lift anything near those weights and i still get growth.

Those kinds of numbers are from freaks, powerlifters or the very very experienced. Enhancers help also.

Im with mental, put up or shut up.

Let the OP have his thread.

Still waiting for the ATG 305 vid.
 
Never said you needed to lift those numbers for growth. I never even said you had to EVER get those numbers. The point of that quote is to say to keep getting stronger and stronger and with the strength size will come. I dont even do DC lifting anymore, I incorporate a bunch of different things in my workout. But I do respect Dante and DC Training greatly. Pic's will be up this week.
 
h0other said:
keep getting stronger and stronger and with the strength size will come.
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Simply not true. Strength doesn't mean size, if that were the case there wouldn't be two types of hypertrophy

Gaining size is completely in the nutrition, it has less to do with the weight, reps, routine, etc. but more in the nutrition. Someone isn't required to get bigger just because they're getting stronger. If you kept to a low calorie diet and you lifted heavy in the meantime. Of course you'd get stronger, but instead of producing new muscle, your body will begin to use the muscle it has more efficiently (think lightweight powerlifters here).

All over the internet (youtube) there are videos of guys half my size putting up double what I can. Simply because they have a more efficient CNS and a less efficient diet. Adding weight to the bar is essential to getting bigger, but getting big is in the calorie surplus, the "type" of big that you get is in the calorie surplus, as well. For example eat fat and expect to get fat, eat lean, healthy, nutritious foods and expect to stay lean, healthy and nutritious.

If getting stronger automatically meant getting bigger, then our size would be dictated by how much weight we could move alone.
 
If you "lifted heavy but were in a calorie deficit" without PH or AAS you most likely wouldn't get stronger but even if you did you'd be recomping(building muscle/losing fat). I think you are combining fat and muscle into one group.


I'm so tired of arguing about this, I didnt say that it was true 99% of the time nor 49% of the time. I said I liked that quote from DC and I still do agree with it.
 
and bigger means more Lean Body Mass not fat.

and getting bigger doesn't depend on any ONE thing. It depends on nutrition, sleep, lifting hard, not excessively drinking alcohol, changing routines in the gym.... and on and on and on. That's why people who are really serious about bodybuilding/powerlifting I believe deserve the utmost of respect. As my signature says "bodybuilding is not a hobby, it's a way of life."
 
h0other said:
If you "lifted heavy but were in a calorie deficit" without PH or AAS you most likely wouldn't get stronger but even if you did you'd be recomping(building muscle/losing fat). I think you are combining fat and muscle into one group.
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When you lift heavy weights, you train your CNS, you're not training muscle tissue as much with a moderate weight and medial reps in example 5-10 reps. Therefore you wouldn't need to eat for protein synthesis but simply enough brain function to use the CNS effectively.

Lifting heavy in a calorie deficient happens all the time, go to a gym and look at those 17 year olds that are getting stronger but eats what they want and when they want. Some guys age +30 still do it, I even gained strength in a cutting phase once. Your body will adapt and become better to something it's supplemented to, especially lifting heavy weights, take construction workers for example and coal miners, they are all strong but most of them typically don't have a calorie surplus diet.
 
We're not going to agree on this topic. But that's fine, we don't need to.

My perspective on what you just said --
The 17 year olds that are getting stronger are mainly getting stronger because they are new to lifting weights and you can gain alot of strength just off of getting your muscle memory down on doing the exercises they are doing.

Construction workers -- Come on now. I'm training one right now at the gym and he by no means is strong. Most of the stronger ones are the fat ones with a 4 foot wide beer belly, and how do youget a 4 foot wide belly? CALORIE SURPLUS. Anyone over 8%bf lives most of there days in a calorie surplus. People don't realize how easy it is to eat more than maintenence calories until they write down EVERYTHING they eat.
 
dg806 said:
I'd also like to see the 300lb bench. At 164, that is quite a feat. Thats almost double your body weight and not many can do that.
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My training partner who's 16 can hit 315 and he's 168. But he is also a little beast lol. I'd like to see the video too ^_^
 
h0other said:
Construction workers -- Come on now. I'm training one right now at the gym and he by no means is strong. Most of the stronger ones are the fat ones with a 4 foot wide beer belly, and how do youget a 4 foot wide belly? CALORIE SURPLUS. Anyone over 8%bf lives most of there days in a calorie surplus. People don't realize how easy it is to eat more than maintenence calories until they write down EVERYTHING they eat.
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You're talking about a different type calorie surplus in this situation. If he has a 4 feet wide belly, he's burning a lot of calories with his manual labor job and chances are he isn't eating more than 3-4 meals per day. If he has a huge belly, the chances are he's eating a lot of junk foods. Eating junk isn't the type of calorie surplus will build muscle so what the example given wasn't contrary to anything I suggested.

Construction workers are typically strong guys, most anyway, but that situation can be read as stereotypical and like saying "basketball players are tall". The lightweight powerlifters and youtube lifters that can bench more weight than me yet are smaller than me is a sterling example of how a calorie surplus isn't necessarily needed to get stronger. It's needed to get bigger, but not stronger.

If stronger meant bigger, then someone stronger than you would automatically be bigger.
 
doing a great job gymrat.

I dont have the inclination nor the energy to sustain an argument only to reiterate all the valid points you have made.

Reps are coming your way.
 
I'll take your word for it and use it for comparision. On your myspace it has a pic of you benching 255, so lets say we only compare you to people with the same LBM as you. Even at 10%bf that'd be comparing again 165 pounds. 255 @ 165 is commendable not going to get a negative comment from anyone. You said you've seen people do double you at half your size, well even at your size how many people do oyu know at 165@10%bf benching 500? None. How many people do you know with 230pounds of LBM @ 10% (253pds) benching 500? ALOT of people. Size (LBM) DOES make a HUGE difference in how much weight is lifted. Thats my opinion at least.
 
h0other said:
I'll take your word for it and use it for comparision. On your myspace it has a pic of you benching 255, so lets say we only compare you to people with the same LBM as you. Even at 10%bf that'd be comparing again 165 pounds. 255 @ 165 is commendable not going to get a negative comment from anyone. You said you've seen people do double you at half your size, well even at your size how many people do oyu know at 165@10%bf benching 500? None. How many people do you know with 230pounds of LBM @ 10% (253pds) benching 500? ALOT of people. Size (LBM) DOES make a HUGE difference in how much weight is lifted. Thats my opinion at least.
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My MySpace pic of 255 is an old pic. There's a new video in my workout log of 265. My current 1RM is 275, I'd be more than happy to provide video proof the next time I max.

It was a figure of speech with the double my bench press, although I have seen guys much smaller than me (160 pounds) bench pressing 315 and etc. I saw one kid that weighed 175 pounds bench pressing 405 for a single. Surely because his CNS is more efficient. He wasn't that big of a kid, not that he was small, just wasn't what you'd expect when you hear of someone bench pressing 405.
 
h0other said:
How many people do you know with 230pounds of LBM @ 10% (253pds) benching 500? ALOT of people. Size (LBM) DOES make a HUGE difference in how much weight is lifted. Thats my opinion at least.
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I never said a big guy won't be strong, I'm just saying that smaller guys that are not in a calorie surplus are strong too.

A person 230 pounds will usually be able to handle more weight than someone whom weighs 160 seeing he has a more efficient bone structure and his joints would be able to take more optimal weight.
 
So you saw ONE kid at 175 pounds benching 405. How many people at 225 could you find benching 405? Sure there are genetic monsters who can put up some crazy weights and noone knows how, but for the mainstream weightlifter, LBM is what puts up these big numbers.
 
More efficient bone structure? Joints? How does muscle add anything to your bone structure or joints? Smaller doesnt mean your not in the calorie surplus either. There are factors you are not including such as how long you've lifted. I was 150 pounds 4 years ago eating 4000 calories a day so finally I wouldn't be small for the first time in my life. Alot of it is <b>consistency</b> and <b>time</b>.
 
h0other said:
So you saw ONE kid at 175 pounds benching 405. How many people at 225 could you find benching 405? Sure there are genetic monsters who can put up some crazy weights and noone knows how, but for the mainstream weightlifter, LBM is what puts up these big numbers.
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As stated above, a person whom is 225 at 10% bodyfat will usually be stronger than someone at 10% bodyfat that weighs 160. Seeing that is a bigger guy, usually he will be taller if it's that much of a difference, his bone frame and joints can handle a heavier workload.

Lightweight powerlifters alone are sterling examples of how you can get strong without the calorie surplus. Even a calorie surplus alone doesn't mean you will gain acceptable hypertrophy, your rest, routine, source of training, etc. will all factor in how much total size you gain. Form is extremely important, too.
 
h0other said:
More efficient bone structure? Joints? How does muscle add anything to your bone structure or joints? Smaller doesnt mean your not in the calorie surplus either. There are factors you are not including such as how long you've lifted. I was 150 pounds 4 years ago eating 4000 calories a day so finally I wouldn't be small for the first time in my life. Alot of it is <b>consistency</b> and <b>time</b>.
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If someone is eating over their maintenance, they should indeed be gaining weight. I'll use one of my friends as an example. We are both 5'7" and he weighs about 160. His bench is 295 and mine is only 275. He trains consistently, but has absolutely no nutritional plan at all, he eats whenever he's hungry and whatever he's craving at the time.

Just because someone is 225 pounds and the other is 160 doesn't mean one is going to have a higher LBM. If he the guys is used to carrying around 225 on his bones and the other is going to be used to carrying 160 pounds on his bones, naturally the bigger guy is going to have a more efficient bone structure.

Arnolds personal best bench was 455 pounds, yet there are powerlifters smaller than him that can bench more and Arnold had a higher LBM.

It is harder for someone to bench 100 pounds over their bodyweight than rep their bodyweight. For example, a person that weighs 160 pounds and reps 225 for 8-10 reps on bench is highly impressive. A person that weighs 225 and benches 225 for 8-10 reps on bench is impressive too, but for the fact that the other guy is benching 65 pounds more than he weighs for the same total reps than the guy working out with only his bodyweight makes it more impressive. So naturally the guy that weighs more would have an optimal shot at adding more weight easier.

A good example in this thread was how Buster pointed out he was bigger than the guy that started his thread yet the guy that started this thread was stronger than Buster, the two were the exact same height and weight.
 
I'd rather be shorter if I was a powerlifter.

Form should be implemented in you from when you begin working out lifting virtually nothing. That way it gets in your muscle memory and you pretty mch feel wrong not doing that from then on out.

I think we actually agree on more than we realize we just like arguing over the things we dont lol. Gets you thinking though.

How long you been lifting for Gym? You almost in a way remind me of a younger version of me from looking at your pics and the progressions you've made.
 
There are definitely exceptions to all rules. People lift differently, have different feelings on what constitutes a rep. That's why these arguments are tough to stand by regardless of what side you are on. Both sides can come up with examples of why they are right.


GymRat7197 said:
If someone is eating over their maintenance, they should indeed be gaining weight. I'll use one of my friends as an example. We are both 5'7" and he weighs about 160. His bench is 295 and mine is only 275. He trains consistently, but has absolutely no nutritional plan at all, he eats whenever he's hungry and whatever he's craving at the time.

Just because someone is 225 pounds and the other is 160 doesn't mean one is going to have a higher LBM. If he the guys is used to carrying around 225 on his bones and the other is going to be used to carrying 160 pounds on his bones, naturally the bigger guy is going to have a more efficient bone structure.

Arnolds personal best bench was 455 pounds, yet there are powerlifters smaller than him that can bench more and Arnold had a higher LBM.

It is harder for someone to bench 100 pounds over their bodyweight than rep their bodyweight. For example, a person that weighs 160 pounds and reps 225 for 8-10 reps on bench is highly impressive. A person that weighs 225 and benches 225 for 8-10 reps on bench is impressive too, but for the fact that the other guy is benching 65 pounds more than he weighs for the same total reps than the guy working out with only his bodyweight makes it more impressive. So naturally the guy that weighs more would have an optimal shot at adding more weight easier.

A good example in this thread was how Buster pointed out he was bigger than the guy that started his thread yet the guy that started this thread was stronger than Buster, the two were the exact same height and weight.
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How long you been lifting for Gym? You almost in a way remind me of a younger version of me from looking at your pics and the progressions you've made.
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I started lifting seriously my senior year of high school, which was 2005. I started at 125 pounds about 14% bodyfat and benched 145 as a max. When I graduated in June, 1 year later, I was 175 pounds at 19% bodyfat with a 255 pound bench press. I took my freshman year of college off and my bodyweight jumped up to 185. I recently started training seriously again about 6 months ago and I've managed to gain a personal best bench at 275, I increased my bodyweight to 205 but then cut down to reduce bodyfat. My first cutting phase will be next year around January after I've developed an exceptional base of strength.
 
I'm a short guy at 5'7". During my childhood it appeared that I would be a big guy, around 6'0". I was always tall in my class until I hit high school and just stopped growing. I got made fun of a lot, especially by my girlfriends that I had previously family. So I decided to start working out, I always watched a lot of Vin Diesel movies and stuff and always wanted to be big like that someday. I'll continue to gain loads of mass until I'm ready to cut down to about 170 and be around 10% body fat. All natural 8-).
 
Yeah man, we're pretty similiar in that regard.

When I graduated highschool I was about 5'11 140. I've always hated not knowing that I could be in control of my enviroment due to problems when I was very young and at 140 you really cant be. From the time I was 19 til now at 23 i've been as consistent as you can be in the gym. The problem I ran into was I began measuring my results on the scale and it began making me go crazy. If I didnt gain weight that week i'd wonder what went wrong and throw a ton of food in my mouth. This led to a pretty severe case of body dysmorphia and WAY to much time spent reading on this stuff. Just make sure lifting is kept fun to you and as a stress reliever. That in my opinion is the best purpose of lifting. This may be a big waste of time to read but I tried lol..
 
I was going to tape my 300 pound press today but i failed half way up. Last time i warmed up and went straight to it but this time i warmed up and went too 225, 275 first. I also go a sore arm so Ill try it again Friday. Its not something i can do all the time! But i did get up 135 25 times that is a PR up from 20!!! I also found out that running suicides after a heavy leg day really hurts. I'll tape the bench Friday pass or fail. The deads every week seem to be helping, I'm up 6 pounds in 3 weeks. Also guys think about the fact of me having more power then others on here my size, I have been lifting on and off for around 7 years. When i took 6 months off last year i jumped back in with a 205 max, before the unwanted break i was at 265. So over the last year i didnt have far to go and it came back fast.
 
Navyrigger said:
I was going to tape my 300 pound press today but i failed half way up. Last time i warmed up and went straight to it but this time i warmed up and went too 225, 275 first. I also go a sore arm so Ill try it again Friday. Its not something i can do all the time! But i did get up 135 25 times that is a PR up from 20!!! I also found out that running suicides after a heavy leg day really hurts. I'll tape the bench Friday pass or fail. The deads every week seem to be helping, I'm up 6 pounds in 3 weeks. Also guys think about the fact of me having more power then others on here my size, I have been lifting on and off for around 7 years. When i took 6 months off last year i jumped back in with a 205 max, before the unwanted break i was at 265. So over the last year i didnt have far to go and it came back fast.
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Ill be checking back in friday...i hope to see it. (seriously)

H0other, i really am hardly on this forum anymore, it tends to be to much of this pety bickering and alot of the guys who were here when i got here who knew TONS from hands on experience or had science articles and studies to back them are gone...sadly.

So i liek to sit back and watch things like this, i just dont like when someone like to be "the one" and run the show when they clearly arent ready or go about it liek an a$$. As much as you love yourself and theory about arguing working, you wouldnt need it if you had the patience and basic facts or points ready to be made.

Also, proce to me youre bigger, faster, stronger whatever...but i still wont care. I'd be willing to bet i am a bit better than you at this point.

As far as the pic goes, sorry you can get a good picture of me to stare at.... i never seen a tannign booth that was blue? but they call it a negative. But youre so smart you prolly knew that...
 
GymRat7197 said:
Simply not true. Strength doesn't mean size, if that were the case there wouldn't be two types of hypertrophy

Gaining size is completely in the nutrition, it has less to do with the weight, reps, routine, etc. but more in the nutrition. Someone isn't required to get bigger just because they're getting stronger. If you kept to a low calorie diet and you lifted heavy in the meantime. Of course you'd get stronger, but instead of producing new muscle, your body will begin to use the muscle it has more efficiently (think lightweight powerlifters here).
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when the body begins to use the muscle "more effciently" ...would this also mean the muscles are probably harder as well. than say someone who is bigger but lifts less....cuz if so that makes sense
 
I honestly dont think or care to be the one, I just like helping people who are starting out in the bodybuilding game so that it wont take them as long to learn the basics as it did me. Imagine how much quicker teenagers who begin working out could get bigger if they had a trainer/dietician to help them. I know it would have done WONDERS for me.
 
orangutan said:
when the body begins to use the muscle "more effciently" ...would this also mean the muscles are probably harder as well. than say someone who is bigger but lifts less....cuz if so that makes sense
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Hardening of the muscle (I would imagine) would feel harder when bodyfat is decreased, after all, it's bodyfat that is "soft" muscle is hard ;-). When your bodyfat out weighs your muscle mass, that's when IMO you would have potential for a soft density.
 
h0other said:
I honestly dont think or care to be the one, I just like helping people who are starting out in the bodybuilding game so that it wont take them as long to learn the basics as it did me. Imagine how much quicker teenagers who begin working out could get bigger if they had a trainer/dietician to help them. I know it would have done WONDERS for me.
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i understand what ur saying on this one...however i think the biggest challenge with a teenager is detication. there was just so much goin on in life back then between school/partying...that being said i was kinda shy/outkast so training was more often for me. but if i could of taken it all back for a better social life i wouldve, in a second
 
Navyrigger said:
I was going to tape my 300 pound press today but i failed half way up. Last time i warmed up and went straight to it but this time i warmed up and went too 225, 275 first. I also go a sore arm so Ill try it again Friday. Its not something i can do all the time! But i did get up 135 25 times that is a PR up from 20!!! I also found out that running suicides after a heavy leg day really hurts. I'll tape the bench Friday pass or fail. The deads every week seem to be helping, I'm up 6 pounds in 3 weeks. Also guys think about the fact of me having more power then others on here my size, I have been lifting on and off for around 7 years. When i took 6 months off last year i jumped back in with a 205 max, before the unwanted break i was at 265. So over the last year i didnt have far to go and it came back fast.
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What are you smoking LAME
 
Who cares what he says he can squat/dl/bench? It could be true, it might not. If you think he can, then congratulate him. If not then ask for proof or say nothing at all. No need to waste your life arguing with him about whether or not he can.
 
Navyrigger said:
What are smoking fat boy
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I'm sorry for the misunderstanding I went back to the first page and looked at your stats and your pictures showing your breast and said to myself she looks a hot mess I hope you get those taking care of little lady
 
It might not need to but I am allowed to ask. I never said it had to make sense to me did I champ? Sure didn't. You put a needle in the wrong butt cheek today or something, sounds like you may be pmsing. :)
 
h0other said:
It might not need to but I am allowed to ask. I never said it had to make sense to me did I champ? Sure didn't. You put a needle in the wrong butt cheek today or something, sounds like you may be pmsing. :)
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sigh... then why did you ask in the first place? :dunno:

And btw I don't shoot up.
 
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To see if I was missing something. Is that ok with you or shall I msg you before each message I post to make sure?
 
But it did involve you? I did not know what they were talking about so it could of involved me for all I know. Why did you feel the need to jump into this thread acting like the king of Anabolic Minds? At least what I wrote was about the thread instead of spouting out on some outside rant trying to pretend to be a hard ass to someone you wouldn't say a peep to in person. Really if you had a problem with what I said you should of msged me and told me instead of adding 5 more meaningless responses in this thread. I guess that 11 rep power is getting to your head and you think you are the man now? Now go annoy someone else. :wave2:


fenderman said:
But it didn't even involve you man lmao! omg this is too much
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h0other said:
But it did involve you? I did not know what they were talking about so it could of involved me for all I know. Why did you feel the need to jump into this thread acting like the king of Anabolic Minds? At least what I wrote was about the thread instead of spouting out on some outside rant trying to pretend to be a hard ass to someone you wouldn't say a peep to in person. Really if you had a problem with what I said you should of msged me and told me instead of adding 5 more meaningless responses in this thread. I guess that 11 rep power is getting to your head and you think you are the man now? Now go annoy someone else. :wave2:
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Whoa that's pretty lengthy man, I'll just PM you about it. I don't want to hijack the thread or anything
 
better pics
 

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Thanks bro but i'm pushing about 175 now. The heavy compound 5x5 is paying off and so are the heavy deads. My legs are starting to grow to. I took some pics of the legs but they are so white right now you cant see any definition. I'll get some sun on them soon i hope. A tan always makes you look alittle bigger!
 
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