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The Perfect PCT

Would you say that Formex is similar to Epistane? They are both Aromatose Inhibitors, but Epistane also acts like a SERM ....

How would you compare the AI properties of both and the androgenic properties of both? I guess Formex gives more free test because it lowers SHBG....
 
0g1 said:
What do you think of my first S-Roid (superdrol clone) cyle? 10/20/30 s-roid + 50/50/25 Formex + Nettle. PCT 25/25/25 Formex + 3/3/3 caps Diesel Test Hardcore. No SERM.

I was thinking the Nettle will help stop the test binding to SHBG and the Formex will reduce the SHBG. So lots of free test!

I'm 190lbs 5'10", 27yo.
Click to expand...


I have never run Superdrol just Epi, 1-t, Dermacrine and others but from what I hear, 30 mgs per day is super powerful and probably you should do something alot milder if this is your first cycle all together....not sure if it is!
 
luclyluciano said:
I have never run Superdrol just Epi, 1-t, Dermacrine and others but from what I hear, 30 mgs per day is super powerful and probably you should do something alot milder if this is your first cycle all together....not sure if it is!
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think I will just do 10/10/20 with the 20 split in two 12 hours apart.
 
Hey, I was reading about Formestane and I read that "4-hydroxyandrostenedione converts to 4-hydroxytestosterone in the human body could cause HPTA (Hypothalamic Pituitary Testes Axis) suppression". Is this true?

nattydisaster said:
Epi isn't an AI, it just has anti-estrogen-like properties.
Click to expand...
Ahh, I see. It binds to the receptors, doesn't decrease estrogen. Specifically, the breast tissue ERB receptor. Kills the breast cells and prevents them from forming. Also, Epi binds to the receptors on the stem cells near the muscles and tells them to convert to muscle cells instead of fat cells. Epi is all about the receptor binding. Formestane is all about lowering estrogen and increasing free test.
 
0g1 said:
Hey, I was reading about Formestane and I read that "4-hydroxyandrostenedione converts to 4-hydroxytestosterone in the human body could cause HPTA (Hypothalamic Pituitary Testes Axis) suppression". Is this true?
Click to expand...

Only at extremely high doses. Not at doses you should be taking. It would be like throwing a match into a burning house and say the match made the fire worse.
 
Ahh I see. I did a bit more reading and found that the estrogen reduction actually tells the brain to make more test (so it would make the gonads bigger). But it is a very weak prohormone. So you need to really take a HUGE amount to have formestane act as a enough strong prohormone to overcome its strong AI properties (you only need to take a small amount to reduce most estrogen).
nicemuscle.com/formastat-80175.htm

Do you know when Nutraplanet is getting the Formex?
 
0g1 said:
Ahh I see. I did a bit more reading and found that the estrogen reduction actually tells the brain to make more test (so it would make the gonads bigger). But it is a very weak prohormone. So you need to really take a HUGE amount to have formestane act as a enough strong prohormone to overcome its strong AI properties (you only need to take a small amount to reduce most estrogen).
nicemuscle.com/formastat-80175.htm

Do you know when Nutraplanet is getting the Formex?
Click to expand...

They should have it next week. We have been getting the stocks out this week.

coolbreeze said:
Is this true? I never read that anywhere before so guess I am clueless - can you provide a citation for this?
Click to expand...

I'm not going to vouch for the statement, but I am on TRT and my doctor claims at a TRT dose you do not get shut down but it actually supplements your natural levels. Once you hit a certain dosage (it's different for everyone), you will suppress your natural production.
 
Yeah, this is my perfect SD cycle:
Pre-cycle: 500g milk thistle 3 days before, 1/2 caps Divanex 2 weeks before, 25/25 Formex 2 weeks before (I assume it will take about 2 weeks for the SHBG to decrease)
On-Cycle:
10/10/20 S-Roid (SD), 25/25/50 Formex, 500g/500g/500g milk thistle, 2/2/2 caps Divanex.
and Post Cycle:
50/50/25 Formex, 3/2/1 caps Diesel Test Hardcore

I will be taking my 2 Now Adam Tablets which have a decent amount of Saw Palmetto in every day like always. Not sure if I will continue with the Formex after PCT but will see how effective it is in the first 2 weeks pre-cycle.
 
0g1 said:
Yeah, this is my perfect SD cycle:
Pre-cycle: 500g milk thistle 3 days before, 1/2 caps Divanex 2 weeks before, 25/25 Formex 2 weeks before (I assume it will take about 2 weeks for the SHBG to decrease)
On-Cycle:
10/10/20 S-Roid (SD), 25/25/50 Formex, 500g/500g/500g milk thistle, 2/2/2 caps Divanex.
and Post Cycle:
50/50/25 Formex, 3/2/1 caps Diesel Test Hardcore

I will be taking my 2 Now Adam Tablets which have a decent amount of Saw Palmetto in every day like always. Not sure if I will continue with the Formex after PCT but will see how effective it is in the first 2 weeks pre-cycle.
Click to expand...

Looks good!
 
nattydisaster said:
Here is what I have created for the idea of two of the best possible PCT's. Doing this will help everyone will keep the most from their gains possible, and have the smoothest transition back into the "natural state", and prevent crashing, as well as quickly repair your lipid panel.

The more you put into PCT the more you retain. Cut it short and you'll regret it.

1) With a SERM:

Needed: 1 bottle IBE Formex, 1 month supply of a SERM, 1 bottle AI PCS/CS

(Clomid or Toremifene may be used in place of Tamoxifene)

Tamoxifene = nolva

Week 1: Tamoxifene 40mg, IBE Formex 50mg, [CS]*
Week 2: Tamoxifene 40mg, IBE Formex 50mg, [CS]
Week 3: Tamoxifene 20mg, IBE Formex 25mg, [CS]
Week 4: Tamoxifene 20mg, IBE Formex 25mg, [CS]

Use CS to help get your lipid panel back in check, or PCS. I like CS in this PCT.

2) Without a SERM[/B]

Needed: 1 bottles IBE Formex, 1 bottle AI Cycle Support/PCS

Not everyone can get SERMs. This method is not as good as above, but is still much better than nothing.

Week 1: IBE Formex 50mg, AI Cycle Support,
Week 2: IBE Formex 50mg, AI Cycle Support,
Week 3: IBE Formex 25mg, AI Cycle Support,
Week 4: IBE Formex 25mg, AI Cycle Support,
Click to expand...

Great post, but what about running 500ius qd of HCG for 7 days then the last
7 days with 250ius?
Week 1: 500ius subq, IBE Formex 50mg
Week 2: 250ius subq, IBE Formex 50mg
Week 3: IBE Formex 25mg
Week 4: IBE Formex 25mg
How does that sound coming from running test e with equipoise 300 and 200 respectively for 10 weeks? I have a little shrinkage going on but not that much since I am running a low dose of test e with eq. But I am not taking any chances of water and fat retention after. I went with HCG because of the ease to dose and its more effectiveness for stimulating the testes than nolva. I wanted to run some T3 with it but cant seem to get my hands on any, but I think with the combination of low test e and very minimal shutdown going on I will be fine with HCG and the OTC Formex. Your opinion?
 
Planning on starting my first epi cycle soon. Wanna get my pct all bought and ready first though. Can you point me in the direction where I can get Formex or is it still not out yet? And if its not going to be out for a while, what should I go with? Havent had any luck finding SERMS, so would probably have to be over the counter.

Thanks for any help.
 
medicone said:
Great post, but what about running 500ius qd of HCG for 7 days then the last
7 days with 250ius?
Week 1: 500ius subq, IBE Formex 50mg
Week 2: 250ius subq, IBE Formex 50mg
Week 3: IBE Formex 25mg
Week 4: IBE Formex 25mg
How does that sound coming from running test e with equipoise 300 and 200 respectively for 10 weeks? I have a little shrinkage going on but not that much since I am running a low dose of test e with eq. But I am not taking any chances of water and fat retention after. I went with HCG because of the ease to dose and its more effectiveness for stimulating the testes than nolva. I wanted to run some T3 with it but cant seem to get my hands on any, but I think with the combination of low test e and very minimal shutdown going on I will be fine with HCG and the OTC Formex. Your opinion?
Click to expand...

Yea you would be fine. I made the thread with assumption that people don't have access to HCG ;)
 
Trinstop said:
Planning on starting my first epi cycle soon. Wanna get my pct all bought and ready first though. Can you point me in the direction where I can get Formex or is it still not out yet? And if its not going to be out for a while, what should I go with? Havent had any luck finding SERMS, so would probably have to be over the counter.

Thanks for any help.
Click to expand...

Smart man right here. ALWAYS have your pct ready BEFORE your cycle starts. Formex should be in stock at Nutra either Friday or Monday ;)
 
im trying to go completely otc after a cycle of tren extreme

how does aPCT compare to Post Cycle Support by AI ...are they interchangeable?

also i have formestane on hand, would it be better to run this for my entire pct or from weeks 1-3 or 3-6?

im also planning on taking

max green synergy or cycle support
liver support
trans resveratrol
I3C

i think the resveratrol, I3C, and the formestane would be sufficient in controlling estrogren but how would the aPCT and PCS workin getting my natural test back? im thining about adding in a natty test booster as well
 
ato ucf said:
im trying to go completely otc after a cycle of tren extreme

how does aPCT compare to Post Cycle Support by AI ...are they interchangeable?

also i have formestane on hand, would it be better to run this for my entire pct or from weeks 1-3 or 3-6?

im also planning on taking

max green synergy or cycle support
liver support
trans resveratrol
I3C

i think the resveratrol, I3C, and the formestane would be sufficient in controlling estrogren but how would the aPCT and PCS workin getting my natural test back? im thining about adding in a natty test booster as well
Click to expand...

Cycle support is far superior to max green synergy in terms of on cycle supplement products. I would use Post Cycle Support and Formex for your PCT.
 
nattydisaster said:
Isnt that the one with 3 prohormones in it? I would use Formex + Nolva + Cycle Support (maybe an extra scoop for spawn)
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be careful with nolva, spawn has epi and tren which are both progestins (although epi doesnt necesarily act like one). nolva upregulates the progestin receptor which could make you more prone to gyno after a cycle like this.


ive been hearing recently about studies with nolva and clomid causing various forms of cancer. im not sure about the length of time or dose but could anyone shed some light on this?
 
ato ucf said:
be careful with nolva, spawn has epi and tren which are both progestins (although epi doesnt necesarily act like one). nolva upregulates the progestin receptor which could make you more prone to gyno after a cycle like this.


ive been hearing recently about studies with nolva and clomid causing various forms of cancer. im not sure about the length of time or dose but could anyone shed some light on this?
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Yea Spawn is a crazy blend. Toremifene is always a good choice too :)
 
Natty,
I just cruised through this thread and it has me thinking. I am finishing a H-Drol/MMV2 5 week cycle this week. I was going to go with CS and PCS for PCT but Formex as me thinking. I would also have been adding in 6 OXO at day 14 along with a cort supp. as well.

So I guess my question is, where could Formex fit in for me?

Thanks for your advice in advance.
 
this may be a dumb question, but Im planning a Mdrol cycle for later this year, and I know Mdrol is a SD clone, so would I use the same PCT for Mdrol as I would for SD?
 
MATTYO1977 said:
Natty,
I just cruised through this thread and it has me thinking. I am finishing a H-Drol/MMV2 5 week cycle this week. I was going to go with CS and PCS for PCT but Formex as me thinking. I would also have been adding in 6 OXO at day 14 along with a cort supp. as well.

So I guess my question is, where could Formex fit in for me?

Thanks for your advice in advance.
Click to expand...

You can start the formex on cycle and carry it through PCT, or use it just in PCT. You woulnd't need to get 6-oxo. If i were you, I would do a Formex + PCS/CS stack for PCT. You could start the formex a few days before PCT started.

KgTomCat said:
this may be a dumb question, but Im planning a Mdrol cycle for later this year, and I know Mdrol is a SD clone, so would I use the same PCT for Mdrol as I would for SD?
Click to expand...

Yup, sure would.
 
nattydisaster said:
You can start the formex on cycle and carry it through PCT, or use it just in PCT. You woulnd't need to get 6-oxo. If i were you, I would do a Formex + PCS/CS stack for PCT. You could start the formex a few days before PCT started.

I think thats what I may do. I'll check back and keep you informed.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
Guys, now is a good time to stock up on CS and PCS!! Great Price.
Invalid Link Removed
 
wth is serms sorry im new two this and where can i get it?... sooo im on a cycle of trenz xtreme... do i need to buy nolva and formex and take both together?
 
Fredster- the search tool will produce a wealth of info. on SERMs and make sure you read the forum rules about asking where to get a SERM.

You can also check the logs to see if anyone has posted their PCT for the cycle you are running...

Their is a ton of good info. on Anabolic Minds if you take the time to search...
 
About to run my first Havoc cycle, I'm going to run four weeks 20/30/30/40.

I know some people start liver support 1-2 weeks before their cycle. Is there any need for this with Havoc/Epi?

Here is what I'm planning for my cycle & PCT:

Weeks 1-4: Havoc
Weeks 1-4: Taurine
Weeks 1-8: Liv.52
Weeks 1-8: AI Cycle Support
Weeks 5-8: Toremifene or PP's TRS stack (Sustain Alpha, Toco-8, EndoAmp Max)
Weeks 5-8: AI Post Cycle Support
Weeks 5-8: Fromex

I feel like I've got liver support, AI and test booster covered. Correct?

Have I got timing of CS and PCS right?

Is Liv.52 redundant with AT Cycle Support? And do I need to take it all eight weeks?



What about: CoQ10? ZMA? B6? Trib T? 6-oxo? Sesamin? i3c? cissus? These are all things I've seen recommended for PCT but I don't know that they're necessary for Havoc. Would you guys add any of these? Add other components?

Any additional feedback?

I don't know if I'm allowed to ask on this site but if you can PM me with a reliable source for Toremifene I'd greatly appreciate it.

TIA
 
nattydisaster said:
You can start the formex on cycle and carry it through PCT, or use it just in PCT. You woulnd't need to get 6-oxo. If i were you, I would do a Formex + PCS/CS stack for PCT. You could start the formex a few days before PCT started.



I ordered the Formex and PCS this morning. I will be starting at the 50 MG dosage on Monday or possibly as soon as it arrives. The PCS will be run at the label dosages, 2 AM and PM. Can't wait to hold onto what I have gained with this PCT plan.

Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
 
fredster said:
wth is serms sorry im new two this and where can i get it?... sooo im on a cycle of trenz xtreme... do i need to buy nolva and formex and take both together?
Click to expand...

I would just get a bottle of Formex and start is ASAP.

LAGear said:
About to run my first Havoc cycle, I'm going to run four weeks 20/30/30/40.

I know some people start liver support 1-2 weeks before their cycle. Is there any need for this with Havoc/Epi?

Here is what I'm planning for my cycle & PCT:

Weeks 1-4: Havoc
Weeks 1-4: Taurine
Weeks 1-8: Liv.52
Weeks 1-8: AI Cycle Support
Weeks 5-8: Toremifene or PP's TRS stack (Sustain Alpha, Toco-8, EndoAmp Max)
Weeks 5-8: AI Post Cycle Support
Weeks 5-8: Fromex

I feel like I've got liver support, AI and test booster covered. Correct?

Have I got timing of CS and PCS right?

Is Liv.52 redundant with AT Cycle Support? And do I need to take it all eight weeks?



What about: CoQ10? ZMA? B6? Trib T? 6-oxo? Sesamin? i3c? cissus? These are all things I've seen recommended for PCT but I don't know that they're necessary for Havoc. Would you guys add any of these? Add other components?

Any additional feedback?

I don't know if I'm allowed to ask on this site but if you can PM me with a reliable source for Toremifene I'd greatly appreciate it.

TIA
Click to expand...

I think your plan is perfect. That is a great cycle outline. You can use Liv.52 and CS. You dont need any of the other supplements you asked about, CoQ10 and etc.

Toremifene is hard to find. If all you can get is Nolva then just go with that.

MATTYO1977 said:
nattydisaster said:
You can start the formex on cycle and carry it through PCT, or use it just in PCT. You woulnd't need to get 6-oxo. If i were you, I would do a Formex + PCS/CS stack for PCT. You could start the formex a few days before PCT started.



I ordered the Formex and PCS this morning. I will be starting at the 50 MG dosage on Monday or possibly as soon as it arrives. The PCS will be run at the label dosages, 2 AM and PM. Can't wait to hold onto what I have gained with this PCT plan.

Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...

That sounds perfect ;)
Click to expand...
 
Anyone have any suggestions about what else to take with Formex and PCS. I have seen someone mention Diesel Test. I myself have used PowerFull( w/Nolva) in the past and thought it was great but that was over two years ago.
 
2) Without a SERM

Needed: 1 bottles IBE Formex, 1 bottle AI Cycle Support/PCS

Not everyone can get SERMs. This method is not as good as above, but is still much better than nothing.

Week 1: IBE Formex 50mg, AI Cycle Support (or PCS)
Week 2: IBE Formex 50mg, AI Cycle Support (or PCS)
Week 3: IBE Formex 25mg, AI Cycle Support (or PCS)
Week 4: IBE Formex 25mg, AI Cycle Support (or PCS)[/QUOTE]

Natty, how do you think this would work with a straight-stick 10 week cycle of test e at 500mg/week? Also, while on cycle how would Formex do at minimizing water gain?
 
nattydisaster said:
LAGear said:
About to run my first Havoc cycle, I'm going to run four weeks 20/30/30/40.

I know some people start liver support 1-2 weeks before their cycle. Is there any need for this with Havoc/Epi?

Here is what I'm planning for my cycle & PCT:

Weeks 1-4: Havoc
Weeks 1-4: Taurine
Weeks 1-8: Liv.52
Weeks 1-8: AI Cycle Support
Weeks 5-8: Toremifene or PP's TRS stack (Sustain Alpha, Toco-8, EndoAmp Max)
Weeks 5-8: AI Post Cycle Support
Weeks 5-8: Fromex

I feel like I've got liver support, AI and test booster covered. Correct?

Have I got timing of CS and PCS right?

Is Liv.52 redundant with AT Cycle Support? And do I need to take it all eight weeks?



What about: CoQ10? ZMA? B6? Trib T? 6-oxo? Sesamin? i3c? cissus? These are all things I've seen recommended for PCT but I don't know that they're necessary for Havoc. Would you guys add any of these? Add other components?

Any additional feedback?

I don't know if I'm allowed to ask on this site but if you can PM me with a reliable source for Toremifene I'd greatly appreciate it.

TIA
Click to expand...
I think your plan is perfect. That is a great cycle outline. You can use Liv.52 and CS. You dont need any of the other supplements you asked about, CoQ10 and etc.

Toremifene is hard to find. If all you can get is Nolva then just go with that.
Click to expand...
This next question may seem OT but since we're talking about "perfect PCT" I think it'll go :)

I'm having second thoughts about Sustain Alpha in my PCT because, as a topical, I'm not sure I'm going to be able to consistently apply it as needed. If I decide not to use SA would using HyperTest (instead of SA) plus PCS make a good PCT stack? It seems like HyperTest might work even better with PCS because it has totally different ingredients. Whereas the primary ingredient in PCS and SA is resveratrol so they may be a bit redundant if used together. Would love some input on this.


Natty - Most people advise against using any AI with Havoc/Epi (for example this thread - anabolicminds.com/forum/ibe-technology/104133-epistane-ai.html), but you thought my plan (Formex + Havoc) was perfect. Are these people wrong? I know you're an IBE rep but if someone was going to misuse your product I'd hope you'd inform them of that instead of encouraging them to use it. I am giving you 100% benefit of the doubt here so please explain why you are going against the grain with respect to Formex + Havoc/Epi :)

That being said I may end up using H-drol instead of Havoc in which case most people advise using an AI in PCT.

I've seen quite a few people recommend tapering SERM dosage down while ramping AI dosage up in PCT. Someone asked about this a few posts back and nobody responded. I'd like to hear some advice about this "reverse-taper" protocol including recommended dosage if using Formex + Torem.

Thanks!
 
DecaDone said:
Anyone have any suggestions about what else to take with Formex and PCS. I have seen someone mention Diesel Test. I myself have used PowerFull( w/Nolva) in the past and thought it was great but that was over two years ago.
Click to expand...

Either/both of those ideas would be OK

player said:
2) Without a SERM

Needed: 1 bottles IBE Formex, 1 bottle AI Cycle Support/PCS

Not everyone can get SERMs. This method is not as good as above, but is still much better than nothing.

Week 1: IBE Formex 50mg, AI Cycle Support (or PCS)
Week 2: IBE Formex 50mg, AI Cycle Support (or PCS)
Week 3: IBE Formex 25mg, AI Cycle Support (or PCS)
Week 4: IBE Formex 25mg, AI Cycle Support (or PCS)
Click to expand...

Natty, how do you think this would work with a straight-stick 10 week cycle of test e at 500mg/week? Also, while on cycle how would Formex do at minimizing water gain?[/QUOTE]

I would add a SERM if you are using synthetic testosterone for 10 weeks. I would also be sure to take the Formex both on cycle and in PCT

LAGear said:
This next question may seem OT but since we're talking about "perfect PCT" I think it'll go :)

I'm having second thoughts about Sustain Alpha in my PCT because, as a topical, I'm not sure I'm going to be able to consistently apply it as needed. If I decide not to use SA would using HyperTest (instead of SA) plus PCS make a good PCT stack? It seems like HyperTest might work even better with PCS because it has totally different ingredients. Whereas the primary ingredient in PCS and SA is resveratrol so they may be a bit redundant if used together. Would love some input on this.


Natty - Most people advise against using any AI with Havoc/Epi (for example this thread - anabolicminds.com/forum/ibe-technology/104133-epistane-ai.html), but you thought my plan (Formex + Havoc) was perfect. Are these people wrong? I know you're an IBE rep but if someone was going to misuse your product I'd hope you'd inform them of that instead of encouraging them to use it. I am giving you 100% benefit of the doubt here so please explain why you are going against the grain with respect to Formex + Havoc/Epi :)

That being said I may end up using H-drol instead of Havoc in which case most people advise using an AI in PCT.

I've seen quite a few people recommend tapering SERM dosage down while ramping AI dosage up in PCT. Someone asked about this a few posts back and nobody responded. I'd like to hear some advice about this "reverse-taper" protocol including recommended dosage if using Formex + Torem.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Epistane and formex can be used together but it depends on the user. For instance, if you get dry joints easily and dislike the feeling, you may not want to. If epistane dries you out a lot, you may not want to. If formex dries you out a lot, you may not want to.

For me though, neither dry me out too much, and I can use both of them perfectly. I am dry, yes, but not too dry.

The reverse taper is a fairly new idea that could definitely work. You should give it a go!
 
what does anyone think of a Hdrol/Furaguno cycle...Im thinking
Hdrol-75/100/100/100/125
Furaguno-0/0/0/0/99/99/99
 
hey nattydisaster, i got my hands of Tamoxifene (Nolvadex) in mexico today. i read your post and i was wondering should i take this because for my PCT, i finished a Animal stack a week ago. should i just take the Nolvadex solo due to the fact that i took the Animal stack on it's own about three weeks ago? i used Tren Extreme + HMG (same company) for eight weeks in total. i feel pain in one of my nipples and need to fix this error. any suggestions? thanks for your time.
 
i wouldnt take nolva, chances are its progestin induced gyno which nolva will more than likely make worse. try to get your hands on some clomid and/or cabergoline. if you cant... get p5p, vitex, and 6 bromo those are the best otc products you can get if you are actually getting gyno. i dont know much about formex but you can look into that as well to fix your problem.

btw i hope you didnt just take animal stack for pct... lol
 
ato ucf said:
i wouldnt take nolva, chances are its progestin induced gyno which nolva will more than likely make worse. try to get your hands on some clomid and/or cabergoline. if you cant... get p5p, vitex, and 6 bromo those are the best otc products you can get if you are actually getting gyno. i dont know much about formex but you can look into that as well to fix your problem.

btw i hope you didnt just take animal stack for pct... lol
Click to expand...
Ive read this before; Nolva causing gyno, anyone care to further explain?? :thanks:
 
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